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Runequest and the bar of entry


Adaras

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1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

The upcoming RQG Starter Set should help to cover these aspects with a basic setting, solo adventure, and several introductory scenarios. 

Interestingly, if you go way back to the old RQ2 book, there wasn't really a GM reference either, but tucked away in one of the back appendices were some "Referee Notes".  Wasn't a long section, but did provide new GM's some basic pointers for getting them started.

It also had a section on random encounters, calculations on how to match the encountered strength levels to the party, and treasure. While Jonstown now has a contributed encounter pamphlet I'm still holding out for such tables to appear in either the Campaign or GM references when they come out...

If one goes back to 2nd Ed AD&D -- RQ:RiG corresponds to the Player's Handbook, and we are still waiting for the equivalent to the GM Guide (we have the Monster [Bestiary] and Magic books [though I'm still awaiting notification that the print copy is ready to ship]). Granted the RQ GM book has sort of split, with the separate Campaign book (I'd expect encounter tables and pregen squad stats).

 

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On 5/19/2021 at 7:28 AM, Nick Brooke said:

Sorry to hear it; that's an understandable first reaction. If you pick up just one piece of community content, make it Six Seasons in Sartar, by Andrew Logan Montgomery. The tricks he teaches you about statting-up NPCs (and, indeed, why you don't usually need to bother) will be a life-saver. ............ The belief that every NPC has to be "simulated" in as much detail as if they were a player character is a horribly common fallacy...)

And I'm still learning to use those tricks, thank you Nick Brooke and Andrew L. Montgomery!   Working in that direction,  I drafted up this NPC worksheet, which may be handy -  feel free to use or improve it.  (attached PDF)

short NPC sheet PDF2.pdf

Edited by Squaredeal Sten
spelling, my nemesis.
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7 hours ago, Adaras said:

The game feels exceptionally hard to get into, I dont feel you can pick up the corebook and start playing it right away. While there are a lovely host of premade characters, there are no pre made basic npcs (Like Bandits, Lunar soldiers Etc) At the same time you dont have a game master section in the book that gives information and suggestions on how to run the game. 

I hate to admit it, but this is a perfectly fair complaint.  The time and money a GM needs to invest to really get a working understanding of Glorantha's innards is a bit prohibitive.  On the other hand, you can rest assured that a fix is on the way.  I attended a Con in easier pre-COVID times where I was reliably informed by Chaosium staffers that a "GM's Guide to Glorantha" is on its way.  That being said, it isn't here yet.

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1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

And I'm still learning to use thjose tricks, thank you Nick Brooke and Andrew L. Montgomery!   Working in that direction,  I drafted up this NPC worksheet, which may be handy -  feel free to use or improve it.  (attached PDF)

short NPC sheet PDF2.pdf 28.56 kB · 0 downloads

This is fine, but the Runequest Gamemaster screen pack has short (1/2 page) NPC character sheets and squad sheet (4 characters). I admit that they are easily overlooked, but they exist and are perfectly usable. You can also use the squad sheet at the end of the old RQ2 book.

Now, if one can't wait for the forthcoming Sartar box, and if the encounter chart at the end of the RQ2 book not developed enough for one's taste, I made encounter charts in the Jonstown CompendiumClose-Encounters-of-the-Sartar-Kind

Edited by Manimati
typo + mention of the squad sheet in RQ2.
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Well, first and foremost, Welcome to WallyWorld!

As you can see, we try to be a helpful board and many of us are 'old grognards' of Glorantha lore and RQ number crunchiness. We welcome new RQ players with open arms and you'll find very few trolls here. Other than Uz, of course.

Yes, I agree that the learning curve for RQ and Glorantha looks pretty steep at first glance. Part of it is perception, of course, but part of it is just how much the rules and the setting are intertwined. However, help is on the way! Later this summer, Chaosium will release the RuneQuest Starter Box which will include a solo scenario to help those new to RQ get started. That'll help a BUNCH.

My advice to you is to pick up two products:

-- The RQG Gamemaster's Pack, which includes scenarios, a clan and starting environment, NPCs to interact with and a whole slew of handouts and game aids.

-- Six Seasons in Sartar, as has been mentioned, is really helpful gamer content from drivethru that also provides scenarios and GM advice.

