RQ:G Action economy of elemental attacks

[SevenSistersOfVinga]

After the initial two rounds of summon and control, is fighting with(not against) an elemental like:

Sorcery: command this round, a thick darkness attacks at the end of the next one. Now that everyone is dead, repeat next 2 rounds for new targets.

Like Bending(avatar): hit someone with your sword, and a whirlwind will knock them out (fix command, attack whoever I strike)

Like having a dog: point at the troll, whistle and the fire dog jumps on her while I do my stuff. 

I would love to know how you handle it, cheers!

[Scotty]

38 minutes ago, SevenSistersOfVinga said:

Like having a dog: point at the troll, whistle and the fire dog jumps on her while I do my stuff. 

This one. Using Command Cult spirit works assuming you make the POW vs POW roll, it does as you say for 15 mins. It's easier in combat as normal elementals have no DEX, so attack on SR12 (unless it specifically says otherwise).

so usually it's:

Like having a dog: point at the troll, whistle and the fire dog jumps on her after I do my stuff.

I have player state the intention of their elemental along with their adventurer every round. As elemental has no INT, if a target dies and there's one behind it, it will go for the next one, providing the commands make sense - "Throw the Lunar soldiers that are over there" vs. "Go for the one in the green hat".

[Arcadiagt5]

The immediate question, especially since the Summon Elemental spell is stackable, is whether or not you're summoning the elemental for a purpose that the god would approve of. 

Clear cut example: A Yelm initiate sees someone stealing and abusing the sacred Goldeneyes. Said initiate promptly summons as many small fire elementals as he can, points to the offender and says "He is mistreating Yelm's sacred beasts, sic 'em rex!" At that point, Command Cult Spirit would not, IMO, be required: the summoning has clearly been performed for reasons the god, and the elementals, will approve of: they will attack the offender with glee and zeal, then disappear after 15 minutes.

In more ambiguous cases, Command Cult Spirit is highly recommended and would act as Scotty indicates here:

2 minutes ago, Scotty said:

This one. Using Command Cult spirit works assuming you make the POW vs POW roll, it does as you say for 15 mins. It's easier in combat as normal elementals have no DEX, so attack on SR12 (unless it specifically says otherwise).

 

[SevenSistersOfVinga]

1 hour ago, Arcadiagt5 said:

... whether or not you're summoning the elemental for a purpose that the god would approve of. 

So if the summon gets out of the gem and sees a bunch of chaos monsters there is nothing else to say. Got it.

 

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I have player state the intention of their elemental along with their adventurer every round. 

This is perfectly clear, thank you both!

[HreshtIronBorne]

7 hours ago, SevenSistersOfVinga said:

8 hours ago, Arcadiagt5 said:

... whether or not you're summoning the elemental for a purpose that the god would approve of. 

So if the summon gets out of the gem and sees a bunch of chaos monsters there is nothing else to say. Got it

This is how we have been playing it in our most recent RQG campaign. The Ernaldan has saved the day at least twice with double castings of Summon Earth Elemental III. Once against a pair of Jack'O'Bears and again against Undead in the Rubble. The GM basically ruled that the targets were definitely and unmistakably Bad as far as the Earth Elementals were concerned, so they just went right in and started grinding them up! 2 or 3d6 to EVERY hit location is freaking awesome!

[Lordabdul]

On 5/28/2021 at 3:23 AM, Arcadiagt5 said:

At that point, Command Cult Spirit would not, IMO, be required: the summoning has clearly been performed for reasons the god, and the elementals, will approve of

Yeah same for me.

RQG p342: "Once summoned, an elemental acts according to its nature and cult affiliation, unless an appropriate Command Cult Spirit spell is cast and the elemental’s POW overcome by the caster with a resistance roll".

So basically, I (the GM) play the elemental a bit like a wild animal that acts instinctively. If the player spends the points on a Command spell, the player mostly plays the elemental themselves. This is useful when the player wants the elemental to do something specific, like keep someone restrained, take someone out of trouble, or hold a position. On the other hand, from the little experience I have, it also means that more than half the time the player doesn't need to spend more Rune Points than just the summon spell, because the elemental will naturally do what makes sense.

Spending 2 or 3 RPs on a medium or large elemental should be cause for celebrations and kick-ass scenes, so the GM should at least make the elemental do a couple real cool things.

Edited May 31, 2021 by lordabdul

[Byll]

The Beastiary seems to me to say that unless an elemental is commanded it will not act in support of it's summoner.

