From the archives: English to Finnish translation of Gloranthan names.

[hkokko]

The year is something before 1989 based on last saved timestamp of the word file that will not open any more with Word. With the eagerness of young student I translated then available names for my campaign in Glorantha - a few hundred names. With the maturity that age brings and the growing knowledge of both Glorantha and perhaps English language I might change some names now but as my campaign is on the isles off Pamaltela I will refrain from doing that until I have more time or my campaign returns to Genertela..

https://notesfrompavis.blog/2021/03/20/from-the-archives-glorantha-names-translation-from-english-to-finnish-pre-1989/

Some names would need to be more poetic, some perhaps less. Some would need to be changed as the things we know about Glorantha has increased...  But here it is for all Gloranthaphile friends of Finnish language... 

[Joerg]

Why Heartland (sydänmaa) for Heortland?

[hkokko]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Why Heartland (sydänmaa) for Heortland?

Well, like I said - my knowledge of Glorantha and English is probably larger now than in the student times more than 30 years ago. Cannot recall why I made that decision then, could have been because there were many namebased things. Jonstown could be Jussila , Svenstown could be Svennilä 🙂 if one would go for  real translation but perhaps feeling would be lost. i would do things differently now. Heortinmaa could be one translation that would be quite direct Sydänmaa could be more poetic. Whether you go for direct translation, whimsical or staying true to original text’s atmosphere and tone is a decision one should make. Several years later I took as my last course at University theory of translation and it would have been useful. Even professional translators can do things in very different tactics - this is evident in the first translation of Hobbit and later translation by a different translator. Even more evident in translation of Lorca’s poems from spanish to finnish - two different translators of which only one succeeded in bringing the feeling, evocativeness and tonality of original even somewhere close to original
 

[Brootse]

16 hours ago, Joerg said:

Why Heartland (sydänmaa) for Heortland?

Hah, this is something that I had wondered about too. It was also used in the official translation for the Genertela box. I guess that Heort wasn't mentioned in book sources.

 

15 hours ago, hkokko said:

Well, like I said - my knowledge of Glorantha and English is probably larger now than in the student times more than 30 years ago. Cannot recall why I made that decision then, could have been because there were many namebased things. Jonstown could be Jussila , Svenstown could be Svennilä 🙂 if one would go for  real translation but perhaps feeling would be lost. i would do things differently now. Heortinmaa could be one translation that would be quite direct Sydänmaa could be more poetic. Whether you go for direct translation, whimsical or staying true to original text’s atmosphere and tone is a decision one should make. Several years later I took as my last course at University theory of translation and it would have been useful. Even professional translators can do things in very different tactics - this is evident in the first translation of Hobbit and later translation by a different translator. Even more evident in translation of Lorca’s poems from spanish to finnish - two different translators of which only one succeeded in bringing the feeling, evocativeness and tonality of original even somewhere close to original
 

Swenstown was translated in the Snakepipe Hollow book's map as Ventola. And Jonstown was Joutola, which could perhaps be translated to Slackerville. Iirc Boldhome was Urhola, which would be quite literally Boldhome. The map from the Trollpak was sold separately in Finland, and in it Boldhome was Kotkanpesä, ie. Eagle's Nest. Iirc that was used in the Genertela box too. Eagle's Nest is a somewhat fitting name too, but it carries an unfortunate connotation.

The first translation of The Hobbit has been a source of great mirth in my group, and when we found about it, we started to refer all hobbits and kenders etc. as hoppelit. Jansson's illustrations were great though. https://imgur.com/gallery/njtkL

(click for gallery)

Of particular interest is Gollum's drawing. Iirc his size wasn't specified in The Hobbit, and Jansson drew him rather large.

 

[hkokko]

i think I might nit have the later Finnish translations of books as I do not recall encountering Joutola. would be as fitting as Jussila. both of them may lose something in translation and require further changes - was the originator of Jussila/Jonstown called Jussi or Jon. for other things the basic problem of translation exists - how do you bring the culture connotations that original text might have had. Some of the names sound better in original english but sound archaic or maybe too whimsical when translated ’directly’. This is a forever problem - professional (or very skilled)  translators would be needed with excellent command of original and translated language and good domain knowledge. 

[Lurking Grue]

Ah, a topic close to my heart! I too have been doing my own translations since the late 80's. As I didn't have the then-published Finnish versions (only English ones), I had to forge my own path, so to speak. Some of them I've later changed to the published Finnish ones, but others, like "Kotkanpesä" for Boldhome, I have not. I really don't like that translation, because of its connotations to the real world and because what does Boldhome have to do with eagles anyway? I've used "Urhola" for it and am sticking to it.