Edited by svensson
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7 hours ago, Darius West said:

I hate to admit it, but this is a perfectly fair complaint.  The time and money a GM needs to invest to really get a working understanding of Glorantha's innards is a bit prohibitive.  On the other hand, you can rest assured that a fix is on the way.  I attended a Con in easier pre-COVID times where I was reliably informed by Chaosium staffers that a "GM's Guide to Glorantha" is on its way.  That being said, it isn't here yet.

Part of the problem here is the weight of the setting. You COULD pick your choice of RuneQuest 1st ed ($10 PDF, $25 POD) or 2nd ed ($15 PDF, $20 hardcover, $25 POD) and Cults of Prax ($13 PDF, $20 POD) and have enough material to run a nice Gloranthan campaign. Toss in the Old School Resource Pack ($13 PDF, $25 print, $20 POD) and you have 2 scenarios and a bunch of ready to go NPCs.

Optionally if you want to get on board cheap, wait for the Starter Set this summer for $30...

Now it may be a more fair complaint that RuneQuest Glorantha is more of a buy in. But is it that much more than other games? D&D 5e is $50 a book and you need 3 books and that doesn't get you any scenarios. Add GM screen for $15, that's $165. For $165 with RQG you get core book ($55) GM Screen ($30), bestiary ($40) and source book ($40). Granted you don't get an in depth GM guide, but you get more than enough to play for the same price and that includes some deep setting info.

But don't go for a deep dive. Pick up a rules set. Pick up a scenario. Play that. Then get more and absorb slowly. That was the only choice we had when I started in 1978... And don't worry if you're playing Glorantha "right".

Seriously, although I'm not interested in RQG I understand it's a great way to get into RQ and Glorantha. I will eventually purchase it because it might have some tidbits for me to absorb into my campaign. In the meantime, I grab bits and pieces of other stuff (Bestiary, Sourcebook, Red Book of Magic, a Johnstown Compendium adventure, and I'll order the Starter Set as soon as it's available, also the cults book). But I'm on my way into the deep end of the pool. You don't have to be to enjoy RQ and Glorantha.

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18 minutes ago, ffilz said:

But don't go for a deep dive. Pick up a rules set. Pick up a scenario. Play that. Then get more and absorb slowly. That was the only choice we had when I started in 1978... 

You got that right ffilz, and when I responded this morning I had a choice of saying what we did not have then vs what we now, and decided to go with the now and boost the community projects on the Jonstown Compendium.

But casting my gaze back to D&D, my poison of choice back in the day, we started out much the same. One could play D&D and have a lot of product or... wait for the gleaming and shiny new AD&D which was coming out in dribs and drabs throughout the late 70s. First at the gate was the MM (go figure, no players book, no DM’s Guide but we had the Monster Manual?) which joined Mssrs. Perrin and Turney’s (?) All the Worlds Monsters released earlier that year. It would be joined by the Players Hand Book in '78 and the DMG in '79 and finally the cult book D&DG in '80s... three years. Chaosium is taking longer in the 21st century but there is a pandemic! And the product is better!

44 minutes ago, ffilz said:

And don't worry if you're playing Glorantha "right".

The second part is more important, do not let anyone tell you you are doing it wrong! 

... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast!

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15 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

There is a wonderful community content book by Jon Hunter that might have what you need called Rubble Runners. The Dregs of Clearwine by the Beer with Teeth crew, and Austin Conrad’s The Heortlings of Sartar rounds this out.

I just picked up Heortlings of Sartar. A quick printing and skim through it tells me I will find this very, very useful. It is fairly generic, so suitable for reuse, but it includes enough color to give the GM something to start with.

Thanks for mentioning it.

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1 hour ago, Bren said:

I just picked up Heortlings of Sartar. A quick printing and skim through it tells me I will find this very, very useful. It is fairly generic, so suitable for reuse, but it includes enough color to give the GM something to start with.

Thanks for mentioning it.

  Author here, happy to hear it looks helpful! FWIW I'm working on a follow-up detailing generic Praxians in the same style, hopefully for sometime later this year. It probably won't be quite so price-friendly because 1) these are a bigger pain to produce than I expected when I started Heortlings, and 2) I didn't anticipate such a strong positive response to "bundle of statblocks." But it'll still be cheap, because I want it to remain accessible.

