Solar Campaign

[None]

19 minutes ago, Joerg said:

7 hours ago, None said:

But the Vadrus that hasn't yet been devoured by Chaos still exist in the Godtime. Shouldn't it be possible to Initiate in to the him of that period? Plus, why would you let a thiny little thing like being Chaos devoured stop you if you really want to recreate a god?

You can worship the fragments (aka sons and daughters) of Vadrus - Valind, Gagarth, Iphara, Molanni, the Triolini male ancestors, and second generation offspring like Ygg and Thryk, and hope to synthesize the Godtime entity. A noble undertaking, similar to re-assembling Sedenya.

Lets see. Valind is the nasty storm god of winter, Gargath is ... a od of bandits, I belive? I don't think I've heard of any of the other ones.

21 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Quote

Actually what kind of Storm/Wind was Vadrus?

In The Initiation of Orlanth, Vadrus is the force of the wind - he churns up the seas, and emerges from the funnel inside the waters. Violence is his trade mark, as is raw strength.

Might makes Right - that's the Vadrudi creed, one of the legacies of Umath.

Defenitely , possibly . 

23 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Vadrus is everything Ernalda doesn't let Orlanth be.

But does Vadrus have lightning?

24 minutes ago, Joerg said:

As much as Kolat is the Spirit Wind, Vadrus is the God Storm. Forget about Orlanth for a while, he is nothing but a local by-blow that made it big, and incorporated a high number of similar local deities to swell to his current size.

So Vadrus is the Storm that toples everything in its way, lifts entire buildings and leaves the demolished shreds in its way. That does make it sound like he might be more worthy of than Orlanth (unless you think Orlanth's breadth is more important but I don't think Vadrus would).

Making him into potentially and someone who might not agree that his little brother deserves the title King of the Gods. Interesting.

30 minutes ago, Joerg said:

And then there is Ragnaglar, the other fifth son of Orlanth. Associated with goats.

Wait _Rgnaglar is what? I didn't know that one. I doubt the Solars will ever let Orlanth, or the Orlanthi, forget that relationship. (So, before I make any assumptions. Did Yelm father any Chaos gods?)

16 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

[lots of great but extremely complicated stuff saved for now, except to say that in the triolini-facing archaic west another brother seems to have become Storm King through a different channel while little brother was relegated to more of a trickster role]

You have my attention, please do tell.

[scott-martin]

8 minutes ago, None said:

You have my attention, please do tell.

Organized data dump coming, I promise. But luckily it's a sideshow to your current primary interests!

[Joerg]

4 minutes ago, None said:

Lets see. Valind is the nasty storm god of winter, Gargath is ... a od of bandits, I belive? I don't think I've heard of any of the other ones.

Daughters, listed in the Sourcebook. Iphara is the murderous goddess of murderous fog, and Molanni is the goddess of Still Air, mother of Daga by Yelm/the Evil Emperor, god of droughts.

Gagarth is the (leading) god of the Wild Hunt, an evil spirit storm (probably inherited from his father), and his desert tornados/dust devils are also known as whirlvishes. A source of power for Praxians outlawed and excommunicated.

 

4 minutes ago, None said:

Defenitely , possibly . 

The latter makes sense.

 

4 minutes ago, None said:

But does Vadrus have lightning?

No, that was stolen/conquered by Orlanth from the Sky - a place Vadrus apparently has not graced with his destruction, or saved from Chaos.

Not sure about Thunder, either. Howling gales, certainly.

4 minutes ago, None said:

So Vadrus is the Storm that toples everything in its way, lifts entire buildings and leaves the demolished shreds in its way. That does make it sound like he might be more worthy of than Orlanth (unless you think Orlanth's breadth is more important but I don't think Vadrus would).

Yes, early on (after Umath had been dismembered by Jagrekriand (Shargash/Shadzor), Vadrus was the leader of the Storm Host, the sons of Umath having their fun with an unprepared Golden Age. Orlanth flew in those ranks, as did Aerlit (father of Malkion), and probably Kahar did, too.

Umath introduced Pastoralism as a culture to the world, and most storm gods have a pastoralist aspect. There are dozens of herder deities or Founders throughout the Barbarian Belt. They failed to establish themselves as supreme in Pamaltela, but their pastoralism seeped into Doraddi culture.