Don't be too harsh on yourself, Hannu, there are very good translations in there. Curious that you used the names of Jonstown and Swenstown as is, not translating then at all. I just went with "Joninkylä" and "Sweninkylä". Also, I didn't usually translate any of the names ending in -ford as "kahlaamo", even if it is the literal meaning. Mostly because it doesn't really flow, pardon the pun. I just changed them to use the common place name suffix in Finnish, "-la". For example, Dangerford is "Vaarala". But it is a matter of taste if it is better or not, for sure.

Reading my old notes, I seem to have considered somewhat whimsical translations for e.g. Paps as "Ryntäät", Bagnot as "Laukuton" (I didn't know that the name has a different meaning and was not what it seemed in English), and the best of all Talfort as "Tallinna" (it *is* the literal translation, but would look really out of place in Glorantha, heh). Oh well, whimsy isn't exactly out of place in Glorantha, though. 😉

What have you guys used as a translation for Cragspider? That's something that's been bothering me for years (literally). So far, I've settled on "Rosolukki", but would like to hear your versions.

EDIT: Just to add two, that I just found that I have to share. I quite like Beatpot Aelwrin as "Patakattila Aelwrin". And for something really out there in whimsyland, Gemborg as "Juvelinpori" or "Juvelipori". Must have been drunk when I came up with that. 😄 (Alternatively, it could be "Timanttila" or "Timanttilinna", as well, but where's the fun in that. 😉)

Edited March 25, 2021 by Lurking Grue

[Brootse]

1 hour ago, Lurking Grue said:

Ah, a topic close to my heart! I too have been doing my own translations since the late 80's. As I didn't have the then-published Finnish versions (only English ones), I had to forge my own path, so to speak. Some of them I've later changed to the published Finnish ones, but others, like "Kotkanpesä" for Boldhome, I have not. I really don't like that translation, because of its connotations to the real world and because what does Boldhome have to do with eagles anyway? I've used "Urhola" for it and am sticking to it.

Don't be too harsh on yourself, Hannu, there are very good translations in there. Curious that you used the names of Jonstown and Swenstown as is, not translating then at all. I just went with "Joninkylä" and "Sweninkylä". Also, I didn't usually translate any of the names ending in -ford as "kahlaamo", even if it is the literal meaning. Mostly because it doesn't really flow, pardon the pun. I just changed them to use the common place name suffix in Finnish, "-la". For example, Dangerford is "Vaarala". But it is a matter of taste if it is better or not, for sure.

Reading my old notes, I seem to have considered somewhat whimsical translations for e.g. Paps as "Ryntäät", Bagnot as "Laukuton" (I didn't know that the name has a different meaning and was not what it seemed in English), and the best of all Talfort as "Tallinna" (it *is* the literal translation, but would look really out of place in Glorantha, heh). Oh well, whimsy isn't exactly out of place in Glorantha, though. 😉

What have you guys used as a translation for Cragspider? That's something that's been bothering me for years (literally). So far, I've settled on "Rosolukki", but would like to hear your versions.

EDIT: Just to add two, that I just found that I have to share. I quite like Beatpot Aelwrin as "Patakattila Aelwrin". And for something really out there in whimsyland, Gemborg as "Juvelinpori" or "Juvelipori". Must have been drunk when I came up with that. 😄 (Alternatively, it could be "Timanttila" or "Timanttilinna", as well, but where's the fun in that. 😉)

Rosolukki is a great one! What was Bagnot's etymology?

[Lurking Grue]

I seem to recall that Bagnot had been given some meaning, which had nothing to do with bags, but now I cannot find it. So I'm beginning to doubt myself. Maybe I am confusing it with Dunstop ("Don't Stop"). Anyway, I guess Bagnot is better just left as Bagnot in Finnish as well.

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Lurking Grue said:

I seem to recall that Bagnot had been given some meaning, which had nothing to do with bags, but now I cannot find it. 

Supposedly it was meant to a play on "beg not" as it was to be a place where Arim the Pauper would no longer beg.  But I dunno if this was even true or no..

Edited March 26, 2021 by metcalph

[Nel]

On 3/22/2021 at 12:43 AM, Brootse said:

Eagle's Nest is a somewhat fitting name too, but it carries an unfortunate connotation.

 

I have no problem with Eagle's Nest.
Actually, I didn't understand why that name is so sentitive for you until I recalled a certain nazi building and googled for it.

In that case this shows how we come from different cultural backgrounds.
To me, Eagle's Nest just reminds a mountain hut in Catalonia:
Niu de l'Àliga

It's odd how we carry our real world prejudices to a suposedly neutral and fictional setting.

 

[Lurking Grue]

Just to add to the translations of @hkokko above, here's my own meagre list of translations. These were what I was using in my games in Glorantha over the years. I am making no claims to their accuracy nor to the quality of the translations. They were something I did just for my own use, I never intended to share these, but what the hey.

> The Translations <