My long-term goal is to create a similar product for each of the RQG core Homelands.

12 hours ago, Beoferret said:

I assume that most of the spirit magic spells regular people have learned would have little to no impact on a brief encounter w/ PC's.

"Regular people spirit magic" is interesting to think about when I've worked on generic NPCs. I find both Ignite and Extinguish come up a lot, because of the importance of firestarting in pre-industrial settings (especially among Praxians), and the dangers of fire when you cook on open flame in flammable houses. Likewise Vigor + Spell Extension for shamans is a cheap way to help someone recover from disease. For Rune magic, I typically assume almost everyone with access knows Bless Crops, Bless Animals, or similar livelihood spells to help offset a poor harvest.

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Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Disclaimer: affiliate link.

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18 hours ago, Adaras said:

I picked up RuneQuest Last year and really love the setting and the book, been reading through it and enjoying the richness of the setting and the flavour of the game.

Glad you liked how it looked, it is a beautiful book and the setting has captured me for nearly 40 years.

18 hours ago, Adaras said:

The game feels exceptionally hard to get into, I dont feel you can pick up the corebook and start playing it right away. While there are a lovely host of premade characters, there are no pre made basic npcs (Like Bandits, Lunar soldiers Etc) At the same time you dont have a game master section in the book that gives information and suggestions on how to run the game. 

Yes, I can see that as being an issue.

All I can suggest is to look elsewhere for NPC and so on. However, that means buying more than the core book, which can be expensive.

The Jonstown Compendium has lots of examples of NPCs from various places, for example, mostly PDF but with some Print on Demand versions.

I am not particularly keen on Game Master sections, as I have been running RQ for so long now that I don't need one. However, I can see that it would be useful to new Players/GMs. However, what would it contain? Don't bother too much with the rules, often provide alternatives to combat, use the rules flexibly, actions have consequences and monsters are people too.

18 hours ago, Adaras said:

Now I know there is probably a wide breath and wealth of things to pick up from previous editions and a enormous host of player created content. But if I went into a shop and found the book and bought it I wouldnt be able to play with it easily. 

I know people who have never bought anything else that the RQ2 rulebook and have played using that for decades, so the extra stuff is not essential, but I can see it as being a barrier.

18 hours ago, Adaras said:

It makes me rather sad that such a lovely setting presents such a (in my view) massive barrier to newcomers. Even worse for the fact that youd have to buy the bestiary to get any monster and beast stats, and the Game masters guide is far out in the future. 

That is a problem.

The RuneQuest Glorantha Rulebook is 449 pages, the Glorantha Bestiary is 210 pages, combine them and you have 659 pages, add in extra NPCs stats and a Game Master section and you are looking at 700 pages, which is far too big for a printed book.

It could be rearranged to have the basic rules and core monsters in one book and everything else in multiple add-ons, but then people would ask why they have to buy the add-ons. 

I don't think there is an easy answer to that, to be honest.

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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6 hours ago, ffilz said:

Seriously, although I'm not interested in RQG I understand it's a great way to get into RQ and Glorantha.

Actually, RQG is really good.  Unlike previous RQs it is a lot more bronze age in its inspiration, and incorporates enough new mechanics on top of the old RQ2/RQ3 foundations to make it well worth the purchase imo.  It has cults that we know and a couple that are new including Odayla the Sky Bear, Engizi, and Sun Horse Yelm (Yu-Kargzant).  It has new and improved Shamanism rules, which are great.  The sorcery rules are similar to RQ3 but not the same.  Overall, Runes play a much larger part in the game, and they are invoked in similar ways to Passions.  It also includes some economic and downtime rules.  While elements of character creation draw heavily on RQ2, there is a lot more detail there, and it has a family history section that draws on similar elements of Pendragon, but in a Gloranthan setting (sans glory too obviously).  The other important factor is that the game world has now progressed to 1625 and the history of Glorantha has reached the point where the Hero Wars are actually "on", not just prophecied.  Finally, the illustrations are very good, and the maps are excellent; beautiful even.  As an old time RQer, I heartily recommend it to old school skeptics like yourself.  I definitely feel I got my money's worth.  Yes there is redundant info that you might find elsewhere, but this is a loving update with plenty of fresh stuff. 

