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Wallace: "So you see, Gromit, now any time we may get ambushed, we can say aloud 'I don't like the look of this' and it triggers a condition on a bound spirit that will auto-cast a Control Spirit spel

On the other hand, I don't think I would play Fireblade as being active. Back in the playtest draft stage I was really surprised to see that it was active in what was then RQ4 but became RQG, but when

Made a dagger/matrix out of an allosaur tooth from the elder wilds once.  Why?  Because it was cool.

I had a PC that was offered a reward for exceptional service doing Humakt stuff. The PC ended up contributing 5 or 6 POW, though it may have been upwards of 9 for a big Spirit Magic Matrix. 

The whole Matrix eventually consisted of Coordination + Mobilitiy + Strength all linked to be cast together with the Link Spell Condition. Effectively turning it into one Big Spirit Spell worth 5 MP that took Dex SR + 4 SR to cast. The entire Enchantment had Linked Spells, and a condition that it could only be used by at least initiates of Humakt. This cost a total of 5 POW in spells, 2 POW in Conditions, and 1 POW to Link all the Spells because it was all done at once, or so our GM ruled. There was also an additional point of POW for Enchanting the Iron for the Segmented Plates within which the enchantment was being made. I think that brought it to 8 POW for Spirit Spells and Enchantment optimization, and 1 POW for the Enchant Iron, any extra POW the GM handwaved as rewards.  Combined with Multispell 3 the entire front-line of the party would become a formidable shock force instantly. The PC eventually called it Humakt's War Wind. 

The plan was to eventually add Power crystals to the enchantment that were linked to the spell, and then depending on how the GM ruled I was going to add an Attack Condition that targetted anyone Initiated to Humakt that gave a traditional Sword Salute, to make it instant and self powered. By putting spirits in the crystals it would regen power as well. 

The whole party threw down 1 or 2 POW apiece right when the first Wind Sword/Lord got online and we made a crazy huge POW 12 Teleport Matrix. Which became the central party artifact basically. We became well known for teleporting 8 dudes into the back line of the enemy or escaping from ridiculously sticky situations which should most DEFINITELY have killed us. The Orlanthi Wind Lord in question our the enchantment into his Iron Large Shield, so the whole party could touch it most easily, and so it would be durable. 

Otherwise most of our matrices would come from looted objects. Occasionally we would be allowed to barter for one or very occassionally buy one. 

Carefully reading the enchanting rules and also infering powers and abilities from different Gloranthan stories has given us some cool ideas. I still want to make a PC that has Flaming Javelins on Firey Cords the rell back in automatically while the PC leaps around. It is from a short story Greg wrote, I think. I always mention it when thinking of the whacky things a PC might do in Glorantha. 

 

I have been wanting to recreate the Avengers in RQ as a crazy eccentric Hero Band some PCs might encounter if they get overpowered someday. I think you could totally do it with enchantments right out of the rulebook. Lol. 

Edited by HreshtIronBorne
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8 hours ago, icebrand said:

Has any of your PCs, ever, spent pow in making a spirit magic matrix?

In RQ2 and RQ3 yes, all the while. in RQG, no, because I have only played it a couple of times at conventions.

8 hours ago, icebrand said:

If so, why? 

To free the points so they don't need to be stored in mind.

To allow other PCs to use the spell.

To allow for faster casting of the spell (we played that spells in Matrices went off at SR1, or rather DEX SR+1)

For trade, but that was minor as it was easier to trade matrices liberated from the corpses of our foes.

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Interesting question. No, I've never seen a player do this. It does seem to me that spirit spell matrixes are right at the bottom end of useful things to spend POW on.

So the next question begged is, where do they all come from?

I think RuneQuest would benefit from an "extreme crafting" mechanic. A system for crafting exceptionally high quality items that are imbued with magic by the crafting process. L5R has a reasonably good system for that, I seem to remember.

Maybe something as simple as, if you roll a critical success on the crafting roll, the item is imbued with an appropriate enchantment worth 1 POW. You can then roll again, and if you get a critical again, add 1 more POW. Keep on rolling. Or, maybe the second and subsequent only need to be special successes. Also, maybe allow the crafter to add their own POW to boost the enchantment - so you craft a sword, you get a critical success on Craft (Redsmith), and you can add a Strength spell matrix for 1 POW instead of the usual 2. A crit followed by a special, and you can get Bladesharp 4 for the price of 2. Maybe 1 for a special, 2 for a critical, and criticals allow re-rolls. High quality materials and/or magical circumstances may be required to allow this to happen.

