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Mythologic mystery solved ? (Smoking Ruins spoilers)


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I apologize if this issue has already been discussed but while preparing to run The Smoking Ruins,

Spoiler

 

I came across the information below on page 87 in the frame titled "Ernalda's mirror fragment" :

672751172_Capturedcran2021-04-1016_03_29.png.1430c071eeb9c91c3004faad150ec47b.png

To me, this seems to be a definitive proof that Ginna Jar is actually Ernalda (or at least part of her). I don't remember having read that information so clearly elsewhere, and since it is supposed to be the very mirror that Orlanth has given to Ernalda as a wedding gift, I would say that the source is very trustworthy.

What do think ? Is the mystery of the identity of Ginna Jar solved ? 

 

 

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The issue is that gods can be more than one thing at once, and that things that are true of them in one place can be seemingly completely contradicted by the information you find about them elsewhere.

Spoiler

What this proves is that "Ginna Jar as Ernalda's Ghost" is a valid truth behind the mystery of her identity, but that's not necessarily the same as saying that we've "solved" Ginna Jar's mystery.

 

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  • Scotty changed the title to Mythologic mystery solved ? (Smoking Ruins spoilers)
1 hour ago, Manimati said:

Is the mystery of the identity of Ginna Jar solved ?

No, it is not definitive.  Ginna Jar is effectively the "wyter" of the Lightbringers.  She can represent the memories/dreams/wishes of important folk they have known, but does not have to. 

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A couple of things, not yet covered:

Spoiler

-As far as I can recall, the majority of divine relics in Glorantha are effectively "possessing" a material body. If the mirror in TSR is not the actual thing from Ernalda's hand, the body it's possessing might well have had that engraving placed upon it as a way to prepare the physical mirror for its divine inhabitant.

-It's also possible to engrave things on a mirror after the fact.

-The anthropological explanation: representations of Ginna Jar quite possibly look like that because of the belief that she was the ghost of Ernalda and the reuse of iconography associated with spiritual Ernalda for her.

 

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, jajagappa said:

No, it is not definitive.  Ginna Jar is effectively the "wyter" of the Lightbringers.  She can represent the memories/dreams/wishes of important folk they have known, but does not have to. 

The way I understand it is that Ginna Jar is standing in for all the stakeholders of the quest who are staying behind (Ernalda, Heler, Yinkin, Odayla, Urox, Elmal, Kolat, ...), supporting the quest and sending energy to the questers.

Spoiler

The mirror in TSR is thus an acknowledgment of Ernalda's role in supporting the Lighbringer's quest.

 

Edited by Manimati
typo
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4 hours ago, Manimati said:

who are staying behind (Ernalda, Heler, Yinkin, Odayla, Urox, Elmal, Kolat, ...), supporting the quest and sending energy to the questers.

She may also be a connection to the living, or a channel for the living to help enable the questers.  But for the LBQ, that would be living mortals, not the gods (most of those noted are already dead or sleeping in the Underworld).

GS p.118 does note Ginna Jar as the "ghost of Glorantha", sometimes personified as female, sometimes male, so does bear that spiritual aspect of the lost world as well.

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On 4/11/2021 at 6:05 AM, jajagappa said:

She may also be a connection to the living, or a channel for the living to help enable the questers.  But for the LBQ, that would be living mortals, not the gods (most of those noted are already dead or sleeping in the Underworld).

I always figured that was more Flesh Man's role, personally.

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9 minutes ago, Leingod said:

I always figured that was more Flesh Man's role, personally.

He could find/follow the trail IIRC, but I don't think he was worshipped, so wouldn't be the vehicle by which the questers could get aid from the surviving mortals of the world.

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3 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

He could find/follow the trail IIRC, but I don't think he was worshipped, so wouldn't be the vehicle by which the questers could get aid from the surviving mortals of the world.

Ah. I misunderstood then; I mean that Flesh Man is kind of the "universal ancestor" for human worshipers of the Lightbringers, being a son of Grandfather Mortal, with all that entails.

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