Why Esrolia for the Holy Country in RQG

[Joerg]

  

22 minutes ago, None said:

Belintar and the Holy country. He is the ruler of the Holy country yes? Why Is he associated with Esrolia in the generation of your characters past in the core book?

I thought Belintar and the Holy country was located to the east of esrolia past the Bay of ... uh (I don't remember the name right now but Im sure you know what stretch of water I'm talking about).

The Choralinthor Bay lies in the center of the Holy Country. Esrolia is the most populous of the six elementally associated main portions of Belintar's Kethaela, and the only one detailed in the rules book as a homeland.

Heortland (what you seem to be thinking of as Belintar's Holy Country) is just the Storm section of the land, and while it is the second most populous portion of the Holy Country, it only has about a third the population Esrolia has (in about the same area). The next biggest Sixth is Caladraland with 240k humans (or 400k if you include Porthomeka, a former part of Esrolia now ruled by Caladralander nobility, conquered from Hendriki overlords having gone native in Esrolia), followed by the Shadow Plateau and the adjacent Lead Hills, with a troll and trollkin population above 50k and hardly any humans, and the two archipelagos of the Left and Right Arm with less than 40k humans each.

Esrolia has quite a few naturalized immigrants - the coastlines and the rivers are populated by fisherfolk who share the ancestors of the Rightarm Islanders and the founders of Karse, and there was a significant immigration from Heortland during the Adjustment Wars, which started after the Devastation of the Vent and probably took advantage of the enormous influx of refugees from Dragon Pass after the collapse of the EWF and continued aggression by the Pelorians (Sairdites, Carmanians and Dara Happans). While most of Esrolia managed to shake off the yoke of male rulership, quite a few places remained somewhat Adjusted (to Orlanthi norms elsewhere). The Porthomekan land grab may have extended beyond the territory controlled by them today, and may have left Caladralander immigrants, too. And the cities will have attracted merchants from all neighboring countries, including agents for the Trader Princes who also established themselves in Ditaliland and further west.

Still, the houses of the original grandmothers and their side branches dominate Esrolian population, probably to a greater degree than they dominate the population of Nochet. And there was immigration to central and southern Heortland during the First Age, documented in the Foreigner Laws of Aventus, a Hendriki king from the sixth century which dealt with the various non-Hendriki population groups in Hendrikiland. The laws were applied when dissidents from Orlanthland moved here during the EWF, and when the refugees from Dragon Pass flowed in between 1042 and 1120. Thus, you find fisherfolk and Esrolian-descended, more matrilocal groups in Heortland who don't share the Hendriki traits, and you find the Malkioni/Malkionized Esvulari, too.

[None]

That still doesn't tel mel what Belintar's relationship to all of this because I could read it as Belintar being the ruler of all the above areras but I'm pretty convinced Esrolia is an indepedent country ruled over by its Queen and the Grandmothers, both who answer to no one (except that you even as the Queen really souldn't anger the Grrandmothers).

So what is Belintars role in all of this?

[soltakss]

2 hours ago, None said:

That still doesn't tel mel what Belintar's relationship to all of this because I could read it as Belintar being the ruler of all the above areras but I'm pretty convinced Esrolia is an indepedent country ruled over by its Queen and the Grandmothers, both who answer to no one (except that you even as the Queen really souldn't anger the Grrandmothers).

Don't forget that Esrolia, like the rest of the Holy Country, was part of the Shadowlands, ruled by the Only Old One, until Belintar killed the Only Old One and took the Holy Country under his rule.

Esrolia was never really ruled by the Grandmothers in the same way that it is now, although Belintar brought back many old customs and made peace with the Grandmothers, so probably gave them back much of the power they have now.

I can't remember reading much of how Belintar proved his right to rule Esrolia, except that he revealed himself to be one of the idols at the heart of their Great Temple.

Although he had a Governor of Esrolia, the real power lay with the Grandmothers, who supported Belintar.