It is quite hard to draw a definitive border between Hsunchen founders and storm gods in many cases. There are quite a few carnivore totems which have storm aspects, too. Rathor and Odayla aren't that far apart from one another, and the concept of hunting his own totem may have been learned by Harrek during his stint in the Empire, in contact with Sylilans.

 

4 minutes ago, None said:

Making him into potentially and someone who might not agree that his little brother deserves the title King of the Gods. Interesting.

Orlanth rose to importance by adopting cultures rather than destroying them. He is the only major storm god who adopted farming in the myths. (The Kereusi, Bisosae, and Enjoreli of the Bull pastoralists and the Enerali horse pastoralists adopted farming, too. They didn't make it to top ruling deities, though, or readily identified those aspects of their storm gods with the Orlanth of the Lightbringers.)

Vadrus never had the patience to stay anywhere and rule - even less so than Harrek.

 

4 minutes ago, None said:

Wait _Rgnaglar is what?

Fifth son of Umath, not Orlanth. Sorry... but then, at times Orlanth is Umath.

4 minutes ago, None said:

I didn't know that one. I doubt the Solars will ever let Orlanth, or the Orlanthi, forget that relationship.

Being Ragnaglar's brother is enough of a burden. But then, the Solars don't really care much about Chaos, other than Yelmalio. They are bitter about Storm, Sea, and Darkness.

4 minutes ago, None said:

(So, before I make any assumptions. Did Yelm father any Chaos gods?)

Orlanth or Umath is somehow paternally related to Bad King Urgrain, or lesser social Chaos in the Orlanthi world view.

Yelm sired Tolat and Veldara when in Hell, and some Blue Moon empire turned to Chaos. And he begat Daga on Molanni, an evil god skirting the evils of Ragnaglar but lacking enlightenment.

 

 

[None]

7 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Daughters, listed in the Sourcebook. Iphara is the murderous goddess of murderous fog, and Molanni is the goddess of Still Air, mother of Daga by Yelm/the Evil Emperor, god of droughts.

Gagarth is the (leading) god of the Wild Hunt, an evil spirit storm (probably inherited from his father), and his desert tornados/dust devils are also known as whirlvishes. A source of power for Praxians outlawed and excommunicated.

Interesting children he has there. I think I'm begining to see how a Vadrus worshiper would be. Seems their greatest challenge getting together and tollerating each other, much les becoming organized, butr if they succeded at that.

Oh, dear. They'd pretty much be the iconic pillaging and ravaging horde.

12 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Quote

Defenitely , possibly . 

The latter makes sense.

Making his worshipers into really destructive and disruptive warriors with the ability to fly and move swiftly over the battlefield (as I understand those runes). If not for Orlanth's lightning I'd say Vadrus makes a much more terrifying and dangerous war god. (He kind of reminds me a bit of Shargasdhs.)

15 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Yes, early on (after Umath had been dismembered by Jagrekriand (Shargash/Shadzor), Vadrus was the leader of the Storm Host, the sons of Umath having their fun with an unprepared Golden Age. Orlanth flew in those ranks, as did Aerlit (father of Malkion), and probably Kahar did, too.

 

16 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Vadrus never had the patience to stay anywhere and rule - even less so than Harrek.

Doesn't mean he wuold just accept Orlanth being King of the Gods or .

17 minutes ago, Joerg said:

the Solars don't really care much about Chaos, other than Yelmalio. They are bitter about Storm, Sea, and Darkness.

That ... that feels like they've got somewhat skewed priorties there. I thought everyone cared about and disliked Chaos.

Except for the Illuminated af course -oh. A chaos tained, illuinated Vadrus. Actually that might be a bit too much. Hiim beeing Chaos tainted after being reconstructed after beeing devoured by Chaos is probably enough.

20 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Yelm sired Tolat and Veldara when in Hell, and some Blue Moon empire turned to Chaos. And he begat Daga on Molanni, an evil god skirting the evils of Ragnaglar but lacking enlightenment.

Not actually Chaos though. Still, I immagine Yelm doesn't want to admit relations with Daga too much.

It also means a son of Daga could become Emperor of Dara Happa.

