Backford Aeolian Campaign

[jajagappa]

10 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I was very surprised to see that Bullpen wasn’t listed in the GtG.

Assuming you are looking at the HW-era Dragon Pass map that shows a village of that name near the Footprint, it's not a canonical source so you shouldn't be surprised that it is not in the Guide.

There is a more significant settlement up the Bullflood River called Bullflood at the foothills of the Storm Mountains (and on the path to Stormwalk).  Expect a Storm Bull temple there and a regular band of Storm Bull warriors.

However, there will be villages towards the Stone Woods/Footprint - these are simply normal clan villages.  I would not expect any "garrison".  There would be typical thanes and the clan militia.  Likely such a village has a shrine to the Storm Bull, so you might have small Storm Bull bands occasionally stopping to worship.

10 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

What type of fortifications would they have? Has there ever been a sketch plan of Bullpen done?

Wooden palisades behind ditches - remember that most of Heortland used to be wooded, though much has been cut down as farming and pasture land expanded under Belintar.  If there are any quarries or rocky outcrops, then stone might be added in sections, likely around a gate.

But remember that settlements on or near the Syphon are at the end of the Stone Wood, so are reasonably sheltered from the immediate Chaos of the Footprint.  It's the settlements above the Footprint, e.g. in the Blue Fox Hills or the Hills of Jab, that are in the more immediate danger from Chaos eruptions.

11 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

(I saw the Heortland/Hendrikiland Publication is done and is with the editors?

It is submitted and into the queue.  There are a lot of stages beyond that to get towards any publication. 

 

[Joerg]

11 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Wooden palisades behind ditches - remember that most of Heortland used to be wooded, though much has been cut down as farming and pasture land expanded under Belintar.  If there are any quarries or rocky outcrops, then stone might be added in sections, likely around a gate.

But remember that settlements on or near the Syphon are at the end of the Stone Wood,

Wooden palisades using Stone Wood timber, maybe?

Taking the axe to the Stone Wood would be unwise, but I am certain that if the Stone Wood still is alive, then there will be trees falling from natural or chaotic causes, and those could be harvested and used in defensive architecture.

[jajagappa]

1 minute ago, Joerg said:

Wooden palisades using Stone Wood timber, maybe?

Taking the axe to the Stone Wood would be unwise, but I am certain that if the Stone Wood still is alive, then there will be trees falling from natural or chaotic causes, and those could be harvested and used in defensive architecture.

Possible.  And yes the Stone Wood is still alive and does protect against Chaos.

[Jeff]

I've posted this before, but this is the Heortland master map. If something is not on this, then it is probably not canonical. If it is on this, it definitely is canonical.

 

[kr0p0s]

4 hours ago, Jeff said:

I've posted this before, but this is the Heortland master map. If something is not on this, then it is probably not canonical. If it is on this, it definitely is canonical.

So where is Derensev?

[Jeff]

7 minutes ago, kr0p0s said:

So where is Derensev?

Derensev is outside of Whitewall. It is not a town, but just a temple. 

Derensev: This major temple of Lhankor Mhy is associated with Whitewall and located in the tribal lands of the Kultain, who are sworn to defend it. The sages are famed for their oratorical prowess. Most of the initiates come from beyond the Kultain lands.

It is clearly visible on the final version of the Dragon Pass master map.

[Erol of Backford]

I'd like for Bullpen be canonical!?

HotHP p.87 - Once king, Rikard then removed a threat on his flank - a rebellion by the Uroxi Jarls of Bullpen and the Styrman Hills, who support Broyan, not Rikard. Rikard and his Seshnegi heavy cavalry chase off many of the Uroxi Jarls, which later allows the scorpionmen of the Queendom of Jab to erupt out of the Print.

Bullpen is also in the Gazetter of Kerofinela on the map in a conspicuous location by The Print!? “By Greg Stafford and Friends”  See map clip below.

Maybe after 1625-26 it doesn’t exist any longer do to the scorpionmen invasion?

I guess my Glorantha does very and I am from a large family and love to argue about anything!

No matter I still love it after 40 years and do very much appreciate the Gloranthan Runequest Renaissance very much Mr. Richard! Without this Forum I'd be much less interested.

Thank you and the others again for what you are doing.

[Erol of Backford]

Is this master map of Dragon Pass available!? I think I have purchased almost everything I can find related to Glorantha but I have not seen this. The only post on The Well of Daliath about a master map is from 2013?

