Why is harvest determined at Sacred Time in RQ?

[smiorgan]

Wouldn't Earth Season make more sense narratively? I gather that Sacred Time is functionally like Pendragon's Winter Phase, where all the non-adventuring activites are resolved, but still... Am I missing something, either rules-wise or lore-wise?

   

[Bill the barbarian]

6 minutes ago, smiorgan said:

Wouldn't Earth Season make more sense narratively? I gather that Sacred Time is functionally like Pendragon's Winter Phase, where all the non-adventuring activites are resolved, but still... Am I missing something, either rules-wise or lore-wise?

   

Just ran a Sacred Time and that never even occurred to me. Mind you I have not finished Day 14 Godday Luck Week Full Half Moon Prophesy day yet. We ended the game at that point due to real life needs. Still food for thought and I will pass this on to my players for their thoughts...

[Rodney Dangerduck]

We wonder about the "oh, the dice said that you had a baby last year, congratulations!" aspect.  

Its a reasonable abstraction otherwise...

[Joerg]

Perhaps as much the amount of spoilage over Dark and Sea Season when the seedstock for the summer grain seeding is put aside in the face of Sea Season.
I would be interested whether the Heortlings have both summer and winter seeding, or whether they are limited to summer seeds for their crops.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, smiorgan said:

Wouldn't Earth Season make more sense narratively? I gather that Sacred Time is functionally like Pendragon's Winter Phase, where all the non-adventuring activites are resolved, but still... Am I missing something, either rules-wise or lore-wise?

Beside the obvious "time-out" for Sacred Time as a good point for catching up, I'd suggest two reasons:

1) along the lines of what Joerg suggested, this is the point where you assess how much spoilage you've had from rot, loss of grain to vermin, etc.; and have to decide how much remaining grain is going to be set aside to keep you fed through Seaseason while the new crops grow vs. using it as seed for planting.

2) the results of whether you've been able to stretch your supply of dried/preserved meat, root veggies, etc. to cover food through the winter seasons comes home, and you see whether you've had to dip deeper into the harvest, however much that is, to keep you going.

[smiorgan]

Thinking more about it, abstraction has its virtues... different cereals have different seeding and harvest seasons... in different regions...

In Italy you seed wheat in November and harvest it in June. In contrast, you seed corn in Spring and harvest it in September. I've always thought of Dragon Pass to be pretty close to Italy in the climate range (Alpine to Mediterranean).

Interestingly, the calendar has an Earth Season illustration depicting what looks like a wheat harvest. I gather that late summer harvest of wheat is more of a Northern Europe thing.

So, if you don't want to go super descriptive Sacred Time is a handy abstraction for accounting for harvest.

 

[Bill the barbarian]

17 minutes ago, smiorgan said:

In Italy you seed wheat in November and harvest it in June. In contrast, you seed corn in Spring and harvest it in September. I've always thought of Dragon Pass to be pretty close to Italy in the climate range (Alpine to Mediterranean).

 

And I have always thought of it being northern Cali Rockies... Alps... kinda... so I guess that would be Northern Italy. Interesting. 

[Shiningbrow]

Adding to @Joergand @jajagappa, it's also the season to determine how much you can reasonably sacrifice during Sacred Time rites, especially if there's a Heroquest to be performed.

And how much cash etc you're pulling in from tithes.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Shiningbrow

[svensson]

Sacred Time is the traditional period where the gains and losses of the last year are assessed and hopes for the next year are begun. Your clan has gotten through the harvest feasts and winter and now it's time to make sure you'll have enough to eat and plant for next year's harvest while there's still time to do something about it.

Other than that, it's simply a convenient rules mechanic to tie up the year.

[Akhôrahil]

On 4/25/2021 at 8:56 PM, Joerg said:

Perhaps as much the amount of spoilage over Dark and Sea Season when the seedstock for the summer grain seeding is put aside in the face of Sea Season.
I would be interested whether the Heortlings have both summer and winter seeding, or whether they are limited to summer seeds for their crops.

I would like to know this as well. Common sense says both (and it helps spread the plowing and sowing a bit over the year), but Runic associations might suggest a single cycle with harvests only in Earth Season.

[David Scott]

On 4/25/2021 at 7:46 PM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

We wonder about the "oh, the dice said that you had a baby last year, congratulations!" aspect.  

We found that worked really well, and worked it in retrospectively. It does say "if sufficient opportunity was fulfilled during play to allow conception." 

[Joerg]

Even though Gloranthan history has been only about 1625 years, its prehistory is worth millennia of cultures - even the Vingkotling era of middle Storm Age started about the amount of 5000 years ago. That means that grain cultivation (if not as a human achievement, then as gifts from specific goddesses) may well be more ancient in Glorantha than it is on our planet.

On the other hand, having a goddess as the guardian and guarantor of a seed and its growth patterns will lead to a lot more static breeds, and less ongoing cultivation, except for new hero(ine)s and goddesses introducing new types of grain.

Winter, on the other hand, appears to be a comparably recent phenomenon (or maybe just a comparatively recently returned phenomenon). First came the Flood(s), then the Glacier expanded in a major way, forcing the concept of winter onto the world - especially Brithos, Fronela and Peloria. There doesn't appear to have been winter (or other such turn of seasons) during Yelm's stagnant reign, but then we know that the Yelmic Sunstop in the Golden Age was the result of him usurping power from previous, apparently phasing White Goddesses who were all about cycles. While Valind is a fairly young god (third generation Storm), Himile, the god of cold, is one of the oldest deities outside of the Celestial Court.

