Backford Aeolian Campaign

[Jeff]

24 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

Kind of expanding on my heroquesting answer, as I understand it most heroquests are like putting on a play, but when you're done parts of the story you were telling remain as real things. Like say I heroquest King Arthur getting Excalibur - I wouldn't actually go back in time to some mythical England and pull Excalibur out of the lake, I'd go to a nearby lake that represents the one from the story and get a normal sword out of it. When the quest is over, the sword I got has been changed into something like Excalibur, I haven't gotten Excalibur itself.

Of course, that's really just a this-world quest, where all the magic is just overlayed on top of the mortal world. If I was feeling particularly brave or foolish I could do an otherworld quest, and actually enter the story as it endlessly recurs on the other side, but I'd still probably just get an enchanted version of a sword I brought with me, since the otherworld version isn't the original either, it's just an echo, a looping record ever degrading and warping. You have to go very deep to find a version of the story that's close enough to the original that it can retain substance when brought into our world, and that risks you losing yourself, your soul, your mind, or all of the above.

I hope that makes some sense, someone else please correct me if I made any major goofs.

I have been posting a tremendous amount of material on heroquesting recently on Facebook. Perhaps someone could post a summary in another thread.

[Erol of Backford]

41 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

If I recall correctly, the God Learners actually succeeded at taking the originals of godtime artifacts out of quests, not just copies, though that's one of the big things that led to them collapsing so spectacularly.

I am not up to speed on so many things, the God Learners "taking the originals" sounds like they got what was coming to them. Again I need about 15~20 years of catching up to do...

[Erol of Backford]

4 minutes ago, Jeff said:

I have been posting a tremendous amount of material on heroquesting recently on Facebook. Perhaps someone could post a summary in another thread.

Really sorry, Mr. Richard, I have not given into the "dark side" that is social media yet. Hopefully someone will post your Heroquesting info in another thread?!

[Joerg]

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Really sorry, Mr. Richard, I have not given into the "dark side" that is social media yet. Hopefully someone will post your Heroquesting info in another thread?!

You can read monthly collections on the Well of Daliath, or weekly annotated ones in the Journal of Runic Studies, a newsletter put together mostly by Ludovic from the God Learners podcast. Going to the source will offer some glimplse at the discussions, though, where Jeff will elaborate certain points.

[Scotty]

9 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Been using this system since the 80's?

@Erol of Backford Can I clarify which RQ system you are using, so the thread can be tagged as such. This will prevent any future confusion.

[Scotty]

5 hours ago, Jeff said:

I have been posting a tremendous amount of material on heroquesting recently on Facebook. Perhaps someone could post a summary in another thread.

5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Really sorry, Mr. Richard, I have not given into the "dark side" that is social media yet. Hopefully someone will post your Heroquesting info in another thread?!

They are on the Well of Daliath under the Facebook section.

If you want the Heroquest material use Jeff Facebook Heroquest (or something more specific) in the search bar.

[M Helsdon]

7 hours ago, Jeff said:

I have been posting a tremendous amount of material on heroquesting recently on Facebook. Perhaps someone could post a summary in another thread.

Have copied all recent posts into a new thread. Not a summary as I am wary of attempting that.

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by M Helsdon

[Grievous]

8 hours ago, Richard S. said:

Kind of expanding on my heroquesting answer, as I understand it most heroquests are like putting on a play, but when you're done parts of the story you were telling remain as real things. Like say I heroquest King Arthur getting Excalibur - I wouldn't actually go back in time to some mythical England and pull Excalibur out of the lake, I'd go to a nearby lake that represents the one from the story and get a normal sword out of it. When the quest is over, the sword I got has been changed into something like Excalibur, I haven't gotten Excalibur itself.

That's very well put.

I would also very much like to point out how much like roleplaying it is, so it opens into a meta-narrative tool (in fact, both in fiction as the experimental heroquesting of heroes and out of fiction as a narrative element that matches the act that's responsible for its creation).

[Erol of Backford]

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

@Erol of Backford Can I clarify which RQ system you are using, so the thread can be tagged as such. This will prevent any future confusion.

We are using mostly RQ3 with small bits of RQ2, with the Aeolians in the campaign we will be using a good bit of sorcery eventually. I do have most of the new material which I am loving, including many of the Drive Thru RPG books/PDF's submitted by others. Sooner or later we'll switch to the new system (we like the "rune" feel but have not integrated it yet). I am older and switching to something new takes a bit of time...