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Vadrus is everything Ernalda doesn't let Orlanth be.

A beautiful sentence, so poetic. Thanks

 

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Chained to the Whirlpool, the Inverted Spike.  (Remember those visions of Umath chained to the center of the World?  It's really Vadrus...)

waouh, a very nice information too.

 

PS I m serious

[None]

22 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Quote

But does Vadrus have lightning?

No, that was stolen/conquered by Orlanth from the Sky - a place Vadrus apparently has not graced with his destruction, or saved from Chaos.

Oh right, this.,

Does that mean lightning belonged to Yelm or some other Solar deity once?

Then there's a conection there in the Godworld even if its technically gone in Time. Hmm.

[French Desperate WindChild]

5 minutes ago, None said:

Doesn't mean he wuold just accept Orlanth being King of the Gods or .

Orlanth is the master of air, for sure, but that doesn't mean that Vadrus (resurrected) would accept his brother's rule

[Joerg]

1 minute ago, None said:

Oh right, this.,

Does that mean lightning belonged to Yelm or some other Solar deity once?

Then there's a conection there in the Godworld even if its technically gone in Time. Hmm.

Yes, Lightning is one of Orlanth's Four Elemental Weapons. He stole the Sandals of Darkness, got rewarded by Huraya's Scarf of Mist, received the Shield of Arran through marriage and wrestled Lightning Boy into submission.

Thunder Rebels gives us plenty names and (sometimes somewhat silly) subcults of Orlanth. There, the Storm Brother subcult of Lightning gets then name Yavor, and has hints at myths. One other subcult, FInovan the (cattle) Raider, wields a sword of lightning which has the same source as the lightning javelins.

[None]

5 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Yes, Lightning is one of Orlanth's Four Elemental Weapons.

Just to be sure. Wen we're speaking of lightning here  do you make a diference between lightning  as in the Lightning  spell and lightning  as in the Thunderbolt spell?

[None]

16 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Orlanth is the master of air, for sure, but that doesn't mean that Vadrus (resurrected) would accept his brother's rule

WExactly! Which opens up the possibility of the Orlanthi having trouble wit the eh, Vadrusi too. Which in turn opens up opportunities for GM and players alike. Especially as I thikn even the Dara Happans would prefer Orlanth over Vadrus.

Actully, I doubt anyone would appreciate Vadrus reapearance except Vadrus himself and his worshipers (and maybe  his children).

Edoit: Doubly so for a Chaos tainted Vadrus.

Edited April 13, 2021 by None

[Joerg]

38 minutes ago, None said:

Just to be sure. Wen we're speaking of lightning here  do you make a diference between lightning  as in the Lightning  spell and lightning  as in the Thunderbolt spell?

Yes. Thunderbolt is not a lightning, it is the mighty Thunder striking, the explosion caused by the magic of the Thunderer. It is a power apparently shared with Shargash, who may have taken it from Umath.

Foes hit by the Thunderbolt are thunderstruck, not struck by lightning. Real world superstition says that hot thunderstorm strikes are the lightning striking, and cold strikes (without resulting in a fire) are the thunder striking. Glorantha operates on the same assumption.

Note that the Thunderbolt is different from the Thunderstone tossed by Umath.

There is another real world superstition/myth from Germany say that Belemnite fossils were created where the Thunder struck. These fossils do resemble the glass cones that can be created from lightning striking quartz sand.

  

32 minutes ago, None said:

Actully, I doubt anyone would appreciate Vadrus reapearance except Vadrus himself and his worshipers (and maybe  his children).

Even his children didn't mourn Vadrus passing away much. After all, they got to keep his nifty inheritence. Daddy coming back and wanting his toys back would irritate most of his offspring just as much as he would the rest of the world.

 

32 minutes ago, None said:

Edoit: Doubly so for a Chaos tainted Vadrus.

There is a name for that, and that is Ragnaglar.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Joerg

[Sir_Godspeed]

2 hours ago, None said:

That ... that feels like they've got somewhat skewed priorties there. I thought everyone cared about and disliked Chaos.

 

This is one of those things where we run into multiple layers of interpretation when it comes to Glorantha. On the face of it, the texts we read about Glorantha sound kind of omniscient and neutral, but on a closer inspection, they're often implicitly written from the perspective of Orlanthi, or Orlanthi-adjacent cultures. 