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22 hours ago, Adaras said:

Now I know there is probably a wide breath and wealth of things to pick up from previous editions and a enormous host of player created content. But if I went into a shop and found the book and bought it I wouldnt be able to play with it easily. 

Hi there,

Lots of good advice in this thread.

Your reaction is very reasonable. It is quite possible to respond that way to the richness of the material available and to feel a little overwhelmed. My encouragement is to give it a go and to not worry whether you are "doing it right" or doing justice to the setting. Chaosium encourages you to "make it your own" - the principles of YGWV and MGF. Glorantha allows you to go deep if you wish but there is no compulsion to do so. I've spent my RPG years skimming the surface of Glorantha and going deeper when I feel the need arises. I don't feel like I need to "align" to the published material but the wealth of it out there makes my task as a GM far easier as there is so much I can pick and choose from.

Practically, I would also recommend the campaign Six Seasons in Sartar as its approach to NPC's is quite ingenious and will cut down your workload considerably. Don't buy it just for that though. I haven't read it fully yet so cannot comment on the campaign itself but it is certainly very well regarded.

If you were to buy one thing, the GM Pack is a worthwhile investment.  Not only is it gorgeous, but also it has many useful stat blocks for NPC's, some locations and encounters too. The scenarios it includes are an excellent introduction to the feel of the setting.

There are lots of other resources for NPC stat blocks should you need them. For example, this post has lots of stats you can use:

Good luck. Enjoy RQG.

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Something I believe will be good about the Starter Set is that often, things look harder before you actually get going. But the Starter Set already has characters, a setting and some adventuring to be done, and once they're through that, you're already rolling and will have a much easier time to just keep going than if you have to set everything up from start. You don't have to read up on everything, only what the PCs are about to do next, you have already established a what kinds of stats enemies tend to have, some of the flavor and player information is already in place, they know some people now (possibly with enemies as well)... 

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6 hours ago, Darius West said:

Actually, RQG is really good.  Unlike previous RQs it is a lot more bronze age in its inspiration, and incorporates enough new mechanics on top of the old RQ2/RQ3 foundations to make it well worth the purchase imo.  It has cults that we know and a couple that are new including Odayla the Sky Bear, Engizi, and Sun Horse Yelm (Yu-Kargzant).  It has new and improved Shamanism rules, which are great.  The sorcery rules are similar to RQ3 but not the same.  Overall, Runes play a much larger part in the game, and they are invoked in similar ways to Passions.  It also includes some economic and downtime rules.  While elements of character creation draw heavily on RQ2, there is a lot more detail there, and it has a family history section that draws on similar elements of Pendragon, but in a Gloranthan setting (sans glory too obviously).  The other important factor is that the game world has now progressed to 1625 and the history of Glorantha has reached the point where the Hero Wars are actually "on", not just prophecied.  Finally, the illustrations are very good, and the maps are excellent; beautiful even.  As an old time RQer, I heartily recommend it to old school skeptics like yourself.  I definitely feel I got my money's worth.  Yes there is redundant info that you might find elsewhere, but this is a loving update with plenty of fresh stuff. 

Honestly, much of what I have heard about RQG turns me off. Part of that is because my Glorantha is NOT the Glorantha of today. It is the Glorantha of RQ1 with Cults of Prax added on. The implied setting of RQ1 is NOT bronze age, it's more medieval, or at least "D&D-like fantasy" (with skills instead of classes and levels...). That's the setting I've played on and off, with at least some play in every decade, since 1978. I don't NEED all that stuff that ties RQ more mechanically to Glorantha because it isn't making ties to MY Glorantha. Sure, my choice NOT to buy RQ2 a year after I bought RQ1 set me on a path of sticking with the original, but it's what I am comfortable with and like. I don't need to absorb hundreds of pages to run my RQ. Picking up RQG for me would actually put me in the deep end just like the OP. Or worse because I'd have to unlearn something...

All that said, that's ME. For others, I'm confident RQG is the right game for them.

And the Starter Set will help people get in. And I'm going to buy it for the cool content. And I will eventually buy RQG to see if there's anything I want to steal.