Where does this POW come from? Maybe from a wyter. Maybe from a local spirit that has taken interest in the process, and is so impressed that they imbue it with some of their POW. Maybe just from the cosmic background POW. Maybe from the Chaosium that lies at the centre of all universes.

Does this cheapen magic items, make them a bit mundane and mass-produced? Maybe, so use with caution in your game if that concerns you. Consult the various plunder-like supplements for examples of crafted magical items.

Edited by PhilHibbs
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The God Learners could literally print magic items like the Second Age was D&D with whole armies having +1 or +2 magical swords and armors. It isn't like mega efficient magical projects haven't been done in Glorantha before. 

 

I personally love the feel and flavor of spirits working with craftsmen to create a Masterwork. Sometimes things turn out better than you'd  hoped. I would especially encourage players to find exotic materials and magically resonant places to make the greatest works possible. Whole adventures in and of themselves. Then you can add the whole layering of HeroQuesting into it and have This World and even Otherworld smithing quests. 

 

Also, that guy soltakss up there has a whole website with some of the most wonderfully flavorful, powerful, and sometimes a teeny but OP ideas for magical items that a PC could definitely create with the RAW for RQG. 

 

One of my favorites is a box with either a Fireblade matrix and linked Attack Condition to cast fireblades on whatever sword gets thrust into the container, or it is powered by some spirit. Either way I think it would definitely be a functional magical item that makes Fireblade WAY easier to cast on a whole group. And if you haven't impaled or slashed with a fireblade then, have you ever really lived?

Edited by HreshtIronBorne
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22 hours ago, icebrand said:

Hi guys, i have a question:

Has any of your PCs, ever, spent pow in making a spirit magic matrix?

If so, why? 

Also, I'd like to hear about your PCs self-made enchants, please share!

Made a dagger/matrix out of an allosaur tooth from the elder wilds once.  Why?  Because it was cool.

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1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

I think RuneQuest would benefit from an "extreme crafting" mechanic. A system for crafting exceptionally high quality items that are imbued with magic by the crafting process. L5R has a reasonably good system for that, I seem to remember.

I would like to see a runespell from crafting gods doing that

something like

" bless exceptional item " 1 point / touch / permanent / stackable (max 3)

the spell must be cast before any craft roll

if the craft roll is a special success each point gives a 1 POW enchant

if the craft roll is a critical success each point gives a 1.5 POW enchant (  3points => 5 POW)

if the craft roll is a success, a failure or a fumble, the spell is casted without any effect

 

or

" bless exceptional item " 1 point / touch / permanent / stackable (max 3

the spell must be cast before any craft roll

for each spell point you casted, roll a craft roll.

Each special success gives a 1 POW enchant, each critical success gives a 2 points enchants

succes or failure gives no enchant.

a fumble breaks the item

 

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22 hours ago, icebrand said:

Has any of your PCs, ever, spent pow in making a spirit magic matrix?

In RQ3, yes, a lot. Most of our characters were full in Spirit spells, and created matrixes to free up some space. There is the added advantage to allow giving the matrix to another member of the group. We also created matrix with Magic Point reserves linked, and conditions on the casting, because it allowed instant casting with no roll. I had a sword which, when held and the wielder called for Orlanth's help, had an automatic cast of Bladesharp 4, Strength 3 and Coordination 3. Quite expensive (15 POW total), but very effective.

In RQG, I did it once. My character is an Aeolian sorceror, and is creating matrix with his spirit spells to increase his free INT.

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23 hours ago, icebrand said:

Hi guys, i have a question:

Has any of your PCs, ever, spent pow in making a spirit magic matrix?

If so, why? 

Also, I'd like to hear about your PCs self-made enchants, please share!

Yes, I have done so a few times.  Back in RQ2 days, you got a price in the thousands for the right matrix, and I was occasionally high on POW but short on cash.

More recently I had shennanigans involving my Chalana Arroy gangster character and a Sleep Matrix she created that was used to get one of her enemies, a snoopy Issaries priest chucked out of her cult for offending the Chalana Arroys by using prohibited cult magic.  It also involved shelling out hard earned cash/ill-gotten gains for a Divination Block at an exhorbitant price when the whole scheme nearly blew up in my character's face.  