We are (very slowly getting started) based in the year 1600 and would run the campaign long term, into our real world retirements as we enjoyed the game immensely when we were much younger. We were so hooked many packages (anything that we could get our hands on) we shipped to Tokyo in the early 90's for us where we ran the campaign. We couldn't get enough! The setting will always have to be Glorantha.

Thank you for asking so it may be clarified... sorry to confuse anyone and Happy New Year's to all!

 

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

We are using mostly RQ3 with small bits of RQ2, with the Aeolians in the campaign we will be using a good bit of sorcery eventually. I do have most of the new material which I am loving, including many of the Drive Thru RPG books/PDF's submitted by others. Sooner or later we'll switch to the new system (we like the "rune" feel but have not integrated it yet). I am older and switching to something new takes a bit of time...

We are (very slowly getting started) based in the year 1600 and would run the campaign long term, into our real world retirements as we enjoyed the game immensely when we were much younger. We were so hooked many packages (anything that we could get our hands on) we shipped to Tokyo in the early 90's for us where we ran the campaign. We couldn't get enough! The setting will always have to be Glorantha.

Thank you for asking so it may be clarified... sorry to confuse anyone and Happy New Year's to all!

 

That's totally fine. But if you are trying to world build based on the assumptions in the RQ3 Sorcery rules, you will end up with something very different from published Glorantha.

[jajagappa]

16 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

But what if the PC's are Aeolians and they use sorcery and have homing circles... has anyone messed around with configuring a teleportation spell with a duration so it could be cast maybe as a ritual on a portal?

One of the issues/challenges with the RQ3 system is that it opens up possibilities (e.g. homing circles) that can drastically skew your game.  Suddenly you have homing circles in all your wizard-oriented cities, people teleporting around, and now you've shifted into sci-fi territory.  At least in my opinion it quickly loses the ancient feel of Glorantha.  YGWV.

16 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Oh, since Hero Quests go back in time so to speak are you not sort of "time traveling" while they are in progress?

No.  What you have done is stepped out of a Time-based mundane world into a non-Time-based Otherworld.  All events are present in the Otherworld.  Your rituals and actions put some "linearity" to the story, but you are not going back in time when you quest (or even when you celebrate during a given worship ceremony).

16 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

How do magics/powers, weapons or items come to physically exist in the "now" if they were not somehow if only in essence transported through time? Can someone explain how a physical item might appear or be generated so a Hero or PC might physically use it in the "now". I didn't play Hero Quest so I am not sure how it works, possibly I'll need to get the system and read up...

In one view, you might carry the item with you (e.g. your sword), and it becomes the host of what you bring back as a gift.  If you want to bring back a spirit or magic or gift, you might create an enchantment beforehand to hold it in.

13 hours ago, Richard S. said:

Of course, that's really just a this-world quest, where all the magic is just overlayed on top of the mortal world. If I was feeling particularly brave or foolish I could do an otherworld quest, and actually enter the story as it endlessly recurs on the other side, but I'd still probably just get an enchanted version of a sword I brought with me, since the otherworld version isn't the original either, it's just an echo, a looping record ever degrading and warping.

Yes, pretty much my approach.

[Erol of Backford]

26 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

In one view, you might carry the item with you (e.g. your sword), and it becomes the host of what you bring back as a gift.  If you want to bring back a spirit or magic or gift, you might create an enchantment beforehand to hold it in.

I like this, simple enough, thanks Jaja.

[Erol of Backford]

27 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

One of the issues/challenges with the RQ3 system is that it opens up possibilities (e.g. homing circles) that can drastically skew your game.  Suddenly you have homing circles in all your wizard-oriented cities, people teleporting around, and now you've shifted into sci-fi territory.  At least in my opinion it quickly loses the ancient feel of Glorantha.  YGWV.

To be honest, none of the PC's I have gamed/gamed with were ever strong enough to make homing circles/utilize sorcery to that level but the idea that the black Arkati or others have "a few" homing circles or portals make them even more mysterious. The PC's would struggle to figure out how someone might have moved place to place so quickly, if they witness it. For example, "hey, that guy you saw a week ago in Pavis, this guy looks a lot like him" as they are riding into some other town from a sort of forced march, or having flown... "How did they get here before we did" or that sort of thing.