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48 minutes ago, ffilz said:

Honestly, much of what I have heard about RQG turns me off. Part of that is because my Glorantha is NOT the Glorantha of today. It is the Glorantha of RQ1 with Cults of Prax added on. The implied setting of RQ1 is NOT bronze age, it's more medieval, or at least "D&D-like fantasy" (with skills instead of classes and levels...). That's the setting I've played on and off, with at least some play in every decade, since 1978. I don't NEED all that stuff that ties RQ more mechanically to Glorantha because it isn't making ties to MY Glorantha. Sure, my choice NOT to buy RQ2 a year after I bought RQ1 set me on a path of sticking with the original, but it's what I am comfortable with and like. I don't need to absorb hundreds of pages to run my RQ. Picking up RQG for me would actually put me in the deep end just like the OP. Or worse because I'd have to unlearn something...

All that said, that's ME. For others, I'm confident RQG is the right game for them.

And the Starter Set will help people get in. And I'm going to buy it for the cool content. And I will eventually buy RQG to see if there's anything I want to steal.

In that case you should stick to RQ1 or invest into RQ3 or BRP as it supports that style of play. You would still be interested with various published scenarios published for RQG. 

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14 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

In that case you should stick to RQ1 or invest into RQ3 or BRP as it supports that style of play. You would still be interested with various published scenarios published for RQG. 

Yep, I'm sticking with RQ1... (I do have RQ2 and RQ3...). And yea, I will be interested in the scenarios. I will eventually get RQG for better understanding of the scenarios.

I had two reasons for popping into this thread:

1. To point out that deep setting knowledge is NOT necessary to enjoy RuneQuest.

2. To point out that one COULD get into RQ and Glorantha for cheaper than RQG by picking up some RuneQuest Classics offerings.

And then I noted that gee, RQG actually turns out not to be more expensive than D&D 5e...

There has long been a complaint about the depth of Glorantha. The truth is anyone new coming in is going to be lost by the weight of over 40 years of setting development. But the answer is that actually that HAS been taken into account and we have the Quick Start and an upcoming Starter Set to give people an entry point. And then we can highlight that NO ONE expects you to follow canon unless you decide to write for the official line, which you aren't going to even think about doing before you have lost yourself in immersion in the setting, meanwhile Johnstown Compendium would be a great place for anyone who got the RQ bug and wanted to publish an adventure in the same way adventures were published in White Dwarf magazine or by Judges Guild or anywhere in between (with most of the JC content probably trying to hew close to canon).

We need to break the mystique of Glorantha. I'm confident that it is NOT in the same realm as Tekumel though it may seem so. It IS an approachable setting, and there is a variety of offerings that guide you on your path to whatever level of immersion you desire.

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Quote

Johnstown Compendium would be a great place for anyone who got the RQ bug and wanted to publish an adventure in the same way adventures were published in White Dwarf magazine or by Judges Guild or anywhere in between (with most of the JC content probably trying to hew close to canon).

As someone who is doing just that. I agree.

The key to, as far as I am concerned, is to start on a micro level with Glorantha. Don't worry about what is going on on the macro level, and just try to kill that Broo which has been eyeing your herd.

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11 hours ago, ffilz said:

We need to break the mystique of Glorantha. I'm confident that it is NOT in the same realm as Tekumel though it may seem so. It IS an approachable setting, and there is a variety of offerings that guide you on your path to whatever level of immersion you desire.

That’s a great point.  There’s far less in print about Skyrealms of Jorune and that’s a damn sight harder to get into than Glorantha…

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16 hours ago, ffilz said:

I'm confident that it is NOT in the same realm as Tekumel though it may seem so. It IS an approachable setting, and there is a variety of offerings that guide you on your path to whatever level of immersion you desire.

 

I'd actually argue that Tekumel is not really that difficult - I've run it for people who know nothing about it before and they can pick it up quickly. It does need a GM who knows a bit about it and is prepared to say things like "Well you CAN do that if you want but your clan might object". I think it's a lot more accessible now than it was to people in the 1970s purely because there is more awareness of other cultures. 

The difficulty I have with Glorantha sometimes is that it's a bit of a big wobbly jelly where nothing is definite. That's a strength and a weakness.

Edited by d(sqrt(-1))
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On 5/19/2021 at 2:04 PM, Nick Brooke said:

So: a fairly lame or non-combatant opponent has 10-12 hit points, 3/4/5 per location (arms/rest/chest), weak armour (1-2 point leather?) and no damage bonus. Their skills will be lower than your adventurers'.