 

[Joerg]

There is no single queen of Esrolia - as far as I can tell, there are city queens, who are the chief priestesses of Ernalda for that city (and surroundings) and who hold a lot of secular responsibility. Still, the council of Reverend Grandmothers (the autocratic leaders of the top tier Enfranchised Houses) are able to direct a queen.

Rarely, a queen also becomes the autocratic head of her house, able to veto the Grandmothers' vote and thereby keep freedom of her course.

Esrolia hasn't been a fully independent country since the Great Darkness. Until Belintar slew the Only Old One in 1318, Esrolia was also known as Dark Esrolia, the most populous part of the Kingdom of Night presided over by the Only Old One. His special hold over Esrolia stems also from the fact that he sheltered the population of Nochet from the Greater Darkness in his Obsidian Palace. That ancient debt led to the loyalty Esrolia had to the Kingdom of Night.

The Only Old One ruled by virtue of being the son of Esrola and Argan Argar, and by virtue of the system of Equal Exchange of goods and protection that he and his Shadowlords had set up in the Silver Age - a major factor in allowing the peoples of the I Fought We Won battle to emerge as a civilization into the postapocalyptic Dawn Age.

Belintar pretty much took over the reigns from the Only Old One, only he did so with different magics and a different set of priorities.

When he came, he was able to summon the Silver Age heroes - the victors of I Fought We Won, brothers in arms to the Only Old One, and the ones who led the Theyalan peoples out of the Darkness - and with his deep insight into the magical Otherworld of the Holy Country, he drew them on his side. He interfered with existing rites, inserted himself, and still provided the same prosperity as the old ways. The forces for the Only Old One were spearheaded by the Shadowlords, so he cut off the Shadow Tribute which the Shadowlords collected both as wealth and as token of the loyalty to the Kingdom of Night.

Little is known what exactly Belintar did to take over the Sixths, most of his deeds discussed here ae conjectures, some of them solidified into canon. A few deeds are well reorded - how he "broke the bank" in Casino Town, how he overcame the Hendriki king in battle, killed him, and then returned him to life a full year later, and his visit to the Ernaldan temple caves of Ezel (simply called Ernalda on older maps of Esrolia).

To win over Esrolia, Belintar had to gain the support both of the temple of Ezel and of the rulers of Nochet and Rhigos.

Esrolia, land of 10,000 Giddesses p.18:

Quote

The  Visionaries  of  Enervi  welcomed  Belintar  and  his companions  at  the  Temple  of  Light  and  Dark.  To  the amazement  of  the  priestesses,  he  revealed  that  his  own statue already protected the Temple.  
Belintar went into the Barren Womb, prayed alone and in silence. After he came out there were six new goddesses standing outside. This six were the goddesses of the Sixths of  Kethaela,  each  of  which  reinforced  the  connection  of their lands to Ezel and to Belintar. The goddess of the Sixth of Esrolia was a new daughter of the Ernalda (or sometimes Esrola) that nobody had ever seen before, but she escorted Belintar to the Palace of the Universal Queen. :

(The Visionaries are a prohpetic order at Ezel.. Skipping Footnote 18 which deals with a problem caused by the dogma of Three Separate Worlds which ruled Greg's writings at that time)

Proof of his pre-existing claim as a protector, providing new goddesses for his Holy Country project - it is hard to argue against this. It isn't quite clear whether these goddesses were Godtime entities or newly created wyters waiting to adopt their constituencies, but impressive nonetheless.

For Nochet, the statement of Belintar's deeds sounds a little different. Nochet had suffered in the Adjustment Wars, not so much by the Hendriki invaders but after the temple of Ernalda took exception to the Grandmothers of Nochet cursing Esrola to hurt the Adjusted parts of Esrolia, incurring a curse worse than they had inflicted. Rhigos was the premier city of Esrolia in these times, getting fat with trade from the Trader Princes and the grain from the Esrolian mesopotamia - the river basin of the Malthin and the Gorphing rivers, also taking the trade from the Porthomekan overlords on the Gorphing.

