Solar Campaign

[None]

42 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Yes, there is even a HeroForming spell in the RQG Rulebook, Call Founder.

That's not what I meant as that spell summons a separate entity in a separate body.

 

You're making me doubt my memory here but I'm confident that the Heroforming from Hero Quest that I'm talking about that you yourself transform into a limited aspect of your deity.

Essentially invoking an extremely small scale Heroquest, giving you the abilituy to perfom said god's deed even if normaly beyond your physical capability. The limitation being that you bind yourself to acting as the deity in question did in that small mythical instance.

 

(I.e. the Ernalda version I mentioned allows you to make large swaths of the earth ferile simply by you being carried, or riding if you want to push it, past it.

You must however be pregnant and you must imitate Ernalda traveling throughout the land.)

Edited April 23, 2021 by None

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, None said:

You're making me doubt my memory here but I'm confident that the Heroforming from Hero Quest that I'm talking about that you yourself transform into a limited aspect of your deity.

That's what you do each time you cast Rune spells, or successfully get inspired based on your deity's Runes.

HQG had some specific aspects around this (e.g. Feats) which brought you closer to your god, more attuned to your god.

This is represented in RQG in several ways.  First, by progressing to become a Rune-level practitioner of your cult, you are embodying the skills and magics (and Runes) of your god.

Second, by performing the ritual practices, worship ceremonies, and devotions to your god, you are instilling yourself with the ways, practices, and passions of your deity.

Third, you can undertake heroquests that allow you to further reflect and attune yourself as your deity.  However, to best achieve these, you want to have the skills, Runes, magics, Passions, etc. that get you closest to the deity - and by acting as your deity, you gain benefits (i.e. bonuses) during your heroquests.  At the same time, if you fail to enact your part as your deity you gain substantial penalties, and may fall out of the quest altogether.

 

 

 

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

But what about spirits? they don't need worshipers to understand the "now" situation. They can act easely in mundane world (compared to gods)

I'd tend to argue that spirits do not really "understand" the "now" situation.  They are in their own amorphous, ever-changing, but yet never-changing Spirit World.  That may in places be tangent to the mundane world, but from a conceptual rather than actual standpoint.

Some spirits do get bound or trapped in the mundane world, e.g. ghosts.  But the concerns of the ghost are not the concerns of "now" but of whatever trapped them in the mundane world (e.g. hate, lack of burial service, etc.).

Spirits are weaker than gods though so it is possible for mortals to summon them back.  Do they care or even know about the current situation?  Only abstractly.  Your Ancestor may have Hate(Greydog), and will act upon that.  Will they know that the Greydogs have raided you recently?  No.  Will they ask if you've raided the Greydogs?  Yes, because that is their driving passion.  Will they know that Leika is now Queen?  No.  Will they ask if your king/queen is leading you against the Greydogs?  Yes. 

[jajagappa]

One added thought on spirits and the mundane world.  I always liked the ideas in the HQG scenario: Ghosts on the Ridge. 

Possible spoilers below:

Spoiler

In that scenario you encounter the ghosts of the Vostangi clan.  They were cursed and want you to free them from the curse.  But those that cursed them are gone from the world too!  So now you're left with having to find a proxy for those who cursed them so that you can free them from the curse. 

The mundane world has moved on.... The concerns of the spirits have not - they are locked in the "reality" of the time when they existed, which is no more.

[soltakss]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:05 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

I thought like you, but I faced a big issue: the great compromise:

In my Glorantha, Gods may (rarely but they can, and with the "help" or at least the "gate" of initiates eyes) act in the mundane world.

It is all a matter of power, or importance.

Deities such as Orlanth are bound by the Compromise, as are many demigods and powerful Spirits.

I would go so far as saying that everyone in the God Time joined the Great Compromise, in particular those who died and were in Hell.

On 4/23/2021 at 9:05 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

But what about spirits? they don't need worshipers to understand the "now" situation. They can act easely in mundane world (compared to gods)

The Cult Compendium has rules about Spirit Cults on p28. There was an article somewhere, can't remember where, about Spirit Lords, those Spirits not powerful enough to be full deities but who could grant skills and/or spells. These are not Great Spirits, as such, but just powerful ones.

On 4/23/2021 at 9:05 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

So what could be a Yelm-great spirit ? a mask of Yelm? the "autonomous" part of the full God Yelm?

