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Animals and languages


Brootse

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12 minutes ago, Brootse said:

Firespeech, Beastspeech etc. are also languages of certain animals. But how well can the animals speak the languages?

However well you want them to! 😉

Good example is the talking fish (river priest of Zola Fel) from the RQ2 Pavis set (Temple of Feroda scenario).

I think if they've got anything above 10% they can talk well enough to be understood. 

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3 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

However well you want them to! 😉

Good example is the talking fish (river priest of Zola Fel) from the RQ2 Pavis set (Temple of Feroda scenario).

I think if they've got anything above 10% they can talk well enough to be understood. 

Yeah, but isn't that fish a fully sapient creature, who can speak also normal human languages?

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5 minutes ago, Brootse said:

Yeah, but isn't that fish a fully sapient creature, who can speak also normal human languages?

If the creatures have a Speak language, they are sentient enough to talk at whatever level they are at.

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21 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I think if they've got anything above 10% they can talk well enough to be understood. 

Or well enough to cause confusing but very interesting and fun problems for the adventurers. I have a few players convinced a brother and sister are incestuous based off a fumbled language roll!

 

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... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast!

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56 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Or well enough to cause confusing but very interesting and fun problems for the adventurers. I have a few players convinced a brother and sister are incestuous based off a fumbled language roll!

 

Spoilers, Bill!

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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4 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Why, my table never reads my posts and pay attention. Sides they are all too good as role-players!

 

Oh my... you are mistaken again... is the matter of the table not able to speak German... maybe is from Sweden... or some place in Central America.

Have you tried morse on the table... maybe you can find a way to communicate with your table... !!!

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Just now, FungusColombicus said:

Oh my... you are mistaken again... is the matter of the table not able to speak German... maybe is from Sweden... or some place in Central America.

Don’t tell Joerg he can’t speak German, he might take it personal like.

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... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast!

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51 minutes ago, Monty Lovering said:

They don't have INT, they might understand something but replying? 

A dog will sit but won't be be able to tell you a party of 5 Llama riders passed this way five hours ago. But 'Llama riders pass since last sleep'? Maybe.

 

mmm not sure

a dog is able to understand if the "thing" in front of it is human or dog, so maybe it is able to show that the beasts (more than 2 but less than a big troop) are like the llama you have and not like the bison you have. But of course, if you have no llama to show it, it will be difficult to define if it is a llama, an impala or an horse.

It is probably able to decide that is not a lizard or a rhino, by some distinct characteristic (blood, armor...)

 

 

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1 hour ago, Monty Lovering said:

They don't have INT, they might understand something but replying

In prior RQ3, most animals have what you'd call a "fixed" INT (e.g. a dog would have an INT of 5).  With the shift back to RQ2 style in RQG, they've simply removed INT.  Animals without INT may understand things and be directed (e.g. that's what Understand Herd Beasts is used for), but will not be able to talk.

But there are representative animals within each species which do have INT and those animals can potentially speak in a relevant language.

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9 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Animals without INT may understand things and be directed (e.g. that's what Understand Herd Beasts is used for), but will not be able to talk.

I think that with the good spell or language you can discuss a little.

I would play animals who have INT as animal able to have human-like conversation (understand concepts, names, numbers, etc) when animal without INT (I loved the fixed Int concept) as animale able to communicate in their own interests (food, hurt, odor, danger, etc...)

A dog would be able to make a difference between bear and man (legs) or between bear and rabit (danger or food) or between 1 or 3 or a lot (but not able if they are 7 or 8 or 9)

But you would need a lot of questions to determine if the dog meet a horse or a impala (the dog should be able to see the difference but in its referential, very different from ours, so the human questions would probably have no sense for it)

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37 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

mmm not sure

a dog is able to understand if the "thing" in front of it is human or dog, so maybe it is able to show that the beasts (more than 2 but less than a big troop) are like the llama you have and not like the bison you have. But of course, if you have no llama to show it, it will be difficult to define if it is a llama, an impala or an horse.

It is probably able to decide that is not a lizard or a rhino, by some distinct characteristic (blood, armor...)

Dogs are much more scent-driven than visual creatures.
I would expect any dog to be able to recognize (by scent) any species they had recently met.
I'd also expect them to recognize any species which they knew well from repeated meetings in the past.