Quote

Belintar reinstated many ancient ways and contributed to the reconstruction of the city. His guidance was accurate and surprised many people, making their acceptance of him easier.  The  city  recovered  under  Belintar,  and  the population grew [from only 5000] to about 20,000 residents in a generation or two. 

The many ancient ways may have included mostly forgotten Nochet things from before the Great Darkness.

I suppose that part of Belintar's projects were the revival of the Lhankor Mhy and Chalana Arroy temples, even though he also pulled a lot of scholars and knowledge to his City of Wonders.

 

Belintar's victory over the Only Old One destroyed the above-ground portion of the Obsidian Palace when the Lead Serpent summoned by the Night Dragon Society crushed that spire in its death throes. (I have seen a lot of flat statements that Belintar destroyed that structure. He did, but only indirectly, and we cannot say whether he did so on purpose or in desperate self defense.)

Afterwards, Belintar raised his City of Wonders. His magical bridge to Esrolia appears to have been anchored at Pedastal, just south of Nochet, which would have helped raise the importance of that city.

There were dissidents against Belintar's ascension in Esrolia, too. After Colymar had proven that Dragon Pass was not an immediate kill zone any more, thousands of Esrolians hopefully migrated northward, only to be enslaved by the Grazelanders who roamed all of Dragon Pass (not claimed by Beast Folk, dragonewts, tusk riders, elves and trolls) at that time, although the modern Grazelands appear to have been their favorite pastures - possibly the site of their subjugation under Ironhoof after fleeing from Alavan Argay. Anyway, this is how the majority of the Vendref established themselves in Dragon Pass (the rest would have been unlucky immigrants from north of the Crossline). Unlike in the Quivini lands, the tribute taken by their horse nomad overlords stunted their population growth, although initial numbers of immigrants may have exceeded immigration from Heortland.

*

Belintar established his secular rule through governors. History of the Heortling Peoples has two pages (86-87) on his reign, though with a focus on Heortland. P.85 states that Esrolia had several governors, as he divided the land up - presumably into the four divisions shown on the political map in the Guide (p.245), i.e. North and South Esrolia, Longsi Land, and the North Marches.

 

 

 

[jajagappa]

9 hours ago, None said:

That still doesn't tel mel what Belintar's relationship to all of this because I could read it as Belintar being the ruler of all the above areras but I'm pretty convinced Esrolia is an indepedent country ruled over by its Queen and the Grandmothers, both who answer to no one (except that you even as the Queen really souldn't anger the Grrandmothers).

So what is Belintars role in all of this?

Joerg's discussed some of the nature of Esrolia above so I won't repeat that here.

Belintar was a man of unknown origin who swam ashore in the Rightarm Islands out of the Closing (i.e. when no travel was possible across the seas).  No one could discover his origins (though the Only Old One tried very hard to do so).  [Note: nor do we know, or can know, and if Jeff knows, he's not saying.  That is simply one of the mysteries of Glorantha.]

Through heroquesting through the Sixths, Belintar proved he was the God-king of the Holy Country, a deity-ruler over all six of the lands.  The God-king comprised all six elements (including the Moon Rune).  [Note: if you've not read the Prince of Sartar comic, chapter 3, I recommend that as a starting point. http://www.princeofsartar.com/comic/introduction-chapter-3/ ]

Was there ever in the God Time a ruler of the Holy Country?  Unknown, yet Belintar proved his place in the God Time and proved himself the ruler of this land.  And the entire Holy Country, including Esrolia, was both of the mundane world and part of the magical Otherworld while he ruled.  He ruled Esrolia, as well as the other 5 lands, because he demonstrated that he was part of the God Time and had ruled the lands then.  He subsequently ruled for 300 years, and as a god, he could be in multiple places at once including as a participant in the holiest rites of each of the six regions.  He also demonstrated he could wield the magics of any of these lands, raising the City of Wonders, creating the magical roads, raising the Pedestal in Esrolia, shattering the Palace of Black Glass in the Shadow Plateau, etc.  All leaders and the deities in each of the Sixths accepted him (and those that didn't like some of the Heortlings left).