Chaos is a major threat and concern among the Orlanthi and in cultures that have had a lot of dealings with the Orlanthi, such as the Trolls of the Shadow Plateau, the Praxians and so forth. 

However, Chaos as "The Big Bad" is not really acknowledged by every other culture. 

To the Malkioni, the greater existential threat is usually various forms of ignorance, wrong knowledge or being lead astray, such as falling to theism or spiritualism, losing sight of the Invisible God, and so forth. The Malkioni group trolls, barbarians and Chaos all together in the term "krjalki". Monsters. 

To the Dara Happans, the greater existential threat, as discussed above, what brought down the Golden Age and nearly broke the cosmos was rebellion and insurrection. Failure to acknowledge the right hierarchy, to obey one's (legitimate) superiors and to act in one's station is what breaks the world. 

The above examples are stereotyped, of course. Both Malkioni and Dara Happans know what Chaos is, and generally oppose it in most of its forms, but they lend less ultimate weight to it than the Orlanthi and friends.

There are other cultures that we know less about. The Vithelan cultures (Kralorela, Teshnos, East Isles) differ in various ways, but seems to have in common that they don't quite follow the same God Time procedure as the rest of Glorantha, with the absolute low-point of near-exinction of the Greater Darkness seemingly not even taking place in the East Isles, for example. 

The Pamaltelans, interestingly, seem to have a view of Chaos that's perhaps loosely analogous to the Orlanthi view, ie. as the Big Bad, but honestly I'm not sure if I have too much to go on there. Certainly the Doraddi detest the Chaos monsters that infest their lands, and celebrate Pamalt for burning them by dipping the sky dome onto them, as well as condemning the Chaotic fall of the Artmali empire, but whether this seeps into their general social values and concerns as it does with the Orlanthi ("doing XYZ is a chaotic act and is taboo", etc.) I don't know. And of course the Fonritans have incorporated active chaos worship into their religions, which is pretty far out.

[None]

12 hours ago, Joerg said:

Yes. Thunderbolt is not a lightning, it is the mighty Thunder striking, the explosion caused by the magic of the Thunderer. It is a power apparently shared with Shargash, who may have taken it from Umath.

Foes hit by the Thunderbolt are thunderstruck, not struck by lightning. Real world superstition says that hot thunderstorm strikes are the lightning striking, and cold strikes (without resulting in a fire) are the thunder striking. Glorantha operates on the same assumption.

This still means that there could be some Solar worshiper out there that could scrounge up some way to access Lightning through the god(s) that Orlanth stole it from.

12 hours ago, Joerg said:

Even his children didn't mourn Vadrus passing away much. After all, they got to keep his nifty inheritence. Daddy coming back and wanting his toys back would irritate most of his offspring just as much as he would the rest of the world.

Oh, right. They would all be weakened wouldn-t they. Vadrus on the other hand could probablyclaim all of them as Associated cults. (On that note does Valind have the or the (cold) rune?)

He should also be able to steal or enforce a connection to Heler, and if he conquered the Sea he should be able to to claim many Water gods as Associate or even wield several of the the more destructive aspects of Warer directly.

(What's it called when an enormous whirlwind forms out in the ocean, pulls up water and then blows in over land? Doesn't winds have some part in the creation of Tsunamis too? I'm unsure.)

12 hours ago, Joerg said:

Quote

Edoit: Doubly so for a Chaos tainted Vadrus.

There is a name for that, and that is Ragnaglar.

So, Ragnaglar v2.0? Except one that might or might not be Chaos tainted because what fun is it if its obvious and certain? I just need a way to make sure Storm Bull can't just sniff at him and scream Chaos.

Then there is that little bit about Vadrus not beeing involved in the Great Compromise and that he doesn't feel like the type to realy respect such a thing anyway.

Actually I think I'd just make it so that a returned Vadrus would somehow have (for whatever its worth) despite Orlanth alrerady having it. Then I just make it ambigious if that (really is or ().

 

Edit:

10 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

This is one of those things where we run into multiple layers of interpretation when it comes to Glorantha. On the face of it, the texts we read about Glorantha sound kind of omniscient and neutral, but on a closer inspection, they're often implicitly written from the perspective of Orlanthi, or Orlanthi-adjacent cultures. 

