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RuneQuest - the standout example of a TTRPG where religion is more than "a bland background noise" (Tor.com article)


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23 minutes ago, Kloster said:

I don't know what is the exact original text, but in your version, there is a capital G to God, meaning 'Our God, the one we worship'. There would be no capital G if the meaning were to be that no divinity existed.

אָמַר נָבָל בְּלִבּוֹ,    אֵין אֱלֹהִים

Which uses the term 'elohim', which is, in fact, grammatically plural.  It has been read for millennia as a name for the deity otherwise known as 'El or YHWH, hence the capitalisation.

 

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53 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

אָמַר נָבָל בְּלִבּוֹ,    אֵין אֱלֹהִים

Which uses the term 'elohim', which is, in fact, grammatically plural.  It has been read for millennia as a name for the deity otherwise known as 'El or YHWH, hence the capitalisation.

 

Thanks. Your mastery of Hebrew is far better than mine.

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On 5/5/2021 at 8:02 AM, PhilHibbs said:

Now that is a fair point. If you initiate into a cult and lapse, you're pretty screwed unless you're illuminated and not everyone wants to go down that path. That big investment of POW in rune points that you can't get back is a huge loss.

But Jon Pol-Joni doesn't see his initiation into Orlanth as a bad thing. It would be akin to rejecting his culture... For what? He can always become a runepriest of Donandar and everyone's happy.

How does he get to the point where he thinks Orlanth is wrong?? WHY?!?

If he's just different there are other cults for him to join, he wouldn't have made it to initiate of Orlanth If he had that worldview.

I see this only as an issue that could arise with very powerful runelord+priests that get into a serious disagreement with their god(why? How??) And decide to desert them... And that's fine they have a bunch of one-use magic now, and they are free to join a divinity they see more fitting...

Heck, if they leave on a good note to an allied god i may even refund them some rune points in RQG (in classic they would be 100% screwed)

"It seems I'm destined not to move ahead in time faster than my usual rate of one second per second"

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On 5/5/2021 at 5:19 AM, Bill the barbarian said:

Well, if you wish to change the meaning of the English word, sure.

The question of "what is a god" is probably worthy of it's own thread, but the most reasonable one I can figure out in terms of Gloranthan monotheism and atheism is "a being who is worthy of worship."

Malkioni get to be monotheists because although they recognise the various supernatural entities that embody natural forces are powerful, they do not think them worthy of worship, and only the Invisible God is worthy of that. Even if they've adopted "god" as a loanword or whatever, to them those beings are just doing their jobs, so why should they be worshipped for it?

The Brithini are atheists because they take this further, and view the Invisible God and say "Yes, it created the universe, but that is its nature, it is an impartial force, and we may respect the Prime Mover, but it is not worthy of worship."

References:

Spoiler

 

Glorantha Sourcebook page 67 talks about the Prime Mover and notes it is also called the Invisible God.

Guide to Glorantha page 408 mentions the Brithini acknowledge the Invisible God as creator, but repeats them being atheist. That page also talks about the Malkioni venerating the Invisible God, who created the Runes. The runes are the lesser gods that the Malkioni acknowledge, but don't worship.

 

 

Edited by Tindalos
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A lot of the questions around atheism in antiquity and in fantasy worlds ultimately come down to particular minutiae of definitions. What's possibly more fruitful would be to look at historical skeptics, like Lucian of Samosata, who is generally believed to have expressed something close to his own opinions when his character Tychiades denounced superstitions and belief in the paranormal but expressed that the gods existed, as proven by the existence of medical science. Lucian, or Tychiades, might be termed an atheist in that the belief expressed is one that is functionally near-identical to contemporary rationalist humanism- the universe solely consists of that which is describable in naturalistic terms. 

Could Lucian exist in Glorantha? He's probably not encouraged by the RQG rules, but Lucian also existed at a time when the long decline of traditional religion had begun in earnest, and the prevailing emergence of mystery cults was well advanced (and Christianity was coming up behind them a bit.) It might be more appropriate to look for Lucians in terms of people who emphasize empirical religion over experimental religion, the sort of people who dissuade you from leaving the beaten path when in the Godtime. Lucian was funny, though, so it would be insulting to just have him be a hidebound Archie Bunker. But a satirist aiming at the follies of the Sartar Magical Union, for example...

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Back in the late '80s I ran a Dykene-based campaign where one player was determined to play an atheist.  We had long, l-o-n-g, discussions as to the basis for his access to any form of magic.  In the end he went for a personal belief in Arachne Solara as a personification of Glorantha and the Cosmos and confined himself to Battle Magic, as Spirit Magic was then called.  I remain unconvinced, but he seemed happy enough, so I let it ride.  

He moved to Canada.  Oh my. 

Bill....?    🤪

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On 5/7/2021 at 10:03 PM, Ali the Helering said:

He moved to Canada.  Oh my. 

Bill....?    🤪

Wasn’t me man, you can’t prove a thing and anyway, I was on the other side of town at the time!

Edited by Bill the barbarian
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... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast!

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