Thank you.

 

[Erol of Backford]

Maybe they had/have chariot races at Derensev to entertain the sages? It looks like the Circus Maximus, well sort of. (meant to be funny.) Imagine the sages all betting on the races. There could be an incredible amount of fun there?

On a serious note, where in Heortland would there be amphitheaters for games? Any city over 2,500, 5,000? I am sure most would have something but as to the size compared to population and the amount of trade passing through would influence the size? Again I am more interested in the Heortland, Jansholm, Backford, Durengard and Mt. Passant?

I used Monster Coliseum a lot back in the 80's, Honest John and the Dark Troll Warband appeared a good bit back then. Much fun!

[Oracle]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Is this master map of Dragon Pass available!? I think I have purchased almost everything I can find related to Glorantha but I have not seen this. The only post on The Well of Daliath about a master map is from 2013?

Thank you.

 

I think, this part of the Dragon Pass master map displaying Whitewall and Derensev, i.e. Southern Sartar, may be part of the upcoming Sartar book/box. (But I could well be wrong here.)

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

HotHP p.87 - Once king, Rikard then removed a threat on his flank - a rebellion by the Uroxi Jarls of Bullpen and the Styrman Hills, who support Broyan, not Rikard.

That likely should reference the town of Bullflood, not Bullpen.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Is this master map of Dragon Pass available!?

Not yet - some parts (northern Sartar) are in the Starter Set.  The rest is likely due in the Sartar book - probably later this year.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Maybe they had/have chariot races at Derensev to entertain the sages?

Maybe more of an amphitheatre from which the sages can demonstrate their oratorical and rhetorical prowess.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

where in Heortland would there be amphitheaters for games?

I don't expect any will have that - most likely such events would be held in the open outside of cities as part of large festivals to Orlanth and Ernalda.

Certain temple areas (Durengard) may have amphitheatres or areas for some public or religious events.

 

[Erol of Backford]

4 hours ago, jajagappa said:

7 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

HotHP p.87 - Once king, Rikard then removed a threat on his flank - a rebellion by the Uroxi Jarls of Bullpen and the Styrman Hills, who support Broyan, not Rikard.

That likely should reference the town of Bullflood, not Bullpen.

IMG, I like Bullpen, its location on the Syphon (not referencing Bullflood see below) as its close to the Styrman Hills, Bullflood is further away. Someone also seems to have changed the Styrman Hills (in the 2002~3 Gazetteer map) to the Blue Fox Hills?

I know there is more on Bullpen, I hope someone will post? As you all know little bits of Glorantha info are hidden amongst 1000's of pages in 100's of articles, magazines and books... How can Bullpen not be canonical with Greg's name on the Gazetteer? You can't blame me for hoping... who knows maybe Bullpen will appear in the Sartar Book!?

 

[jajagappa]

12 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Someone also seems to have changed the Styrman Hills (in the 2002~3 Gazetteer map) to the Blue Fox Hills?

If you look closer at Jeff's map, you'll find the Bullman HIlls to the west of the Blue Fox Hills.

12 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

How can Bullpen not be canonical with Greg's name on the Gazetteer?

Because many others contributed/added their thoughts and ideas to that map/book.  Jeff has recently been able to get back to many of Greg's original maps and notes (which were not available during the HW/HQ period) and this is informing the maps and homeland content in development.

 

[Stephen L]

On 2/5/2022 at 4:25 AM, Erol of Backford said:

How can Bullpen not be canonical with Greg's name on the Gazetteer?

I’m not sure whether you’re using “Canon” in the same way of as the good folk of Chaosium are (or at least seem to me to be) using it.

Canon does not mean right or wrong, or this is “officially” what the great Greg said.  Rather, Chaosium, I think, just mean that it is a consistency for all Chaosium publications to follow, so that Chaosium publications are, and will continue to be, consistent with each other.  Which is a great thing for Chaosium and its writers to aspire to.  It's a pain when something is published, and you build on it, and then Chaosium change their mind, and suddenly you've a lot of work using later published stuff which needs changing to use in your Glorantha.  (Though if those publications don't happen, then there's no problem).