10 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

However, Chaos as "The Big Bad" is not really acknowledged by every other culture. 

10 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

To the Dara Happans, the greater existential threat, as discussed above, what brought down the Golden Age and nearly broke the cosmos was rebellion and insurrection. Failure to acknowledge the right hierarchy, to obey one's (legitimate) superiors and to act in one's station is what breaks the world. 

This explains why the Lunars were able to get the Pelorians to accept their 'Let's tame Chaos' scheeme. Unlike with the Orlanthi.

Edited April 14, 2021 by None

[soltakss]

13 hours ago, None said:

Does that mean lightning belonged to Yelm or some other Solar deity once?

Shargash took lightning bolts from Umath's brain, after he killed Umath.

Orlanth merely regained that which was stolen by the Sky.

[davecake]

2 hours ago, None said:

This still means that there could be some Solar worshiper out there that could scrounge up some way to access Lightning through the god(s) that Orlanth stole it from.

This is exactly the sort of thing that hero questing is good for. Go find one of the gods Orlanth stole it from, and he might tell you a way to get it back. Possibly by beating up some Orlanthi deity, but maybe returning to the source. And if you did that, you could even be a hero that teaches the spell to other people. 

The question is, had any solar hero done this? None I know of. But you can always create one. 

15 hours ago, None said:

Still, I immagine Yelm doesn't want to admit relations with Daga too much.

Not sure about that. Abundant food is a privilege for people that behave and are grateful to big sky daddy. 

 

13 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

To the Malkioni, the greater existential threat is usually various forms of ignorance, wrong knowledge or being lead astray, such as falling to theism or spiritualism, losing sight of the Invisible God, and so forth. The Malkioni group trolls, barbarians and Chaos all together in the term "krjalki". Monsters. 

I think grouping everything together as krjalki is an ancient Malkioni thing, but not a modern one. 

The Malkioni, and possibly the God Learners, I think are the origin of splitting the Devil into two, Wakboth (moral evil) and Kajabor (entropy), though they arguably also think of Entropy as a result of divine error, a fact of the universe that is difficult to correct, but a regrettable one. Possibly both together is what creates Chaos - so Tapping is Entropic, but not Chaotic if used by a Brithini, and obviously Chaotic if used by a Vadeli, who are innately morally Evil, if I may channel Zzabur for a moment. 

13 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

The Pamaltelans, interestingly, seem to have a view of Chaos that's perhaps loosely analogous to the Orlanthi view, ie. as the Big Bad, but honestly I'm not sure if I have too much to go on there. Certainly the Doraddi detest the Chaos monsters that infest their lands, and celebrate Pamalt for burning them by dipping the sky dome onto them, as well as condemning the Chaotic fall of the Artmali empire, but whether this seeps into their general social values and concerns as it does with the Orlanthi ("doing XYZ is a chaotic act and is taboo", etc.)

The threat of Chaos was the thing that brought everyone together to cooperate with Pamalt. Vovisibor is the devil and was only defeated when everyone joined in to fight it. Only by everyone working together can Chaos ultimately be defeated, only by following the ways of Pamalt will everyone work together. The failure to defeat Chaos separately (by the Artmali, but also the individual efforts of eg Vangono, Qualyorni, the elves, etc) shows why acting separately will let Chaos win, so you better listen to what Pamalt says. So I think Chaos is always lingering as the big problem, but not quite as directly as it is to the Orlanthi or the Praxians. But I think there is a conception of Chaos being the big awful problem that threatens the world (like it is to the Orlanthi) rather than just the worst consequences of something else (disobedience or rebellion to the Yelmics, Error to the Malkioni, Spiritual Ignorance to the Easterners, etc) 

The Fonritans don't believe that of course, but that's because they are Chaos corrupted jerks. Ultimately, like almost all the problems of current Pamaltela, it is because the Vadeli are toxic, Chaos enabling, jerks and everything they touch turns to poison eventually. 

[Joerg]

11 hours ago, soltakss said:

Shargash took lightning bolts from Umath's brain, after he killed Umath.

Clearly a bogus myth. You claim that Umath had a brain?