Most of the high powered sorcery is/has been what "others" have.

No chance of Dorastan Feldichi technology becoming a common thing. The Ancient/Medieval isn't going anywhere though the Dwarves may show something futuristic once in a while.

Thank you all again for understanding!

[Ian_W]

16 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

To be honest, none of the PC's I have gamed/gamed with were ever strong enough to make homing circles/utilize sorcery to that level but the idea that the black Arkati or others have "a few" homing circles or portals make them even more mysterious.

 

One of the several issues with the God Learners is they made mundane what should have been special.

 

'Homing circles' and Guided Teleportation being routine is a very God Learner thing - it's the sort of thing that happens when you have a step by step guide to how to drink from the Cup of Victory, and then walk through Orlanth's path to Kero Fin and then be able to whisper into the ear of the ram where you want to go.

 

One of the truly great things about Mongoose's treatment of the Second Age of Glorantha is the way that they made NPCs treat that sort of stuff as if it was routine.

 

Note that Argrath walks that path, and uses Dragon magic of the EWF to boot. Beware violations of ancient wisdoms.

[soltakss]

On 12/31/2021 at 12:35 AM, Erol of Backford said:

How do magics/powers, weapons or items come to physically exist in the "now" if they were not somehow if only in essence transported through time? Can someone explain how a physical item might appear or be generated so a Hero or PC might physically use it in the "now".

Various people have different interpretations of this. Here is my take ...

At the Mythic Level, the Deities had certain objects, or items. So, Humakt and Orlanth both had the Sword Death, for example. Taking the Sword Death from one of them would be a major undertaking and would mean that you ended up with Death powers. Does that mean that Humakt and Orlanth would lose their power of Death? No, because you would be taking a copy, or manifesting the power of Death in your own sword. Perhaps you acted as Orlanth's Sword Bearer and used Death at some point.

At the non-Mythic level, you go in a HeroQuest, find a magical sword and bring it back. Now, you might find it in the hands of a powerful opponent, or you might find it after having forged the power of death into a sword, or perhaps you find it as part of a lost treasure hoard.

How did the sword get there in the end? That is not a problem for Adventurers or Players. Games Masters might struggle with it, but essentially someone must have embodied the power in the item at some point.

On 12/31/2021 at 12:35 AM, Erol of Backford said:

I didn't play Hero Quest so I am not sure how it works, possibly I'll need to get the system and read up...

HeroQuest, the game system, has almost nothing to do with HeroQuesting.

You can HeroQuest using RuneQuest, or 13th Age Glorantha as easily as you can using HeroQuest/QuestWorlds.

 

[soltakss]

On 12/31/2021 at 3:37 AM, Richard S. said:

Kind of expanding on my heroquesting answer, as I understand it most heroquests are like putting on a play, but when you're done parts of the story you were telling remain as real things.

They can be like playing parts in a play. That is what happens in the retelling of Myths, or the sacred time re-enactments or myths to reforge the world.

On 12/31/2021 at 3:37 AM, Richard S. said:

Like say I heroquest King Arthur getting Excalibur - I wouldn't actually go back in time to some mythical England and pull Excalibur out of the lake, I'd go to a nearby lake that represents the one from the story and get a normal sword out of it. When the quest is over, the sword I got has been changed into something like Excalibur, I haven't gotten Excalibur itself.

in my Glorantha, you overlay the myth of King Arthur and Excalibur onto the world and redo it. In one way, you get Excalibur, just that it isn't the same as the original Excalibur.

On 12/31/2021 at 3:37 AM, Richard S. said:

Of course, that's really just a this-world quest, where all the magic is just overlayed on top of the mortal world. If I was feeling particularly brave or foolish I could do an otherworld quest, and actually enter the story as it endlessly recurs on the other side, but I'd still probably just get an enchanted version of a sword I brought with me, since the otherworld version isn't the original either, it's just an echo, a looping record ever degrading and warping. You have to go very deep to find a version of the story that's close enough to the original that it can retain substance when brought into our world, and that risks you losing yourself, your soul, your mind, or all of the above.

You could go to the Otherworld and find the actual thing that you were searching for. So, if Eurmal dropped a Black Gem that was on Death when he found it, you could actually find that Black Gem. Alternatively, you could find a black gem that your HeroQuest imbues with the powers of the Black Gem. Either way works, but the Black gem would be more powerful than a black gem.