Whatever face Yelm presents to shamans.

Among Pentians, Yelm is Yu-Kargzant, the Lord of Kargzant.

For Praxians, Yelm would be very difficult to approach, but a son of Yelm might be easier to get magic from. Yamsur is probably the son of Yelm that Praxians contacted for magic, but he is long-gone.

 

[soltakss]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:12 AM, None said:

On 4/23/2021 at 8:30 AM, soltakss said:

Yes, there is even a HeroForming spell in the RQG Rulebook, Call Founder.

That's not what I meant as that spell summons a separate entity in a separate body.

I have always played that the Founder inhabits the Khan's body, so it is HeroForming.

On 4/23/2021 at 9:12 AM, None said:

You're making me doubt my memory here but I'm confident that the Heroforming from Hero Quest that I'm talking about that you yourself transform into a limited aspect of your deity.

In RQ, Firshala cultists could do it, as could worshippers of Mistress Sazdorf. HeroForming is merely an extension of those examples into a general principle.

On 4/23/2021 at 9:12 AM, None said:

Essentially invoking an extremely small scale Heroquest, giving you the abilituy to perfom said god's deed even if normaly beyond your physical capability. The limitation being that you bind yourself to acting as the deity in question did in that small mythical instance.

 

(I.e. the Ernalda version I mentioned allows you to make large swaths of the earth ferile simply by you being carried, or riding if you want to push it, past it.

You must however be pregnant and you must imitate Ernalda traveling throughout the land.)

That is essentially HeroQuesting, not HeroForming, although you are making Ernalda manifest in you, so it could be a combination of both.

 

 

[None]

I apologize for reviving a three year old thread like this but with the release of the solar cults book (hopefully) right around the corner my mind have been wandering back to the idea of a solar campaign quite a lot more recently. There is one idea in particular that have been popping up in my mind several times but I've also been very hesitant about.

Since things seem to be hereditary among solar cultures and even more so I'd wager among urban solar cultures I have been toying with the idea of a generational solar campaign that spans over several generations (and characters) possibly even an age or two if I really felt like it. Although, realistically. At that point it'd be more like several sequential campaigns.

Still, feasible or not I'd still like some input on the idea. Pitfalls, advice, possibilities and such.

[Joerg]

7 hours ago, None said:

Still, feasible or not I'd still like some input on the idea. Pitfalls, advice, possibilities and such.

In the Glorious ReAscent of Yelm there are hints at protective spirits of solar families that keep giving advice and prophecy to their families. Do you plan the campaign(s) to involve a single solar family, or possibly several (rival?) families crossing paths again and again?

[None]

59 minutes ago, Joerg said:

In the Glorious ReAscent of Yelm there are hints at protective spirits of solar families that keep giving advice and prophecy to their families. Do you plan the campaign(s) to involve a single solar family, or possibly several (rival?) families crossing paths again and again?

I was thinking about having it revolve around a single solar family that ale the players either belong to directly or serve depending on what the players want to serve (although I probably need at least one player every generation to be an actual descendant). Together with a few reoccurring rival and/or allied npc houses that cross path with them through the generations.

That felt the most intuitive and in line with the whole inheritance bit. Unless you meant several rival player houses in which case I hadn't thought about that. Not quite sure how to do it in a satisfying way either.

I do like the bit about protective spirits of solar families that keep giving advice and prophecy to their families. That is definitely something I would want to lean into.

[mfbrandi]

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

In the Glorious ReAscent of Yelm there are hints at protective spirits of solar families that keep giving advice and prophecy to their families.

Now you have me imagining a campaign where the PCs are those spirits nagging at generations of foolish fleshlings.

[None]

On 9/26/2024 at 11:22 PM, mfbrandi said:

Now you have me imagining a campaign where the PCs are those spirits nagging at generations of foolish fleshlings.

Actually I have been considering starting the campaign during the Golden Age and having at least some of the players characters from that time become the kind of icons that end up as subcults that their descendants can initiate into for a cool benefit or two (runic powers, social or otherwise).

Of course that leaves me in a position where I'd want to play through the Greater Darkness and I'm not sure how to do that considering the Dara Happans spent the entirety of that time huddled together in their cities inside a glazier. I'm assuming that they still had their share of Chaos troubles but probable less so that most others. So internal social politicking?