If the Dara Happans fetishize parts of Umath's anatomy, its the part between the legs.

Umath and Shargash already exchanged missiles crashing down into the north. Umath was obviously throwing Thunder, but Shargash may have done so, too.

When Umath was mortally wounded, he left behind countless thunderstones in the Thunder Delta region. 

 

[None]

On 4/13/2021 at 7:20 PM, Joerg said:

Iphara is the murderous goddess of murderous fog

Are we talking the kind of fog that sneak up on you and suddenly just suround you and then you begin to melt, or some other kind of murderous fog. Or is this all that is known about her?

On 4/13/2021 at 7:20 PM, Joerg said:

Gagarth is the (leading) god of the Wild Hunt, an evil spirit storm (probably inherited from his father), and his desert tornados/dust devils are also known as whirlvishes. A source of power for Praxians outlawed and excommunicated.

Can you explain him and the Wild Hunt a bit closer? I understand it as him basically being a god (albeit a very nasty one) you can turn to when no one else wats you?

On 4/13/2021 at 8:35 PM, Joerg said:

Note that the Thunderbolt is different from the Thunderstone tossed by Umath.

How so?

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, None said:

Are we talking the kind of fog that sneak up on you and suddenly just suround you and then you begin to melt, or some other kind of murderous fog. Or is this all that is known about her?

It's the fog that is so thick that it is easy to commit murder within - and no one will know who did it.

It's the fog that carries will-o-the-wisps that lead you on to your doom.

Etc.  (but it doesn't melt you - that would be something from Hell, or Chaos)

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, None said:

Can you explain him and the Wild Hunt a bit closer?

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/g/gagarth/

While I seem to recall a cult of Gagarth in one of the Praxian issues of the nineties fanzines, a web search showed up Sandy Petersen's version of Gagarth in the RuneQuest Daily:
https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/HenkDaily/v940312p1

As good as you can get short of an official publication (which I am unaware of).

 

4 hours ago, None said:

I understand it as him basically being a god (albeit a very nasty one) you can turn to when no one else wats you?

Imagine that as becoming a prospect in the most brutal biker gang you can imagine. They will ask you to prove yourself being up to their standards.

 

4 hours ago, None said:

How so?

One is a stout spear-like weapon (and a ranged rune-spell), the other is a magical slingstone (or thrown rock). The Thunderbolt spell requires quite heavy cloud cover to be able to call it down, while the stones work in all weather conditions.

Ironically enough, the Lunar army uses Thunderstones en masse, courtesy their Thunder Delta slinger regiments from Thrice Blessed which collect them from their tundra homeland.

[jajagappa]

50 minutes ago, Joerg said:

As good as you can get short of an official publication (which I am unaware of).

Largely in line with what's coming in Gods of Glorantha.

53 minutes ago, Joerg said:

One is a stout spear-like weapon (and a ranged rune-spell)

Or a vajra as in one of the images Chaosium has shared of Orlanth.

 

[Joerg]

2 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Largely in line with what's coming in Gods of Glorantha.

Or a vajra as in one of the images Chaosium has shared of Orlanth.

 

I regard the vajra as one of these magically extendable spear-like weapons - I have seen Indian depictions with significantly longer handles. Nothing like a slingstone, in any case.

 

Orlanth never had to wait for clouds to cover enough of the sky overhead...

[None]

18 hours ago, jajagappa said:

It's the fog that is so thick that it is easy to commit murder within - and no one will know who did it.

It's the fog that carries will-o-the-wisps that lead you on to your doom.

Etc.  (but it doesn't melt you - that would be something from Hell, or Chaos)

That does make more sense. Although I still like the body meltin fog( I'll have to use that shomewhere at some point.)

Come to think of it, shouln't fog have a close connection to water in Glorantha too?

17 hours ago, Joerg said:

22 hours ago, None said:

Can you explain him and the Wild Hunt a bit closer?

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/g/gagarth/

While I seem to recall a cult of Gagarth in one of the Praxian issues of the nineties fanzines, a web search showed up Sandy Petersen's version of Gagarth in the RuneQuest Daily:
https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/HenkDaily/v940312p1

As good as you can get short of an official publication (which I am unaware of).

Thank you.