[scott-martin]

7 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Was there ever in the God Time a ruler of the Holy Country? 

This is a great meditation for all surviving MOLAD enthusiasts and even OOO loyalists to pursue. Lately I lean toward saying that every Country was Holy if you go back far enough . . . but the peoples around the Choralinthor remembered that dream a little better when they woke up. Their Holiness remained closer to the surface at the Dawn and survived within Time. Call it historical accident or magico-political agenda, luck or fate. 

Maybe OOO represented a somewhat different organic confederation of nations, a different "country." (There's always another country.) Maybe some of these countries were "holy" at various times and had something like a sacred and holy king or queen. Maybe they'll receive one in the future. I have my hopes for Esrolia, Caladra, the esoteric kingdom of Malkonwal and probably other local houses of the Holy. The Heortlandish tried and it was a disaster.

Why here? This is where he washed up and so it was the expression of his teaching. His authority extended exactly so far and no farther. Esrolia was Holy to the extent to which it was within that mythic radius . . . but otherwise, the profane system of grandmothers bickering over nomes was also always going on day by day underneath the Belintar symbolic overlay. He made it worth their while. Ditto the other sixths, each according to their elemental ecology. 

Stand in the place where you are. (Now face west.) 

[Eff]

It has just occurred to me that one particular manifestation of the six-slice pizza that is the Holy Country in the material world is the layout of the core Disneyland parks: six themed areas laid out in a supposed circle around the central palace of wonders. Of course, the actual Disney parks follow this shape only on maps, and there are all kinds of tricks of liminality played by the Imagineers/Masters of Luck and Death to carefully blend the Sixths together. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, beyond the combination of pure artifice and control with spontaneous discovery of the proper terrain, but it certainly seems that if we understand the Holy Country as an effort at a totally shaped environment, then another reason for Lunar hostility emerges. (Really, a couple of them, but let's not get into magical duels between different strands of 20th-century artistic thought here...)

[soltakss]

There is a post on Facebook that mentions Larnste's footprint as being the Chaos Sixth, or as I prefer to call it, the Seventh Sixth.

[scott-martin]

11 minutes ago, Eff said:

magical duels between different strands of 20th-century artistic thought

Love it. Yeah, there's a component of simulacrum or "anywhere out of this world" to the MOLAD experience. And yeah, what has me wound up is the deep textual evidence that for centuries the original cold war symbolic conflict wasn't Sartar / Peloria or Red Moon / Sheng or even EWF / God Learner but Holy Country / Red Moon. These were the magico-cultural superpowers and one of them implodes first, leaving the emergent Sartar current behind as the next front.

Edited April 4, 2021 by scott-martin

[jajagappa]

14 minutes ago, Eff said:

one particular manifestation of the six-slice pizza that is the Holy Country in the material world is the layout of the core Disneyland parks

The horror, the horror!  😱

15 minutes ago, Eff said:

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, beyond the combination of pure artifice and control with spontaneous discovery of the proper terrain

Clearly into a landscape of madness... 😉

9 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

but Holy Country / Red Moon. These were the magico-cultural superpowers and one of them implodes first

Belintar as the shadow of the Red Emperor?  Belintar as Yelmgatha falling back to the world after escaping Moonson's trap?  Belintar as Doskalos after his "death" at Castle Blue (that one might have some interesting connection to the Sea)? 

35 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

Lately I lean toward saying that every Country was Holy if you go back far enough . . . but the peoples around the Choralinthor remembered that dream a little better when they woke up.

Given the Water connection and the image of Belintar lying in his ship, I've wondered at times if Belintar doesn't connect with Faralinthor?  We tend to ignore that time and place (other than Faralinthor being slain by Umath/Orlanth), but it's a very calm, harmonious sea left behind for some period of time during the Storm Age.