An average opponent has 13-15 hit points, 4/5/6 per location, better armour (3 or 4 point linen and scale?) and a +1D4 bonus. Similar skills to your adventurers.

A tough opponent has 16-18 hit points, 5/6/7 per location, really good armour (5 point chain or 6 point plate?), and a +1D6 bonus. Better skills than your adventurers.

Job done. Those are all the generic bandit, guard, soldier statblocks you will ever need. Season with appropriate offensive and defensive magic (Bladesharp or similar weapon enhancement and Protection or Shimmer; three distinctive Rune spells) and they are good to go.

Not to disagree with what Nick says, which makes excellent sense... but rather to give an alternative view from a GM who is challenged in keeping on-top of things, and why I find Stat blocks useful:

First, I like my foes to be distinguishable.  So, as they close for combat, I like to have a *very* brief description of the foe, (big and beefy, muscly, lithe, commanding...) and their arms/armour (but not too detailed).  Visible spells effects are really atmospheric as well.  A stat block gives me as a GM the detail I need to provide that flavour to the players. 

But mainly a stat block is helpful is to keep a record of what’s happening in a combat, otherwise it all gets away from me as a GM really quickly.

Combat is rarely over is a single blow, often, it’s the state of weapons that critical (it’s when a shield or parrying weapon is damaged and not blocking much anymore that you’ve an opportunity to take someone out), or it’s a series of wounds that finish things (often by surrender, or breaking off).

As a GM, unless I write damage/wounds down, I lose track *instantly*.  And the stat block is where it goes.  I even have to write down (on the stat block) who is facing each foe!  I'm sad enough to put a tick for each melee round at the top of the page.

But it’s a question of GM style.  For me detail light and winging it, doesn’t work for combat.  As soon as the fight is joined, as a referee, unless I record it, I wouldn’t (and didn’t) have a scooby what’s going on. 

However, outside combat, the detail of the stat block isn't useful.  I tend to transcribe NPCs for an non-combat encounter from the stat bock to a summary in a few key words, so I have them to hand all together, rather than having to search.

 

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6 hours ago, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

 

I'd actually argue that Tekumel is not really that difficult - I've run it for people who know nothing about it before and they can pick it up quickly. It does need a GM who knows a bit about it and is prepared to say things like "Well you CAN do that if you want but your clan might object". I think it's a lot more accessible now than it was to people in the 1970s purely because there is more awareness of other cultures. 

The difficulty I have with Glorantha sometimes is that it's a bit of a big wobbly jelly where nothing is definite. That's a strength and a weakness.

Playing in Tekumel is a lot different than GMing. Beyond my lack of much background in the inspirational cultures, what I found broke down my ability to relate was the almost total lack of any Earth flora and fauna. And no handy guide "bleebleblorps are like deer". So now not only do I have to do cultures I don't know, I also have to invent an ecology.

In Glorantha, I run using culture I'm familiar with, and if I need a deer or a wolf or whatever, I can do it (Gateway Bestiary helps for my RQ1/2 era kinda guy). Yea, there are some weird monsters, but they provide spice rather than being the norm that needs to be maintained.

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I think Glorantha is easy to play in but hard to GM, like EPT (I really miss playing in Tekumel!). For someone completely new to RQ, the GM boxed set that includes the main book, Bestiary, and GM Adventures and Six Seasons in Sartar from the Jonstown Compendium would give you what you need to get started! And to start the addiction that will make you buy more stuff! 🙂

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2 hours ago, ffilz said:

Playing in Tekumel is a lot different than GMing. Beyond my lack of much background in the inspirational cultures, what I found broke down my ability to relate was the almost total lack of any Earth flora and fauna. And no handy guide "bleebleblorps are like deer". So now not only do I have to do cultures I don't know, I also have to invent an ecology.

Well, you could say the same of D&D - lots of people know what Mind Flayers, Beholders, Perytons, Xorns, Kobolds are, and they are nothing like terrestrial creatures. Similarly for Hra, Jagji, Vringalu, Mrur, Serudla etc in Tekumel - once you know them you know them.  Hard thing no do, Do thing no hard.

EDIT: I just came across a long lost post I made on the gamingtavern.eu (before it lost its .eu domain) referred to in this post from 10 years ago (!): 

 

Edited by d(sqrt(-1))

Always start what you finish.

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