17 hours ago, Joerg said:

Quote

I understand it as him basically being a god (albeit a very nasty one) you can turn to when no one else wats you?

Imagine that as becoming a prospect in the most brutal biker gang you can imagine. They will ask you to prove yourself being up to their standards.

Ah.

And Vadrus is essentially said biker gangs father.

--

On 4/13/2021 at 7:20 PM, Joerg said:

Yes, early on (after Umath had been dismembered by Jagrekriand (Shargash/Shadzor), Vadrus was the leader of the Storm Host, the sons of Umath having their fun with an unprepared Golden Age. Orlanth flew in those ranks,

Thinking about it, wasn't Orlanth born later? He is also the only one that isn't solely a shard of Umath, yes?

On 4/13/2021 at 8:35 PM, Joerg said:

Quote

Edoit: Doubly so for a Chaos tainted Vadrus.

There is a name for that, and that is Ragnaglar.

I should have wrtten 'possibly Chaos tainted'  there by the way. I wan't it to be amigious a, he was once destroyed by Chaos and is resurrected from outside time. You can never be entirely sure.

Also, as Vadrus was dead during the making of the Great Compromise doesn't that mean he isn't entirely included by it?

I mean he certainly wasn't there to agree to it and he feels like an even greater 'You don't get to tell me what to do!' than even Orlanth, and that's saying something.

----

On 4/13/2021 at 7:20 PM, Joerg said:

Not sure about Thunder, either. Howling gales, certainly.

Who needs Thunder when you get Storms like mine?

----

About the Alkothi. Do they actually leve their city very often, and when they do how do thet interact with and integrate into the rest of Dara  Happan society?

Do they even have Yelm worsipers in that city?

----

By the way. Are there any Great Earth Goddesses, dead or alive, that can rival Ernada?

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, None said:

And Vadrus is essentially said biker gangs father.

Their founder - not of the chapter, but of the entire organisation.

4 hours ago, None said:

Thinking about it, wasn't Orlanth born later? He is also the only one that isn't solely a shard of Umath, yes?

Already the Storm Bull has a mother, Mikyh, the female aspect of the beast ancestor twins.

Kero Fin is given as not just Orlanth's mother in History of the Heortling Peoples p.11, but I think that is at best a projection from her giving birth to Orlanth.

But those are the only confirmed mothers among the children of Umath.

Later is a bit of a moot point in Godtime. If I had to give a conception date for Orlanth, it would be before Umath left for his invasion of the Perfect Sky via Stormgate. How much earlier is really a weird question.

Orlanth apparently is the youngest of the five Umathsons put to the test by the Evil Uncles, barely old enough to be eligible for initiation.

I am not quite clear whether the tales of Tat and Tol are meant to take place after his initiation, or whether some of those may have been scandalously before his becoming a legal adult. (As a character, Orlanth probably managed that when he set out for the LBQ.)

 

4 hours ago, None said:

I should have wrtten 'possibly Chaos tainted'  there by the way. I wan't it to be amigious a, he was once destroyed by Chaos and is resurrected from outside time. You can never be entirely sure.

Everything coming up in Time is tainted with the doom of being consumed by entropy a little every hour, every day.

Doing a magical recombination gig, possibly reconstructing missing parts or interfaces, will bring up material tainted with more than just Time corruption.

 

4 hours ago, None said:

Also, as Vadrus was dead during the making of the Great Compromise doesn't that mean he isn't entirely included by it?

He never agreed to it, but then his "Hurt everyone" clan didn't quite agree to the founding of the Storm Tribe and only contributed because Ernalda invited someone to be beaten up.

 

4 hours ago, None said:

I mean he certainly wasn't there to agree to it and he feels like an even greater 'You don't get to tell me what to do!' than even Orlanth, and that's saying something.

Yeah, that's what he would grunt whenever younger brother's bossy wife came up with yet another restriction.

 

4 hours ago, None said:

About the Alkothi. Do they actually leve their city very often, and when they do how do thet interact with and integrate into the rest of Dara  Happan society?

Their neighbors from Darjiin observe very closely whether a bunch of Alkothi come in their direction carrying lynching tools.

Alkoth used to be the dominant city on the Oslir during the Greater Darkness and into the start of the Gray Age. During the reign of the Horse Warlords, Alkoth managed to get in an emperor or two. Those had already taken on human shapes, unlike the demons which roamed the Greater Darkness and even gave the trolls a pause.