[Nevermet]

I don't have much to add, but I like the Red Moon / God-King parallels & tensions.  Another layer of that comparison is that both try to replace something else of mythical / elemental significance: The Moon tries to take over the Middle Air, and Belintar kills the OOO.

[None]

So as I understand it Belintar is more or less the pohysical god of the Holy Country and its ultimate ruler but he mostly lets each region manage themselves?

 

The first and until now the only time I really heard about Belintar was in King of Dargon Pass (where he was called the Pharao) and had taken over Heortland and now ruled over it with his wierd cadre of sorcerers.

When I heard of Esrolia (in Hero Quest I think) I don't remember having sen any  real mention of Belintar beyond he maybe having taken som of their distant outliying lands far away from Esrolia propper. Wich was  ruled by the Queen of Nochet and the Grandmothers.

 

--

About the Grandmothes. They're the heads of the most influential noble families in Esrolia, right? They're also high-priestesses of Ernalda? I have a little bit of trouble understanding this one because aren't Ernalda priestesses who pass menopause suposed to abdicate into Asrelia? A cult that exist beneath or at least to the side of the Ernalda cult as some kind of retirement?

I distinctly remember that back in Hero Quest there was one High Priestess in Sartar. The one in Clearwine temple I believe. Who was getting old and the other priestesses wher whispering about how she really should abdicate but she was stubbornly clinging to her position of authority dute to being really ambitious.

So the Grandmothes of Esrolia, are they Priestesses of Ernalda or Asrelia? Or am I beeing tricked by the word grandmother into thinking they're much olderthan they actually are? Or does all of this work differently in Esrolia?

[Hijabg]

11 hours ago, Eff said:

the Holy Country in the material world is the layout of the core Disneyland parks: six themed areas laid out in a supposed circle around the central palace of wonders.

 

Like this famous map of The City of Wonders and the Holy Country
(schematic aerial view, as seen from Leonardo's famous Pedalcopter, which is said to be based on Feldichi plans)

Spoiler

 

By the way, could the Feldichi be linked to the Gift Carriers ? I was just checking to make sure I had the proper spelling and stumbled upon this from Greg and Jeff Richard:

And the Feldichi were neither men nor gods. They were treacherous beings whose gifts invariable doomed the recipient. Many refer to them as the "damned Feldichi, fathers of ogres, canibals and seducers, they tricked the dwarfs in a contest of crafting - and won!" That's why the dwarfs hate them so and why their gifts are so deadly to their recipients.

 

 

[David Scott]

I post some of Greg's maps of the city of Wonder's here:

 

[soltakss]

3 hours ago, None said:

About the Grandmothes. They're the heads of the most influential noble families in Esrolia, right? They're also high-priestesses of Ernalda? I have a little bit of trouble understanding this one because aren't Ernalda priestesses who pass menopause suposed to abdicate into Asrelia? A cult that exist beneath or at least to the side of the Ernalda cult as some kind of retirement?

They are probably High Priestesses of Asrelia, but some might still be High priestesses of Ernalda. 

3 hours ago, None said:

Or am I beeing tricked by the word grandmother into thinking they're much olderthan they actually are?

Grandmothers might be a similar term to Elders, so signifying people with a lot of experience, but might not be that old.

Having a child at 18 means you could be a Grandmother by 37 and still be of child-bearing age. Earlier childbirth means younger Grandmothers.

3 hours ago, None said:

Or does all of this work differently in Esrolia?

Yes, it probably does.

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, None said:

So as I understand it Belintar is more or less the pohysical god of the Holy Country and its ultimate ruler but he mostly lets each region manage themselves?

More or less, as long as they make a harmonious whole (i.e. they aren't attacking each other).  However, he has tribute requirements, participates in their rituals, and likely has various schemes and plans underway at any given point in time that will have requirements from one or more of the regions.

Underneath, government in each region is through his Governors.  In Esrolia, he largely lets them determine their Queen who also is his Governor.  In Heortland, though, he always appoints the Governor.  In God Forgot, it will be the Talar of Talar Hold.  Not explicitly spelled out yet for the other regions.