The entire concept of the turn of seasons is sort of anathema to the static reign of Yelm. Murharzarm's reign at least could have had a cycle of floodings based on the tides of the tamed Oslir River.

 

When the Neolithic farmers migrated from Anatolia and the Fertile Crescent into the lower Danubian lands, the climate was warmer than it is today. Somewhere just east of the Pannonian basin, the expansion of these farmers stopped for a few centuries as the farmers had to come to grips with the stronger shift of seasons in the less warm lands beyond. Overcoming this obstacle was a major achievement, almost a second neolithic revolution, as it allowed the farmers to occupy previously unsuitable climate zones, and it also allowed them to stay in that region when the climate grew colder and real seasons started to haunt the farmers all the way to the edge of the Fertile Crescent.

The Brithini, the later Anaxial emperors of Dara Happa, and the Hill Barbarians all were confronted with the expansion of Valind's Glacier and the turn towards a colder climate. The lands closer to the Glacier would have had to cultivate either faster growing summer cereals (like barley), or they would have had to switch to autumn sowing to give the plants some late year growth and a head start towards ripening in the following seasonal cycle.

But then, such cycles could have been around before the Yelmic Sunstop.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

We found that worked really well, and worked it in retrospectively. It does say "if sufficient opportunity was fulfilled during play to allow conception." 

The result of the roll isn't "you or your partner become pregnant".  The roll is "child born".

Do you really tell your PCs, especially the women, "oh yeah, you had twins last Fire Season and you didn't even know it till now"? 🙂

I think our group will treat it as "become pregnant" and the birth happens sometime the next year.

[Joerg]

42 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

The result of the roll isn't "you or your partner become pregnant".  The roll is "child born".

Do you really tell your PCs, especially the women, "oh yeah, you had twins last Fire Season and you didn't even know it till now"? 🙂

Happens all the time in the real world...

42 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I think our group will treat it as "become pregnant" and the birth happens sometime the next year.

That way, the player character future parents can also go shopping for the maximum affordable blessing for their kid.

[French Desperate WindChild]

12 hours ago, David Scott said:

We found that worked really well, and worked it in retrospectively. It does say "if sufficient opportunity was fulfilled during play to allow conception." 

you are not alone 🙂

 

11 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I think our group will treat it as "become pregnant" and the birth happens sometime the next year.

you are not alone 🙂

 

but...

11 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Do you really tell your PCs, especially the women, "oh yeah, you had twins last Fire Season and you didn't even know it till now"?

"even if you did not seen your wife last year"

ah Orlanth adventurous... so good guys, always here to help you to get your marriage a success !

 

But personaly, I will not roll for birth like that. I prefer to decide:

- because the player has the idea (so it could be yes you have, or roll something or...) --> characters planned to have a child and succeed... or not (maybe a scenario then). why not a roll from the player to determine the result

- because the GM has the idea for a scenario  (I will not bet on a roll to decide if yes or not there is a scenario)

- because the GM as the idea just for fun or color

[soltakss]

10 hours ago, Joerg said:

11 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

The result of the roll isn't "you or your partner become pregnant".  The roll is "child born".

Do you really tell your PCs, especially the women, "oh yeah, you had twins last Fire Season and you didn't even know it till now"? 🙂

Happens all the time in the real world...

Someone I know has a relative who gave birth twice without knowing she was pregnant both times. The second time she guessed what was happening, having gone through it before.

[Stephen L]

On 4/25/2021 at 7:27 PM, smiorgan said:

Am I missing something, either rules-wise or lore-wise?

Lore wise, sacred time makes complete sense for the resolving the yearly cycle, because, mythically that’s exactly what sacred time represents.  Mythically, it is the death of the old world, and the rebirth of the new. 

If you don’t muck up the rituals too badly...

[Stephen L]

 

8 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

19 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I think our group will treat it as "become pregnant" and the birth happens sometime the next year.

you are not alone 🙂

I believe that congratulations are in order.  May your Windchildlets be blessed with many years of roleplaying fun when they come of roleplaying age...

Or am I wilfully misreading posts again!

[PhilHibbs]

Simplicity.

[Bill the barbarian]

I just realized, I have no idea how long human gestation is on the lozenge. Is it ¾ of a year or 40 weeks?

[PhilHibbs]

28 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I just realized, I have no idea how long human gestation is on the lozenge. Is it ¾ of a year or 40 weeks?

I think it's a year.

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

I think it's a year.

Who’s year? I assume you mean the Lozenge not the marble?

Edited April 29, 2021 by Bill the barbarian

[PhilHibbs]

29 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Who’s year? I assume you mean the Lozenge not the marble?

Well, if I said "In Glorantha, a pregnancy lasts for an Earth year" that would make no sense at all. So yes, a Gloranthan year.

[Bill the barbarian]

Pardon my quest for clarity, my head hurts an awful lot these days. No insult was intended.

...and worse I am in edit mode, so probably more pedantic and thorough than I should be. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Bill the barbarian

[svensson]

OK folks...

It's. Just. A. Mechanic.

That's it, that's all. We are all seriously overthinking this.

Ooh! I know! Genertelans are like the Japanese... everyone has the same birthday, Gods /Fate /Sacred Time. Whether a child was born 1st of Sea Season, the 25th of Earth Season, or the 56th of Storm Season, they all turn another year old on the last day of Sacred Time.