Spirit Magic Effects/Visibility 🔥⚡💦💤

[icebrand]

How do you play spirit/battle magic?

Borderlands seems to assume spells are invisible (as seen for example in tusken rider tactics).

Are protection / countermagic / shimmer "invisible"? (Well, at least until they work)

Or do you play them as having effects? (Like bark/stone/bronze/iron skin for protection 1-4, or glowing blades for bladesharp).

I always played battle magic as invisible, and saved the SFX for rune magic, just wondering since classic and rqg seem silent about it and rq3 says "do what you want"

For example, the enemy can see you casting "a spell" but won't have any clue about what it is (except obvious cases like Fireblade or shimmer)

[RandomNumber]

Our battle magic was typically visible in some form albeit not always greatly so.  It was incidental "colour" rather than being a plot device. The same spell might manifest differently for different casters depending on a range of factors - the focus, whether the spell was learned from this cult or that etc.

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, icebrand said:

How do you play spirit/battle magic?

per the magic section in the core rules: "The sensory effects of a spell (what it looks, sounds, smells, and even feels like) depend on the type of magic used and the power of the spell."

The red book of magic adds: "Spells almost always have some sort of sensory effect."

1 hour ago, icebrand said:

Borderlands seems to assume spells are invisible (as seen for example in tusken rider tactics).

Are protection / countermagic / shimmer "invisible"? (Well, at least until they work)

You can see the caster, casting. As RBM says "It also synthesized different spells with near-identical effects into a common spell with a descriptive name. Under this rubric, the label Bladesharp comprised a thousand different spirit techniques for enhancing the deadliness of a bladed weapon"

1 hour ago, icebrand said:

Or do you play them as having effects?

So depending on who is casting there are different effects. I encourage players to decribe their versions.

1 hour ago, icebrand said:

Like bark/stone/bronze/iron skin for protection 1-4,

Elves casting protection would be bark-like, Ernalda cultists, earth or coppery

1 hour ago, icebrand said:

or glowing blades for bladesharp).

Water cultist with a trail of shimmering droplets, Orlanth cultists with the whoshing of the wind. A humakti in my group has stop motion death runes flickering behind his bladesharp matching up with the shape of the weapon.

1 hour ago, icebrand said:

I always played battle magic as invisible, and saved the SFX for rune magic, just wondering since classic and rqg seem silent about it and rq3 says "do what you want"

Rune magic has even more obvious effects.

1 hour ago, icebrand said:

For example, the enemy can see you casting "a spell" but won't have any clue about what it is (except obvious cases like Fireblade or shimmer)

There are few unknown spirit magic effects. Most common ones will be known by all. I can't think of any that that would be obscured. 

[Lordabdul]

4 hours ago, icebrand said:

How do you play spirit/battle magic?

What David said above. I'll reiterate the recommendation to check out the Red Book of Magic which goes into details on that very topic.

For my games:

• Seeing someone casting a spell may or may not require a perception roll.
  • Rune Magic is flashy and I just describe what it might look like, such as a character temporarily gaining green flowy hair, or blueish skin, or whatever. I may or may not be obvious about it -- they would recognize someone invoking a common feat of a deity they know ("that guy's invoking Orlanth!"), but they might not recognize the invocation of some other pantheon's deity ("that guy's looking all red and maybe you saw a third eye on his forehead for a second? you're not sure")
  • Spirit Magic is less flashy, and sometimes quite discreet, such as quickly focusing on a marking inside your shield to cast some battle magic. I describe something only for spells that have a fair amount of boosting, because the NPC might spend a few seconds concentrating on "something". Most likely I just describe the effects themselves, as opposed to the casting.
• The effects of the spell are varied and I try to be creative. Players are encouraged to be creative too.
  • Weapon buffs might look different between different types of spirit magic (i.e. spirit magic from different deities) but generally it's just various colours for the same FX (there's not too many ways to say "Bladesharp!" except for "this guy's sword is glowing with shimmering <insert colour here> aura"). But other times it can be very different, such as how a Shield or Protection or whatever might look like -- you can go with glowing auras, floating geometric patterns, translucent armor overlaid on top of the body, Dune-like blurry blocks, anything you like that sounds and looks cool. It can even vary inside the same cult for spirit magic since you might have gotten the spell from different spirits. The players probably described their spells only the first few times, but describing new effects for NPCs help me keep a bit of mystery in the setting, and the players guessing. Although they don't have to guess much because I don't have unlimited imagination, and it's pretty obvious what's going on.
  • Other things might be more meaningfully different. Get healed with Babeester Gor's Heal Rune Spell and you'll be left with a gnarly black scar. Get healed with the same spell from a Chalana Arroy or Ernalda healer and your skin is all smooth and clean.

Edited April 23, 2021 by lordabdul

[PhilHibbs]

To me, spirit magic usually has some perceptible effect. Most of the time, Gloranthans are quite happy with this and wish it was even more obvious. Having lots of magic is an expression of how close you are to those things that you hold to be sacred. Does it make you a target? Sure, but if you go out in a blaze of glory magicked up to the eyeballs then you're assured a place at the high table in the afterlife. Ride the wave.

Can it be concealed? Yes, you will know the effects that your spells give off, and and can learn techniques to minimise the chance of them giving away your position though concealment, timing, and distraction. I'd allow a player a conceal, hide, or move quietly roll to cast a spell without being noticed. Except Fireblade, and a few others of course.