6 hours ago, None said:

About the Grandmothes. They're the heads of the most influential noble families in Esrolia, right? They're also high-priestesses of Ernalda? I have a little bit of trouble understanding this one because aren't Ernalda priestesses who pass menopause suposed to abdicate into Asrelia? A cult that exist beneath or at least to the side of the Ernalda cult as some kind of retirement?

For the Grandmothers, if you think of a cross between a mafia godfather and a bedouin sheikh, you're on the right track.  They rule the noble houses (i.e. clans in other lands).  They will generally be Asrelia priestesses as well, which mean they control the treasuries.  They are not the high priestesses of Ernalda.  Those are their daughters, and there is an ongoing tension between the noble houses as to whose daughter becomes such a high priestess (aka Queen of a city, and sometimes Esrolia). 

Sometimes, the high priestess/Queen is powerful enough that she dictates, but she is also involved in all the ritual requirements of office, maintaining one or more husbands, and whatever else she needs to do.  And in the end, leaves most of the day-to-day management of the houses/families to the Grandmothers.

(And never think of the Asrelia priestesses as "retired".  Maybe Dayzatar goes off to some retirement tower, but the Asrelian grandmothers are very busy planning, scheming, and otherwise managing the affairs of their house, family, ancestors, and client houses.)

[Sir_Godspeed]

33 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

For the Grandmothers, if you think of a cross between a mafia godfather and a bedouin sheikh, you're on the right track.  They rule the noble houses (i.e. clans in other lands).  They will generally be Asrelia priestesses as well, which mean they control the treasuries. 

Don't they control the granaries as well?

Edited April 5, 2021 by Sir_Godspeed

[jajagappa]

Just now, Sir_Godspeed said:

Don't they control the granaries as well?

Yes, that's part of the "treasure"! 🙂

[None]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

(And never think of the Asrelia priestesses as "retired".  Maybe Dayzatar goes off to some retirement tower, but the Asrelian grandmothers are very busy planning, scheming, and otherwise managing the affairs of their house, family, ancestors, and client houses.)

The reson I've been thinking of them as retired is because of that bit I read about Clearwhine (I think it was Clearwine) where the other Ernalda priestesses wanted the current High Priestess outr of the way but she refused to abdicae. It made it sound like the Asrelia cult is subservient to the Ernalda cult and more of a retirement center for priestesses that could no longer exemplify Ernalda.

Especially because you were expected to move on to Asrelia but the current High Priestess didnt wan to and it's Ernalda who is the Queen of the Earth not her mother (who dosn't even get that much of attention as a cult in any of the game material I've seen, it's always Ernalda).

[scott-martin]

2 minutes ago, None said:

It made it sound like the Asrelia cult is subservient to the Ernalda cult and more of a retirement center for priestesses that could no longer exemplify Ernalda.

I don't know about these ladies but driving any fertile woman, especially an active and ornery priestess, into the crone zone is a good way to invite serious curse reprisals from all parties. It infuriates the mother and distracts the crones, which amounts to the same thing in the end. Of course it happens even in Glorantha because ambitious people rarely think through all the implications of what they're doing.

In my general experience everything looks like Ernalda when you're in the prime of life. Aging is how you are initiated into the knowledge that the mother is only the queen of the world to her children . . . the really deep earth allows her that much prestige but no further. These are some of the secrets Belintar somehow managed to glean despite being formed as a boy, by the way. Somehow he was already there in the rite. And he knew how to come back from it.

[jajagappa]

18 minutes ago, None said:

The reson I've been thinking of them as retired is because of that bit I read about Clearwhine (I think it was Clearwine) where the other Ernalda priestesses wanted the current High Priestess outr of the way but she refused to abdicae. It made it sound like the Asrelia cult is subservient to the Ernalda cult and more of a retirement center for priestesses that could no longer exemplify Ernalda.