It is also often handy for a party to have a Healing 6 matrix for when limbs go flying, as few people have enough dedicated space in their CHA for 6 points of a spell, and a matrix can basically be thrown to them or dropped into their hands (or hand if it was an arm that went flying) while someone defends them for a round.

The same applies for spells like Bladesharp 6+, and any spell that is periodically very useful but not quite worth dedicating your CHA to, like Lightwall, Dispel Magic or Visibility, or Multimissile.

 

 

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6 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Interesting question. No, I've never seen a player do this. It does seem to me that spirit spell matrixes are right at the bottom end of useful things to spend POW on.

So the next question begged is, where do they all come from?

I think RuneQuest would benefit from an "extreme crafting" mechanic. A system for crafting exceptionally high quality items that are imbued with magic by the crafting process. L5R has a reasonably good system for that, I seem to remember.

Maybe something as simple as, if you roll a critical success on the crafting roll, the item is imbued with an appropriate enchantment worth 1 POW. You can then roll again, and if you get a critical again, add 1 more POW. Keep on rolling. Or, maybe the second and subsequent only need to be special successes. Also, maybe allow the crafter to add their own POW to boost the enchantment - so you craft a sword, you get a critical success on Craft (Redsmith), and you can add a Strength spell matrix for 1 POW instead of the usual 2. A crit followed by a special, and you can get Bladesharp 4 for the price of 2. Maybe 1 for a special, 2 for a critical, and criticals allow re-rolls. High quality materials and/or magical circumstances may be required to allow this to happen.

Where does this POW come from? Maybe from a wyter. Maybe from a local spirit that has taken interest in the process, and is so impressed that they imbue it with some of their POW. Maybe just from the cosmic background POW. Maybe from the Chaosium that lies at the centre of all universes.

Does this cheapen magic items, make them a bit mundane and mass-produced? Maybe, so use with caution in your game if that concerns you. Consult the various plunder-like supplements for examples of crafted magical items.

Sounds like a thing to go into the GMs book... Or a part of the crafter gods in the cults book.

Certainly the ability for crafters to have higher quality items should be in GMs.

And the relevant Rune metals should make associated enchantments easier.

Crafters having the magical knowledge (Rune spell) to make enchanting easier also makes sense in such a mythical and magical world. Presumably at Rune Master level.. 

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On 4/10/2021 at 7:51 AM, icebrand said:

Hi guys, i have a question:

Has any of your PCs, ever, spent pow in making a spirit magic matrix?

If so, why? 

Also, I'd like to hear about your PCs self-made enchants, please share!

TBH, I don't see the point, unless you want that linkage.

You're in all ways better off to do a Spirit Binding matrix, and have the spirit cast the spell. Especially since a) it's faster,  b) allows you to do other actions on the same round, and the awesome c) you don't spend your MPs (added to d) the spirit replenishes them themselves).

There's a post only one possible downside (others stealing the spirit), and that can be fixed with a user condition.

Sure, there will be the occasional times when it's not as advantageous (low CHA), but they should be rare. Besides which, if you find and bind the right spirit, you'll have multiple spells available, as well as Rune spells - and not only from your own cult)

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I am not sure how different GMs play bounc spirits. According to a rather strict reading of the rules as written getting a bound spirit to cast a single spell could take up to a round or two. You first have to cast a command spell at the spirit in the binding and direct it to go about casting spells. Once it leaves the binding to see stuff then it is completely open to being messed with by opposing magicians. Maybe even getting jacked by a shaman. You then would spend your time and concentration directiong the spirit to buff you or others. The exception in our Glorantha are Allied spirits which are specifically in a psychic link with their priest/Rune-Lord and can cast spells through each other. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Revilo Divad Of Dyoll said:

Made a dagger/matrix out of an allosaur tooth from the elder wilds once.  Why?  Because it was cool.

Yes, because it was cool is another good reason.

In our RQ2/RQ3 campaign, Derak the Dark Troll had become a living lead skeleton, so bound three wraiths to his bones, so they would continually whirl around him, so purely as a cool special effect.

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16 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Interesting question. No, I've never seen a player do this. It does seem to me that spirit spell matrixes are right at the bottom end of useful things to spend POW on.

Yes, so much this. Like, some people do them to free int/cha or to pass around the spell. I'm shocked they spend 5+ pow (some even spent 10+?) For a spirit matrix... Imho no spirit spell is worth POW; my players always used spirits or just picked their spells more carefully If they didn't have access to.