But beyond that canon has no meaning.  So for you and me (unless you’re planning to publish official Chaosium material) what is canon is meaningless.  Obviously your Glorantha will vary from canon.  It has to, otherwise it becomes a strait jacket, and you and your players have no agency and cannot decide anything significant in the Glorantha setting or their actions cannot change the future timeline of Glorantha.  We all just become puppets playing out a script written by Chaosium.

If there’s a settlement Bullpen in your Glorantha, then let it be so.  If it’s a village, then canon isn’t going to name every village in Glorantha, so it’s unlikely to conflict with future canonical publications.  If it’s metropolis, then you might have to tweak published stuff when you want to use it (whenever it might be published), so things make sense in your Glorantha.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Stephen L
That grammar thing

[Jeff]

On 2/4/2022 at 12:46 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Maybe they had/have chariot races at Derensev to entertain the sages? It looks like the Circus Maximus, well sort of. (meant to be funny.) Imagine the sages all betting on the races. There could be an incredible amount of fun there?

On a serious note, where in Heortland would there be amphitheaters for games? Any city over 2,500, 5,000? I am sure most would have something but as to the size compared to population and the amount of trade passing through would influence the size? Again I am more interested in the Heortland, Jansholm, Backford, Durengard and Mt. Passant?

I used Monster Coliseum a lot back in the 80's, Honest John and the Dark Troll Warband appeared a good bit back then. Much fun!

It is an amphitheatre not a racing track. Derensev is noted as a school of oratory.

[Joerg]

On 2/4/2022 at 8:46 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Maybe they had/have chariot races at Derensev to entertain the sages? It looks like the Circus Maximus, well sort of. (meant to be funny.) Imagine the sages all betting on the races. There could be an incredible amount of fun there?

Weirdly enough, the semi-circular shape with the great acoustics is a Greek theater, while the full circle or ovoid shape is an amphitheater.

Any such competition in a knowledge temple sounds more like a game of Jeopardy or non-trivial pursuit, with the rewards being funds for new scrolls copied or bought.

 

On 2/4/2022 at 8:46 PM, Erol of Backford said:

On a serious note, where in Heortland would there be amphitheaters for games? Any city over 2,500, 5,000? I am sure most would have something but as to the size compared to population and the amount of trade passing through would influence the size? Again I am more interested in the Heortland, Jansholm, Backford, Durengard and Mt. Passant?

While I remember MOB suggesting a hippodrome for Nochet since it is one of the Gloranthan metropolises like Byzantium (alongside Sog City and possibly more), I don't think that the Storm Sixth would have many stadions for competitive sports. While there are athletic competitions, those would be at city assembly sites or at certain temple complexes, at least IMG.

 

Casino Town should have race tracks for horses (and other riding animals) or chariots, and for athletics. Also fighting pits for pancration, wrestling, or bear and other monster fighting, or cock-fighting, or Rubble Runner fights. (Or plushies, as in the Radioactive video by Imagine Dragons...)

 

Minoan-style Bull jumping sounds like something done in Fronela or Carmania. Spanish style Bull-Fighting might be Carmanian, too, and possibly Jonatelan (a land surrounded by potentially hostile bull-Orlanthi that doesn't worship bulls but bears).

 

On 2/4/2022 at 8:46 PM, Erol of Backford said:

I used Monster Coliseum a lot back in the 80's, Honest John and the Dark Troll Warband appeared a good bit back then. Much fun!

I always thought that RQ3 Monster Colliseum was the failed first Lunar supplement. A 56 page booklet on dart competitions and some urban Lunar background could have made that generic supplement a nice Gloranthan one.

[jajagappa]

15 hours ago, Joerg said:

I always thought that RQ3 Monster Colliseum was the failed first Lunar supplement. A 56 page booklet on dart competitions and some urban Lunar background could have made that generic supplement a nice Gloranthan one.

Given that a Monster Coliseum conveniently appears in the Rough Guide to Glamour... 

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Given that a Monster Coliseum conveniently appears in the Rough Guide to Glamour... 

This could still have had a variation on the Land of Ninja campaign in some Lunar place like two households both alike in dignity.

[Erol of Backford]

I think with all the recent comments Jaja, Joerg, Stephan and Jeff, I am in a better place about canon.

1. I'll go with something like jousting on a dirt track like "Knight's Tale" or a "Renaissance Fair" with wood rails, more temporary facilities than anything permanent for cities in Heortland rather than chariot races in a hippodrome. It will be of course a bit more primitive than a "knight's in shinning armor" sort of deal. I was totally kidding "meant to be funny" inserted about Derensev being a race track! Maybe Derensev is where the PC's will go to figure out what to do/where to take the Eye of the Halfbird? If not then maybe Jelenkev...