 

[Erol of Backford]

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/

Volume of Trade in Dragon Pass - Silk is something found among the elites in the Heartland, in Lunar Tarsh, in Boldhome, and is quite common in Nochet, Rhigos, and Karse. Assuming the Lunar Empire has roughly the same level of elite access to silk as the later Roman Empire, it needs about 5 or 6 tons of silk per year. Going with the comparison, Kralorela exports about 10 tons a year or so through ships going to the Holy Country. Half of that stays in the Holy Country, the other half (5 tons) gets taken to Karse and loaded onto caravans going north. 1 ton or so gets taken en route by the Sartarite elites (mostly at Boldhome, but also at Wilmskirk and Jonstown) – that’s enough silk for 800 silk tunics or 1600 silk dresses. Ultimately around 4 tons of silk end up at Furthest.

So it would seem rain or shine, war or peace there would be caravans several times a week in and out of Karse and the other ports, there is endless information on line, thanks all of you for the links, I really do need a few months to read through it!

I also stumbled across the Notes from Nochet by MOB and DH which has my head spinning with all the potential plot links, they bring back memories of the Name of the Wind series. The Knowledge Temple in Nochet could easily hold all sorts of interesting information...

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/wp-content/uploads/mrmob/nochetintro.htm

[Erol of Backford]

So the PC's are travelling north from Backford to Smithstone, Whitewall, Sundome, Clearwine and on to Apple Lane, of course. Not all stops are listed nor are durations decided as of yet. The caravan ends up stopping in a smaller hamlet for a night or two as they are ahead of a larger caravan they will be traveling with north before reaching Whitewall.

I am looking to insert the Helge Reuter All Quiet on the Eastern Front scenario from Tradetalk 01 somewhere in an eastern Kitori area and am wondering if anyone might suggest a location maybe southeast of Whitewall? Of course the scenario has been converted from Lunar to Troll flavor.

I was thinking since the Kitori were defeated somewhere around 1560 and that the campaign start is in 1600 the timing is about right to explore the forgotten troll tomb? The PC's meet the "elderly uncle" or whomever in the story in this hamlet and the PC's head off to the tomb... Are any of these smaller hamlets on the map clip named anywhere?

Somehow my thoughts come of more real to me if others agree to the train of thought. Any suggestions are appreciated here!

 

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Are any of these smaller hamlets on the map clip named anywhere?

Yes, I have named them in the Heortland draft, though that is always subject to change.

If they are traveling merchants, then they will likely stay to the roadways and the logical stopping point between Smithstone and Whitewall is Karstenstead (labeled on the map shown).  If you want to go hunting troll tombs, then follow the road towards Ramsleap (which is on the southbank of the Marzeel, so the road doesn't truly "go" there), the villages of Whiteflower and Stonegate, and then Darsrest, which is the Bacofi tribal center (never trust the Bacofi!). 

The next village beyond, at the junction of the Marzeel and the Zatern stream, is Dekko, which was once the so-called tribal center of the Kitori, but destroyed by Tarkalor's forces and now a haunted village (shadows, ghosts, shades, etc.) - which all help to keep wayward adventurers out of Kitori lands.  (Dekko is not to be confused with Dekko Crevice, the dot to the east of Dekko, which is a hidden place that goes into the Earth, and perhaps the Underworld.  Dekko Crevice is a dangerous site - Zorak Zoran is said to dwell there, or sometimes Ty Kora Tek.)

Southeast of Dars Rest are the Blue Fox Hills.  Coldfire Rock is an ancient barrow, and there are other barrows around.  A troll tomb could be readily hidden among those.  

Coldfire Rock: "Fires burnt upon this rock consume their fuel without heat or bright light. Since before the Dawn, the local tribes and clans offered sacrifices here to placate spirits and things of Darkness. The tribes stopped making the sacrifices after Belintar became God-King, except during the brief period of Kitori rule. There are many burial mounds here of Second Age kings and heroes including that of Senharlmarth, a Larnsting who fought in the Iron Wars and was famed for his cleverness and his sorcerer-killing sword called Essencepiercer."

 

[Erol of Backford]

All this info is great Jaja. Its like I am back in grade school looking at the "Caves of Chaos", lots of undead in there of course... I think I have the locations correct for Dekko? Is there more info on Senharlmarth the Clever someone could reference?