 

4 hours ago, None said:

Do they even have Yelm worsipers in that city?

Everybody in Dara Happa worships Yelm, few are allowed to fully initiate.

The planetary god of the Green City was one of eight planetary offspring of Yelm, which makes Alkothi nobility somewhat eligible for initiation into Yelm's cult if they can trace their ancestry to Shargash.

 

4 hours ago, None said:

By the way. Are there any Great Earth Goddesses, dead or alive, that can rival Ernada?

Both her mother Asrelia and her grandmother Gata could when they were at the fertile "age".

I haven't seen any explanation why the Earth had these generational hand-overs. Especially the crone retirement of Asrelia is a bit of a puzzle. Ernalda is active in the Golden and Storm Age, but Orlanthi myths tell about Asrelia being the destined wife of Umath that didn't come to pass.

 

Dropping a few names from other cultures:

Aleshmara, the wife of Pamalt, might. The Vithelan mother of land might.

And Bab, the cubic pearl food goddess from Sea myth, certainly was the One Earth, the desired one.

b

[Sir_Godspeed]

5 hours ago, None said:

Come to think of it, shouln't fog have a close connection to water in Glorantha too?

Yes. As mentioned, it seems like there's a running theme of the Vadrudi having gained some dominion over water. Possibly connected to Vadrus either having kids with water goddesses (the implication of rape is always present, but not said out loud) or possibly it might come from Heler, aka. The Blue Woman (Heler can be both male and female and androgynous) who Vadrus saved from the Blue Dragon (who may or may not have been Heler too, in their "sovereign" form).

EDIT: Note that Orlanth is credited with the same dragonslaying and heler-saving feat. One may have stolen the feat from the other, or it might be a weird meta-Storm kinda deal.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Sir_Godspeed

[None]

17 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Their founder - not of the chapter, but of the entire organisation.

And if vadrus came back Gargath would no longer bethe head of the gang, only second in command at most. I see.

18 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Stormgate

The what now?

18 minutes ago, Joerg said:

He never agreed to it, but then his "Hurt everyone" clan didn't quite agree to the founding of the Storm Tribe and only contributed because Ernalda invited someone to be beaten up.

Meaning everything points towards Vadrus return beeing trouble for everyone. Excelent. It's a pitty I cant use this idea and tand a campaign in the pre Umath Golden Age easily. 🙁

22 minutes ago, Joerg said:

his "Hurt everyone" clan

That really is a telling name. I'm sure all of central nothern Glorantha is looking forward to the return of the Hurt Everyting clan (now with a light seasoning of maybe extra Chaos).

Really though, with he way I understand how Chaos works Chaos taint can ad litterally any powers or traits to someone, as long as said powers or traits are nasty, subversive or unsettling.

27 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Yeah, that's what he would grunt whenever younger brother's bossy wife came up with yet another restriction.

You're giving me the impression that Vadrus and Ernalda really didn't get along. Not that I think there was a lot of people he got along with. What about Heler?

30 minutes ago, Joerg said:

unlike the demons which roamed the Greater Darkness and even gave the trolls a pause

(bolding mine)

Uh, that sounds really bad.

Also, I should have asked. Do the Alkothi even appear in any of the other cities without it causing a majour stir?

32 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The planetary god of the Green City was one of eight planetary offspring of Yelm, which makes Alkothi nobility somewhat eligible for initiation into Yelm's cult if they can trace their ancestry to Shargash.

I can se a lot of complications arising from this.

36 minutes ago, Joerg said:

I haven't seen any explanation why the Earth had these generational hand-overs. Especially the crone retirement of Asrelia is a bit of a puzzle.

Yes, I would have expected Asrelia to wield at least some influence over Ernalda but all I've seen claim otherwhise. Meanwhile Voria is pushed into the background as 'still unfinished' or 'wait your turn child'.

30 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

EDIT: Note that Orlanth is credited with the same dragonslaying and heler-saving feat. One may have stolen the feat from the other, or it might be a weird meta-Storm kinda deal.

That feels like the kind of thing that caneasily turn into very loud qarguments, or even conflicts.