Of course there is also the fact that Yelm probably was quite unavailable during that time which should have serious consequences for the nobility. Could they even initiate into Yelm at that time? Or had they to make do with a diminished form of Yelm or one of his sons (such as their equivalent of Yelmalio)?

I'd also wager that Yelm associate cults couldn't get access to runic power that he normally gives them access too.

Also don't know how it would affect Dendara worshipers considering she was alive but followed Yelm into the underworld. Then we also have Erissa and Buserian cultists who locally probably didn't venture into the underworld with Orlanth but but did so as Chalana Arroy an Lhankor Mhy.

Of course, this assumes most Solar Deities weren't asleep like the Storm and Earth ones were. Come to think of it. The Troll Gods were very much awake during this time weren't they? What about  the water gods?

I would like to play through a part of the Greater darkness though. It should be be possible to make that an interesting and turbulent time for the Dara Happans but they just had to hunker down inside a huge block of ice until everything resolved itself (due to Yelm's prayer naturally 😀). Leaving me a little stumped.

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, None said:

Actually I have been considering starting the campaign during the Golden Age and having at least some of the players characters from that time become the kind of icons that end up as subcults that their descendants can initiate into for a cool benefit or two (runic powers, social or otherwise).

You could start in the Golden Age with the coronation of Murharhzarm or possibly him delegating the taming of the Oslir river to Lodril's children with the river, and then taking the Ten Tests, but it might make more sense to start with the founding of Yuthuppa and possibly the resettlement or set-up of Anaxial's other six cities after the Flood, especially if you want to use Yuthuppa rather than Raibanth. Alkoth is yet another story, and possibly rather different from the Dara Happa we normally envision, especially emerging from the Dome into the Greater Darkness and the Gray Age.

 

1 hour ago, None said:

Of course that leaves me in a position where I'd want to play through the Greater Darkness and I'm not sure how to do that considering the Dara Happans spent the entirety of that time huddled together in their cities inside a glazier. I'm assuming that they still had their share of Chaos troubles but probable less so that most others. So internal social politicking?

The bunker time of Dara Happa under Emperor Marlarvus "the Roofer" began as a countermeasure against the advancing glacier rather than against Chaos. The dome protects the remaining Tripolis of Anaxial's originally seven cities from the ice, and makes the Dara Happans miss the first incursion of the Chaos Horde led into the world by Wakboth, on their way to the Spike. The Spike implodes while the dome still is intact, but the subsequent horrors of the Greater Darkness find the dome broken open, and survivors fleeing into Manimat's hill forts of Darjiin or hiding elsewhere.

Politicking in Anaxial's now mortal Dara Happa might be rather unspectacular outside of succession episodes. Kestinendos and Manimat might be exceptions, with the Murharzarmic/Anaxialian lineages going into opposition against the foreigners.

1 hour ago, None said:

Of course there is also the fact that Yelm probably was quite unavailable during that time which should have serious consequences for the nobility. Could they even initiate into Yelm at that time? Or had they to make do with a diminished form of Yelm or one of his sons (such as their equivalent of Yelmalio)?

Each of the cities had its own orb, one of the sons or grandsons of Yelm (Raibamus and Alkor/Shargash), plus there was Antirius, the Cold Sun that remained high above the Footstool (possibly in the direction of ancient Yuthubars, slightly to the northwest). as the Darkness proceeded, Antirius kept losing height, until he fit under Manarlarvus's dome. In the meantime, Reladivus-Kargzant-Lightfore was the wandering Yelmalio who went and helped mortals, apparently starting his wanderings even before his city of Nivorah was destroyed. (Or maybe that was Yamsur?)

Unlike Yelmalio/Kargzant Lightfore, the light of Antirius disappeared until the Dawn. With the Bridling of Kargzant, uniting Lightfore with the Day Star in or around 110 ST, the powers of urban Yelm re-awakened (Avivath discovers the Sunspear).

The Horse Warlords worship their ancestor Kargzant already in the Gray Age, and they (well, Jenarong) re-awaken the urban orb gods like Raibamus. (Not so sure about the Hyalorings under Vuranostum and his sons, but their loss led to the Bridling of Kargzant and the rise of urban Antirius.)