[soltakss]

For me, some spells have a visual effect and some don't.

Bladesharp makes a weapon look sharper, Protection makes armour or skin look better, Glamour makes the recipient look more charismatic and so on.

Spells such as Darkwalk make the recipient blend into darkness, which can be treated as the visual part of the spell.

However, I would not see face of Lanbril having any other visual effect other than the result of the spell, as you don't want to look ordinary but have a halo of light around you because you have a spell cast.

[soltakss]

14 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Yes, you will know the effects that your spells give off, and and can learn techniques to minimise the chance of them giving away your position though concealment, timing, and distraction.

Does that reduce the chance of the Adventurer jumping up and down in glee when their 30% spell goes off successfully?

[icebrand]

24 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Does that reduce the chance of the Adventurer jumping up and down in glee when their 30% spell goes off successfully?

Imagine rolling POWx5 instead of 95% 😂🤣

(This post was made by the classic gang)

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, icebrand said:

Imagine rolling POWx5 instead of 95% 😂🤣

(This post was made by the classic gang)

For a rune priest, that is at most 5% difference...

[icebrand]

4 minutes ago, Joerg said:

For a rune priest, that is at most 5% difference...

And for a runelord it's 20%, and for my players it's a gazillion since they have 9 to 13 pow 

[Joerg]

Just now, icebrand said:

And for a runelord it's 20%, and for my players it's a gazillion since they have 9 to 13 pow 

Playing a character who recently managed to raise his POW by 20%, or one point... With the improved chance at getting a POW gain roll from something else than overcoming an opponent in spirit combat or with an offensive spirit spell, starting with a low POW doesn't automatically mean that you'll remain at that low end. Even if my characer would learn Disrupt, he'd now have a 30% chance to roll POW vs. POW, which would give him another 35% chance at best, 15% at worst to succeed against one of your characters, or in other words a 7.5% chance to gain a POW check. And he has only five tries before running out of MP.

Having to roll for rune magic hurts a lot more, at least if you need to roll for a non-elemental rune or a secondary or worse elemental rune and you play a character that isn't on the sociopathic spectrum. It gets worse when you need to roll for allied rune magic, as the allied cult may have virtues that are opposed to your own cult's preferences. An Orlanth cultist with a high Truth rating has a hard time trying to use the Charisma spell Eurmal gives him as associate magic.

[Shiningbrow]

11 hours ago, Joerg said:

An Orlanth cultist with a high Truth rating has a hard time trying to use the Charisma spell Eurmal gives him as associate magic

Lhankor Mhy or Issaries and Clever Tongue... . 

[svensson]

On 4/23/2021 at 6:29 AM, icebrand said:

How do you play spirit/battle magic?

Borderlands seems to assume spells are invisible (as seen for example in tusken rider tactics).

Are protection / countermagic / shimmer "invisible"? (Well, at least until they work)

Or do you play them as having effects? (Like bark/stone/bronze/iron skin for protection 1-4, or glowing blades for bladesharp).

I always played battle magic as invisible, and saved the SFX for rune magic, just wondering since classic and rqg seem silent about it and rq3 says "do what you want"

For example, the enemy can see you casting "a spell" but won't have any clue about what it is (except obvious cases like Fireblade or shimmer)

IMGU, I've always said that all magic has a visible component unless there is a strong Illusion Rune component or is otherwise mentioned in the spell text [Wind Words for example].

With Spirit Magic, it's low key but directly proportionate to the number of MP spent. When a normal person casts Bladesharp 1 on an axe, you might see the spell fetish glow for a second. When a Shaman pumps 6 MP into a Disrupt spell, you're gonna see a lot more... maybe a brief halo about his head and a sense of air displacement as the spell attacks its target [like an arrow passing by you without the arrow].

And Rune magic ALWAYS generates a light show, unless the aforementioned Illusion Rune is in play.

Edited April 25, 2021 by svensson

[HreshtIronBorne]

In our Glorantha every kind of magic EXCEPT the weird, alien, and vile Sorcery has a visible effect. This is one of the main reasons sorcery is mega spooky for the Orlanthi and others. 

 

Exceptions would be spells which mention being secret. Can't remember off the top of my head. 

[Shiningbrow]

On 4/25/2021 at 1:23 PM, HreshtIronBorne said:

In our Glorantha every kind of magic EXCEPT the weird, alien, and vile Sorcery has a visible effect. This is one of the main reasons sorcery is mega spooky for the Orlanthi and others. 

I find that odd.... Especially given what's required to cast... time, effort, concentration... I thought sorcery to be the most obvious... (well, ok, not as obvious as invoking the gods, although - Lie is very much a subtle spell...)

[PhilHibbs]

On 4/25/2021 at 6:23 AM, HreshtIronBorne said:

In our Glorantha every kind of magic EXCEPT the weird, alien, and vile Sorcery has a visible effect. This is one of the main reasons sorcery is mega spooky for the Orlanthi and others. 

43 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

I find that odd.... Especially given what's required to cast... time, effort, concentration... I thought sorcery to be the most obvious... (well, ok, not as obvious as invoking the gods, although - Lie is very much a subtle spell...)

I'm not sure if this "spooky non-visible sorcery" is still canon. It's a line from Strangers in Prax, I would not be surprised if current thinking is different.

Edited April 27, 2021 by PhilHibbs