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

All this info is great Jaja. Its like I am back in grade school looking at the "Caves of Chaos", lots of undead in there of course... I think I have the locations correct for Dekko? Is there more info on Senharlmarth the Clever someone could reference?

He is one of the heroes of the Machine Wars, with a half column subchapter in History of the Heortling Peoples p.54 the main source. He tricked the Zistorites into making him the magical sword by pretending madness.

[jajagappa]

15 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Is there more info on Senharlmarth the Clever someone could reference?

As Joerg noted, the History of the Heortland People is the main/only reference at this point to Senharlmarth.  

The main points for him are:

• Was a Larnsting - so wielded some special magic based on the Movement Rune 
• Fought in the Machine/Iron Wars 
• Was captured by the Zistorites and tricked them into forging Essencepiercer
• Helped sacked the Machine City, and then tricked the dwarfs by melting down treasures into gold and silver to escape their curses (of course this means that you're not going to find treasures from the Machine City other than potential hoards of gold or silver)
• was supposedly buried near Coldfire Rock

Likely there are some lingering epics (or at least triads) related to his deeds in the Machine Wars popular among some of the Hendriki.  Probably were not encouraged by Belintar and his Governors, so hard to know what is remembered of these tales, or if such tales even contain any Truth.

[Erol of Backford]

I found some references to some scenarios when looking at the nice scenario location maps Mr. Jarosch generated. I am not familiar with and am curious if anyone knows where they might be available on line in PDF format?

The Whispering Ruins - which was published in the Dragonmeet 2019 brochure is no longer available via the link Mr. Scott posted from the May 23, 2020.

Also when looking for the Sandy Petersen RQ3 scenario set in Sarro in Afadjann, in the AH house magazine Heroes, I found a few listed in an old index. The old hard/paper copies are available but was hoping to get PDF's if possible if anyone knows a source?

The Big Hit, by Sandy Petersen                      VI.6    pg 12-18, 31-36

Journey to Falderbash, by Bill Williamson           VII.1   pg 12-19

The Wolfrunners, by Sandy Petersen                  VI.4    pg 21-27  (The cover of this issue of Heroes caught my eye...)

Is The Clanking City worth collecting, I mean does it have enough solid Gloranthan material in it or will it be eventually rewritten to look very differently? If planned is a few years out yet?

The cover of Heroes VI.4 is quite recognizable to me!

Joerg, and Jaja, thanks for the references, I picked up the History of the Heortling Peoples today.

[Joerg]

25 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

I found some references to some scenarios when looking at the nice scenario location maps Mr. Jarosch generated. I am not familiar with and am curious if anyone knows where they might be available on line in PDF format?

The Whispering Ruins - which was published in the Dragonmeet 2019 brochure is no longer available via the link Mr. Scott posted from the May 23, 2020.

Now on itch.io:
https://chaosium.itch.io/the-whispering-ruins

 

25 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Joerg, and Jaja, thanks for the references, I picked up the History of the Heortling Peoples today.

Given your area of play, you will find quite a few glimpses of backgound that you may want. And you may fail to regognize more until being pushed in their direction...

[Erol of Backford]

Where do the Bush Children come from, Tarsh in general, made from all sorts of exiles or a specific geographic location? Also have they been around since the Tarsh king was killed in 1555, originally formed then or at a later date as the Lunars solidified their hold on Tarsh? Do they mostly congregate on the east or west side of the Bush Range, assuming that is why they are called Bush Children or is there something else? Are they similar to say Robin Hood's band (I assume they are at least several 100 in number?) and is there anything further on them

Info from Mr. Helsdon's post:

The Bush Ranges are rugged hill-land on both sides of the north Dragonspine. The irregular steep hills and overgrown valleys make poor farming and grazing. It is well suited to the bandit clans who live there. The Bush Children are the settlers of the Bush Ranges in the foothills of Kero Fin. They are herders, hunters, and bandits, who excel at scouting and hit-and-run skirmishes. These bandit clans usually have no loyalty to each other or any outsider lord.

These units trace their origins to the days after the Battle of Grizzly Peak, when many Tarshites fled the Lunar ravaging of the clans in the hills of the Bush Ranges. Many sought sanctuary in Sartar where they served as mercenaries, fighting the Lunar advance.

This group are adept at fighting in craggy terrain, scaling sheer cliffs, and setting ambushes.

From In Winertop's Shadow:

Edited January 10, 2022 by Erol of Backford