2 hours ago, None said:

I'd also wager that Yelm associate cults couldn't get access to runic power that he normally gives them access too.

The concept of Rune Magic as spells received from distant deities seems to be a result of the Great Compromise and the Theyalan worship methods. That doesn't mean that Jenarong and his son or Vuranostum did not have any Rune Magic, but that may have worked a little differently than RuneQuest. Likewise Avivath's Sunspear embodiment only starts in 110 S.T.

Dawn Age Peloria received the message of the Lightbringers after the awakenings by various horse warlords. Full acceptance of the Theyalan rune magic ways probably arrived with the Dara Happans joining the Dorastan God Project, or in the resulting Bright Empire.

2 hours ago, None said:

Also don't know how it would affect Dendara worshipers considering she was alive but followed Yelm into the underworld. Then we also have Erissa and Buserian cultists who locally probably didn't venture into the underworld with Orlanth but but did so as Chalana Arroy an Lhankor Mhy.

Black Dendara emerged from the Underworld, followed by her children Lokarnos and Veldara (who may or may not have been Lesilla, the blue moon goddess of Mernita), already inthe Storm Age/Lesser Darkness, but were returned to the Underworld (in the end, Shargash sent down all the celestials that had not gone there on their own, yet). Few people would be able to witness, and few of those would have survived in catatonic hiding. People in Alkoth survived as Underworld entities, embracing a demonic Underworld heritage that got grafted on their god in his battle against Umath.

2 hours ago, None said:

Of course, this assumes most Solar Deities weren't asleep like the Storm and Earth ones were. Come to think of it. The Troll Gods were very much awake during this time weren't they? What about  the water gods?

The Troll Gods were quite awake, but not necessarily active on the surface world - Kyger Litor sat in her Castle of Lead adjacent to Daka Fal's Court of the Dead, which connected to Bijiif's Ashen Realm.

Argan Argar really was Darkfore, the force of Darkness protecting the surface world much like the migratory Yelmalio/Lightfore did. Zorak Zoran rampaged throughout the Lesser and Greater Darkness, and possibly imploded with Shargash as the last gods of Death killed each other, arriving for the Ritual of the Web. Antirius probably was somehow present for that, not sure about Kargzant, though.

Magasta came to his prime only long after the Flood, with the implosion of the Spike. The end of the Flood had sent many sea gods off the inner surface, with only the rivers and Heler above maintaining a presence (and we all know that Heler got swallowed by blue dragons ever so often). Valind possibly froze up Heler, leaving only lesser demigod-grade incarnations to act with the Storm Brothers. Sky River Titan may have brought (a manifestation of) Heler back into the world, even through the Greater Darkness.

But Magasta and the rivers called in by Sky River Titan were guardians of the Underworld as much as of the Surface world, fighting the ongoing siege of the Chaos Rift. They may have lent powers or lesser manifestations, but not necessary Rune magic.

Orlanth drinking from the Well of Daliath is a myth of the Greater Darkness, with the Spike necessarily imploded. Likewise Brastalos filling up the vacuum results there.

2 hours ago, None said:

I would like to play through a part of the Greater darkness though. It should be be possible to make that an interesting and turbulent time for the Dara Happans but they just had to hunker down inside a huge block of ice until everything resolved itself (due to Yelm's prayer naturally 😀). Leaving me a little stumped.

They miss out the combat against the ice demons, after losing to them badly in the initial contacts. They miss out on the Spike imploding. Some events later, the Iron Ram gets ripped off their dome, exposing the Chaos-devastated corridor through Valind's Glacier and nameless horrors descending on the survivors. Dramatic enough? Manimat creates the hilltop fortresses in Darjiin, Alkoth retreats into the Underworld, small groups of individuals find other loopholes to hide in until either the Only Old One's trolls or Jenarong's horse warlords discover them and enslave them. Darjiin (where the Manimati hid) gets the Hyaloringsas overlords in the Gray Age, who take over Dara Happa shortly after the Dawn as possibly the last "good emperor" using Jenarong's rites in sedentary Dara Happan history, as written by Plentonius and others.

Argan Argar overcomes his Chaos Foe Braznofstel at Morbode, an otherwise undisclosed location in Peloria. This might be a good event for your Dara Happans. (After all, Argan Argar has celestial ancestry...)