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8 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

I am not sure how different GMs play bounc spirits. According to a rather strict reading of the rules as written getting a bound spirit to cast a single spell could take up to a round or two. You first have to cast a command spell at the spirit in the binding and direct it to go about casting spells. Once it leaves the binding to see stuff then it is completely open to being messed with by opposing magicians. Maybe even getting jacked by a shaman. You then would spend your time and concentration directiong the spirit to buff you or others. The exception in our Glorantha are Allied spirits which are specifically in a psychic link with their priest/Rune-Lord and can cast spells through each other. 

What you describe is a magic spirit. Int spirits (and spirits in classic) do not cast magic, they are reservoirs of INT/POW. 

In classic the spirit only served as mp/int storage. They were "free" to bind (you needed a cult animal or spirit crystal, and maybe you died trying to fight the spirit).

There is no "control" spell for classic.

In rq3 they were the same, only that the was a specific spirit for int (1d6 int) and a specific spirit for pow (2d6+3). They were 2 and 1 pow, and pretty harmless to fight.

So, matrix is 1 pow/spell point, bound int spirit is 2 points for 1-6 spell points (and you can keep summoning in your spare time until you get 6 pts maybe).

Yes technically another guy with the appropriate spell and magic sight spell can control them, but you can just slap a condition... Or you know, have like up to 24 free INT for the cost of a single 4 point spell and let them control your spirits. I'm pretty sure the chances of you killing the enemy while they spend 4 rounds making spirits go away is greater than the chance of killing them with +4 free int and the enemy fighting you.

 

 

 

Edited by icebrand
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5 hours ago, icebrand said:

Yes, so much this. Like, some people do them to free int/cha or to pass around the spell. I'm shocked they spend 5+ pow (some even spent 10+?) For a spirit matrix... Imho no spirit spell is worth POW; my players always used spirits or just picked their spells more carefully If they didn't have access to.

You go to 10+ when using conditions, linked spells and magic point storage. That allows for effect you can't have without doing it. In the case I have described, for 15 POW, you have a sword that casts instantly and without roll Bladesharp 4, Strength 3 and Coordination 3 when you decide it, and the magic points are already stored for 2 uses. You just have to refill when needed. When casting the spells, you need 10 SR if the matrix are linked, 3 rounds if you know the spells ore the matrix are not linked.

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24 minutes ago, Kloster said:
5 hours ago, icebrand said:

Yes, so much this. Like, some people do them to free int/cha or to pass around the spell. I'm shocked they spend 5+ pow (some even spent 10+?) For a spirit matrix... Imho no spirit spell is worth POW; my players always used spirits or just picked their spells more carefully If they didn't have access to.

You go to 10+ when using conditions, linked spells and magic point storage. That allows for effect you can't have without doing it. In the case I have described, for 15 POW, you have a sword that casts instantly and without roll Bladesharp 4, Strength 3 and Coordination 3 when you decide it, and the magic points are already stored for 2 uses. You just have to refill when needed. When casting the spells, you need 10 SR if the matrix are linked, 3 rounds if you know the spells ore the matrix are not linked.

Kloster's point is really what made us consider it. With CHA limiting RP you can only ever spend so much POW that way. 

 

The Strength + Coordination + mobikity matrix for example takes  DEX Sr +4 to cast, which gets all 3 of those spells up in one round. Then there are spells much too big or unwieldy to keep in your free int. Why keep 2-6 free CHA for dispel magic when it can be in an item?

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15 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

I am not sure how different GMs play bounc spirits. According to a rather strict reading of the rules as written getting a bound spirit to cast a single spell could take up to a round or two.

I don't think so. Check my recent Q&A questions, and David's answers (for example, this).

Either way, the OP is about Spell Matrices. I think that one point of Spell Matrices is to free up CHA: you spend a POW or two to store a "secondary spell" so you free up space for getting bigger versions of your most often used spells. You don't even have to spend all the POW yourself, you can collaborate with other PCs or with some temple priest NPC with which you have a strong enough Loyalty or Devotion. Another point of Spell Matrices is what @Kloster mentioned: build up, over time or in one go, some commonly used "cocktail" of spells that you can cast more efficiently. You can regain POW fast enough that I don't see why some people don't find that a good investment -- my guess is that it's a combination of player psychology (some are more conservative than others) and actual rules used at the table (since many of the enchantment rules are not super clear).