Of course Asrelia is subservient to Ernalda - Ernalda is the fertile Earth, the source of Life (and Queen of the World).  Asrelia cannot bring forth new life, but she still has powers of wisdom, advice, etc.

If you think about the types of rituals that Ernalda (i.e. the High Priestess) has to perform, they include Fertility rites with her husband-consort with the intent that she become pregnant as part of the annual renewal of Life in the world.  If the High Priestess has reached a point where she is no longer fertile, and cannot prove her fertility, it is time for her to retire and a new High Priestess to take over. 

Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes is probably where you read that bit.  The high priestess is depicted as older, and probably ready to retire.  If you look at the RQG Adventures booklet with Clearwine, you'll find the High Priestess is now much younger - someone who can actively participate in these rituals.

 

[Sir_Godspeed]

This isn't a great analogy, because the divisions of power are very different, but it's *tempting* to think of the priestesses of Asrelia as sort of a Supreme Court to the Executive Branch of the priestesses of Ernalda. The latter looks a lot more exciting and dynamic, and is the public face of most things, but the former - and the age thing is sorta applicable too, by coincidence - has some pretty severe abilities to shape what the Ernaldans can and cannot get away with. 

It's a strained analogy, but it might aid in some things. 

(Of course, in Esrolia, this gets especially muddy since the Asrelian Grandmothers are at the same time really acting as a pseudo-parliament as well as dynastic heads as well).

[French Desperate WindChild]

6 hours ago, soltakss said:

Grandmothers might be a similar term to Elders, so signifying people with a lot of experience, but might not be that old.

Having a child at 18 means you could be a Grandmother by 37 and still be of child-bearing age. Earlier childbirth means younger Grandmothers.

We can have (I have no gloranthan lore about that, so maybe we cannot because there is only one way) several perspective about "grandmother"

Is it a mother of mother  ? (then can be Ernalda priestess by nature and activity)

Is it a mother who cannot be mother anymore (cannot stay Ernalda priestess  so become Asrelia priestess by nature)

Is it a mother who keep the memory, secret, and power but can give birth (so Asrelia priestess by activity, but could be Ernalda priestess by nature, why not cumulate both)

 

[None]

21 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

It's a strained analogy, but it might aid in some things. 

It actually helped make sense of the siuation a lot, especially when you ad id in the grandmothers essentially beeing the godmothers of their houses.

@jajagappa mentioned how the cities of Esrolia re ruled by queens who are High Priestesses of Ernalda but what about Ezel? According to the core book it isn't ruled by a Quen but a council of grandmothers.

Edit:

I've been wondering. Does an aspect or version of Ernalda that is more concerned with urban life exist? I mean , yes she is an Earth Goddess, but she is also a huge and very wide spread goddess ands I'm assuming the way she is presented in the Runquest core book is focused on the waythat Sartarites see her but the Esroilas while certainly interested in the part of Ernalda that is about life growing from the land.

An Ernalda priestess born to a great house in Nochet, for instance would potetially be less interested in the prts of Ernalda that is lets say Bless Crops and more interested in theaspects of her that are more relataböe to life in a city and court or temple intrigue.

Edited April 6, 2021 by None

[MOB]

On 4/5/2021 at 4:36 AM, Eff said:

It has just occurred to me that one particular manifestation of the six-slice pizza that is the Holy Country in the material world is the layout of the core Disneyland parks: six themed areas laid out in a supposed circle around the central palace of wonders. Of course, the actual Disney parks follow this shape only on maps, and there are all kinds of tricks of liminality played by the Imagineers/Masters of Luck and Death to carefully blend the Sixths together. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, beyond the combination of pure artifice and control with spontaneous discovery of the proper terrain, but it certainly seems that if we understand the Holy Country as an effort at a totally shaped environment, then another reason for Lunar hostility emerges. (Really, a couple of them, but let's not get into magical duels between different strands of 20th-century artistic thought here...)

This deserves to be in the Your Dumbest Theory thread, and I mean that as a compliment.