Since a large elemental's average POW is 20, even a priest with 21 POW would only have a 55% chance of overcoming it's POW to command it.

That sort of means you'd need to be be truly desperate to summon a large elemental unless you had a tag team of other casters prepared to step in to command it if the first attempt fails. Spending five rune points for a even chance that the the large Earth Elemental 'sinks into the soil' seems like a poor option.

Of course the elemental may have lower than average POW, but equally it may have more than average POW.

[Squaredeal Sten]

Summoned darkness elementals in choke points, right on top of the enemy.  The elemental doesn't have to go anywhere to be effective.  If it just stands it's driving them crazy with fear. 

Now if you wanted it to pursue - IMHO that takes Control.

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Summoned darkness elementals in choke points, right on top of the enemy.  The elemental doesn't have to go anywhere to be effective.  If it just stands it's driving them crazy with fear. 

And it was a very effective tactic, too!  🙂  Air or fire elemental would likely work well in similar situation, but the shade has the advantage of looking/acting like a Darkwall spell but delivering Fearshock attack to any who try to pass through.

[Byll]

I'm all for them hanging around in a half-arsed way ignoring the caster unable to tell friend from foe for the full 15 minutes, but that's not how the Bestiary entry for summoned elementals reads to me. 

Quote

They are capable of being controlled by spells, but when left on their own, they will simply do whatever is natural: fire elementals burn flammable materials within reach, water elementals flee to the lowest possible spot, earth elementals sink into the soil, darkness elementals flee light, and air elementals breeze around.

The uncontrolled fire elemental is useful if summoned in a sensible place, possibly the water one too, but most of the rest appear to just flee the scene if you have not controlled them (it's going to be rare for there to be no light for a darkness elemental to flee)

[tnli]

16 minutes ago, Byll said:

I'm all for them hanging around in a half-arsed way ignoring the caster unable to tell friend from foe for the full 15 minutes, but that's not how the Bestiary entry for summoned elementals reads to me. 

The uncontrolled fire elemental is useful if summoned in a sensible place, possibly the water one too, but most of the rest appear to just flee the scene if you have not controlled them (it's going to be rare for there to be no light for a darkness elemental to flee)

You are aware of such things as nights? (Joking, read below for more)

And seriously, as a GM I wouldn't make a darkness elemental run away from mere torches and such, instead, I would play them as embodying the fears of the darkness, there's a reason why you don't want to get out of the torchlight or campfire light, and then there might be other things that mean you have to get out of that (like missile fire from the opposition).

[SevenSistersOfVinga]

This means you make your summoner use a 2 rune point command spell every time they take the elemental out?

We were under the impression that you can summon on the fly 1-3 depending on size+2 command and 2 full rounds for the elemental to attack on the next one or have it on a binding matrix/trapping stone with a command spell used at the time of summoning, this takes only the 2 rounds since the elemental is commanded already 

Am I getting that right?

If they have to use command how do the spiritual version works since control requires a target with 0 mp.

Also, are common the spirits with rune magic? Sounds like a great way to get relatively cheap rune magic and they come with up to 4d6 according to the bestiary.

[Joerg]

The RW3 way to use a summoned elemental is to order it into a binding with the struggle to overcome its POW, and then call it forth using Command (or Control, or Dominate) without any chance at resisting while offering a sufficient volume of the element, and add a "and return to the binding when your time is up or when I tell you to do so".

An elemental cult spirit will act in the interest of the cult deity. That may include to listen to orders given by the summoning cultist, but is that reliable?

[dumuzid]

On 6/27/2021 at 6:33 PM, Squaredeal Sten said:

Summoned darkness elementals in choke points, right on top of the enemy.

I once used this to great effect against the Tusk Riders.  Met their charge with some hard Gorian war women, unleashed a dehori into their midst, held them in place so Grazelander allies could cycle charge into the back of the pig formation.  Caught between fire and darkness, they didn't stick around long.

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 6/28/2021 at 4:53 AM, Byll said:

..... The uncontrolled fire elemental is useful if summoned in a sensible place, possibly the water one too, but most of the rest appear to just flee the scene if you have not controlled them (it's going to be rare for there to be no light for a darkness elemental to flee)

Summoned indoors, a Darkness elemental will not go outdoors into full daylight and I don't see that it has a  reason to wander around when it is already in a dim building.