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27 minutes ago, lordabdul said:
16 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

I am not sure how different GMs play bounc spirits. According to a rather strict reading of the rules as written getting a bound spirit to cast a single spell could take up to a round or two.

I don't think so. Check my recent Q&A questions, and David's answers (for example, this).

Either way, the OP is about Spell Matrices. I think that one point of Spell Matrices is to free up CHA: you spend a POW or two to store a "secondary spell" so you free up space for getting bigger versions of your most often used spells. You don't even have to spend all the POW yourself, you can collaborate with other PCs or with some temple priest NPC with which you have a strong enough Loyalty or Devotion. Another point of Spell Matrices is what @Kloster mentioned: build up, over time or in one go, some commonly used "cocktail" of spells that you can cast more efficiently. You can regain POW fast enough that I don't see why some people don't find that a good investment -- my guess is that it's a combination of player psychology (some are more conservative than others) and actual rules used at the table (since many of the enchantment rules are not super clear).

Yep. After checking up on the rules Q&A Bound Spirit use is quite forgiving. After casting a single control spell from whatever school of magic on a bound spirit it will just listen to you from now on. Which makes it much easier than needing to command the bound spirits individually. I assume as long as you don't need them to target something other than you they don't even need to leave the binding which makes it extra safe. 

 

Still there are some reasons to invest POW in spirit magic matrices.

 

If you enchant a sword with fireblade and an attack condition to cast it on the sword when drawn and link MP storage to it, do you need to worry about fireblade being active anymore? 

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Amusingly one of my players in the Canberra game is a Gustbran Crafter cultist with enchantment rune spells (I did a home brew Gustbran on the understanding that’s the only cult that gives initiates access to enchantments).

He's been in play for nearly a year now game time but has yet to use the Between Adventures time to create any magical items. He has a high POW but is very reluctant to give up the skill category bonuses that come with that...

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10 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

If you enchant a sword with fireblade and an attack condition to cast it on the sword when drawn and link MP storage to it, do you need to worry about fireblade being active anymore?

In RQ3, no, because the sword cast the spell, not you. In RQG, I'm not sure.

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On 4/10/2021 at 4:24 PM, HreshtIronBorne said:

One of my favorites is a box with either a Fireblade matrix and linked Attack Condition to cast fireblades on whatever sword gets thrust into the container, or it is powered by some spirit.

A similar item I like is Ring of Speedart. 1 POW for the spell, 1 POW to link it to a POW Storing crystal (or burn another POW creating a Magic Point Enchantment), and 1 POW for the attack condition "when the enchantment touches an arrow." Wear the ring, make sure it touches your arrows as you fire, and free speedart for your first few arrows. Helps fire multiple times per round if your initial DEX SR is low enough, since you're not taking the time to cast the spell. Also good with Multimissile and Firearrow, but Speedart's cheaper, making it something you don't need to plan a long time to create.

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11 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

If you enchant a sword with fireblade and an attack condition to cast it on the sword when drawn and link MP storage to it, do you need to worry about fireblade being active anymore? 

I consider than for any spell (spirit / divine / sorcery)  what is required is what is required in all case, except if you sacrifice something.

 

CHA is required, but as you sacrifice POW for echantment, you save a part of CHA as described by @Kloster

fireblade "activity" is required, and I see nothing in the rules explaining you can sacrifice something to transfert this "activity" to the enchant (I m not talking about spirits, but about spell matrix). Now,  you can create a house rule that define a "cost" to save other requirements. (I don't but each table is different)

Maybe 1, 2 or 3 POW and the spell is active for the all duration

In this case  you should not be able to "stop" the activity when you want: you have to wait for the natural 2min duration spell ("please hide your flame, ennemies will see us" " I can't ! I can't... I don't decide anything" )

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11 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

If you enchant a sword with fireblade and an attack condition to cast it on the sword when drawn and link MP storage to it, do you need to worry about fireblade being active anymore? 

I don't think I'd allow an enchantment to auto-cast an active spell. Sure there's no rule that specifically says that, but it doesn't seem right to me.

You could say that the sword cast it, so if the sword clangs against another sword, it has to make a concentration roll to keep the spell up. As it has no INT, it has a 0% chance. But that is silly, reading the rules in a lawyerly fashion, which is not the intention of the designers.

Edited by PhilHibbs
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