I don't expect they could communicate a concept like "rider" though -- humans + llamas, OK; but not humans riding llamas ("rider" is, after all, a humanocetric thing, I don't expect Beastspeach has a "word" for it).  Humans would have to go look at tracks/etc to determine if it was "Llama Riders" or humans leading llamas (such as a pack-train) or etc.
 

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33 minutes ago, g33k said:

Dogs are much more scent-driven than visual creatures.
I would expect any dog to be able to recognize (by scent) any species they had recently met.
I'd also expect them to recognize any species which they knew well from repeated meetings in the past.

yes absolutly, but as i said, scent is not a good referential for us.

and they (the dog or the pc) will not be able to make easily any relationship between the scent "described" by the dog and the "shape" described by the pc. A troll may have some advantage here!

 

in fact the question is not "is the dog able to recognize something" or "are the dog and the pv able to communicate" but more "are the dog and the pc able to define an efficient communication"

this efficiency could be mesured by the beast rune from the pc

 

it could be interesting to mix dice and rp: i

f the question is too ... human, there is a big malus,

if the question is really basic (2 legs or 4 legs ?) or very animal oriented (same animal than your last prey I'm seeing the skull here ? are you able to hunt it alone,etc...) no malus for example

then the roll would be your beast speech / spell / ability improved by your beast rune

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I have a sentient dog NPC who is a shaman of Brother Dog and who speaks Firespeech at 15%, probably about the best a doggy voice box can handle.

I am giving him a “Smell Hidden” skill, which just seems appropriate given how dogs are generally terrible at “Spot Hidden” (or even spot obvious for that matter), but their noses are amazing.  Great for avoiding ambushes.  Broos are apparently especially fetid.

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30 minutes ago, GMKen said:

Broos are apparently especially fetid.

Until you get one with the Chaotic feature: "Appears to be a harmless creature or object until engaged in melee" (in this case, has a harmless scent).

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Luckily you don’t tend to find broos alone, but rather marauding in small groups.

Plus, any player worth his pedantry would argue that appearance is strictly visual thing and wouldn’t be relevant to smell.

Besides, Phideaux isn’t out looking for Broos.  He’s an enforcer making sure that the locals are respecting the Brother Dog/Foundchild covenants.  Balazarings can of course speak with dogs due to their close bonds, but Phideaux has managed to eke out what is basically a Scooby-Do level of ability in Firespeech. (Ruh-Roh...Groo!)

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/31/2021 at 9:46 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

mmm not sure

a dog is able to understand if the "thing" in front of it is human or dog, so maybe it is able to show that the beasts (more than 2 but less than a big troop) are like the llama you have and not like the bison you have. But of course, if you have no llama to show it, it will be difficult to define if it is a llama, an impala or an horse.

It is probably able to decide that is not a lizard or a rhino, by some distinct characteristic (blood, armor...)

 

 

Dogs can differentiate between sheep, horses, cattle, rabbits, birds... so if it's in an environment where the creature is known, it'll know what it is. Doesn't;t need to see one.

Their counting is rudimentary. My bitch knows she has puppies. She has no idea how many. When we change the bedding in the whelping box and have out all the puppies back in the fresh whelping box she will check the blanket we put it in unless we wave it in the air and show her there are no puppies in it.

But if a dog gets to use non-dog language on a regular basis then it can learn a lot.

https://www.theverge.com/21557375/bunny-the-dog-talks-researchers-animal-cognition-language-tiktok

Bunny recently came up with "I dog", and then the next day asked "Why dog?".

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20 minutes ago, Monty Lovering said:

Dogs can differentiate between sheep, horses, cattle, rabbits, birds... so if it's in an environment where the creature is known, it'll know what it is. Doesn't;t need to see one.

yes but my point is: how do you share with the dog the same notion.

 

Is a dog (... or a human....) knowing cattle but not bison able to understand that what the human is asking is not a cattle / a big cattle / the biggest cattle the dog know but something like a cattle but different

What about a dog knowing no cattle and no bison.

And if a dog knows both bison and cattle, is it able to understand that for the human in front of it, there is a difference between a cattle and a bison. The dog knows the difference, in its referential (odor or ... I don't  know I am human) so no problem to discuss with another dog sharing the same referential, but with an unknown human (our adventurers) .

Of course depending on what a dog master may have teach to the dog (or the mirror sentence) it may be understood

==> Important point I talk about human vs beast, not hunshen.. Of course Telmori (human shape/ wolf shape) have the same referential
 

 

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