2. Bullpen will be just one of the unnamed small villages along the Syphon with a wooden palisade, with possibly some stone foundations or walls on a few structures, it will be next to the Syphon, they'd want to be able to use the Fish Road assuming there would be access there? Maybe in fact the Fish Road is able to assist some of the occupants along the Syphon to escape the horrors of the scorpionman invasion in 1625~26?

3. Any ventures into the Stone Woods would be more for research than souvenir hunting. Similar to ventures of Jaxarte when he watches the trolls eat butter scorpionman meat.

4. When thinking on the proximity to Jab Hills and that scorpionmen are able to climb near vertical walls or even move across ceilings how does one keep the out? Wuld you place a strengthened trellis over your village or even a strong netting? Can they swim and if not are they able to hold their breath for a long time and basically walk on the bottom across any moat?

[JRE]

If I really wanted to use Bullpen, I would consider it to be just the fortified camp built by Uroxi as they gather for a Larnste footprint foray. The name says it all.

Location will be variable depending on who are the first ones to arrive and set up an Urox shrine, as the others just accrete around it. No fixed location, it only lasts a season, and does not rise every year, as it depends on the availability of Uroxi. You cannot reuse the shrines as the Scorpion men end up always destroying and fouling them.

If your pet project is not in the canon, work around it, make it attractive, and it may be canon some day. 

[M Helsdon]

5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

4. When thinking on the proximity to Jab Hills and that scorpionmen are able to climb near vertical walls or even move across ceilings how does one keep the out? Wuld you place a strengthened trellis over your village or even a strong netting? Can they swim and if not are they able to hold their breath for a long time and basically walk on the bottom across any moat?

It is likely that the defences will be similar to the Steadfasts built by the tribes living near the Telmori, detailed in Ian Cooper's The Coming Storm?

These are fortified villages with a circular wooden palisade with ramparts 3.6 meters high. A pair of strong doors bar access. The houses of the local farmers, byres and stables are crowded within the walls. 

There's a limit to how extensive the fortifications that villagers can afford to build and maintain can be. You might add sharp pointed stakes around the palisade, and some leaning outwards to make it more difficult to climb the wall. 

[Erol of Backford]

10 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

You might add sharp pointed stakes around the palisade, and some leaning outwards to make it more difficult to climb the wall. 

I missed that, obviously the outward or downward pointed stakes like some modern security fencing would obstruct the assaulters. Thanks!

Anyone on thoughts of the typical scorpionmen swimming?

What would be defensive tactics brought into training of militias close to Jab Hills? Long pikes and or spears to keep one out of the range of the tail?

I'll check out "The Coming Storm" if I am able to find it. Thanks!

Edited February 8, 2022 by Erol of Backford

[Erol of Backford]

Issues or comments: A PC wants to be a Bearwalker/Werebear in a campaign in Heortland?

Where do they come from? Could they be from Yellow Bear Hills? How did they get to Backford, were they in a circus and escaped, were they being brought to Gagix as food or an experiment and rescued by some Stormbulls? Were they imported by one of the scholarly establishments outside Mt. Passant, brought there as a cub and raised by wizards? Anything is possible but what are some ideas to make it unique but not too outlandish for Glorantha?

I saw an young adolescent black bear running down the side of the highway outside of Bedminster, NJ several years back... was it chased out of home by its mother? How far had it run, why was it so scared?

So if your were a Bearwalker/Werebear would you be hunted in Heortland or Dragon Pass?

Would it not be strange to walk around nude when not in bear form in the Heortland?

Anyone have a Bearwalkers as a PC? How did it go and how would it have changed if it would have been in Heortland?

What are Lycanthropes harmed by?

Thanks in advance for any comments!

From RQ2:

Edited February 18, 2022 by Erol of Backford

[Joerg]

Bearwaker: could be a chaotically blessed Rathori who arrived on a Wolf Pirate ship (massively present in the region since 1605, but may have scouted and possibly experienced a mishap earlier).

[Ladygolem]

Why not just go with an Odayla initiate? Same cool bear-shifting powers (which I assume is the point), no headaches trying to figure out how to fit them into the setting.