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Lhankor Mhy & Issaries in the Celestial Court


Shiningbrow

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Just asking - is there anything on this (these?)

Especially given that LM is the son of Acos/Mostal (depending on what you read), it would make sense that LM was in the Celestial Court (perhaps in professional rivalry with Buserian).

 

ETA: sources requested.

Edited by Shiningbrow
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Celestial Court members were the original manifestations of their respective Runes.

Lhankor Mhy is the next level down from the Celestial Court, i.e. One step removed from the Great Powers.

So, he would not have been an actual member of the Celestial Court.

He could have been an advisor or assistant, though, that makes sense.

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Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

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4 hours ago, soltakss said:

Celestial Court members were the original manifestations of their respective Runes.

Lhankor Mhy is the next level down from the Celestial Court, i.e. One step removed from the Great Powers.

So, he would not have been an actual member of the Celestial Court.

He could have been an advisor or assistant, though, that makes sense.

  👍👍👍

I'm just considering Heroquests for those cults, and being able to access Celestial Court antics.

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1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

being able to access Celestial Court antics

I doubt they function as a "court" in the sense of actually doing or performing anything.  They simply ARE.  i.e. they are the form or manifestation of a given Rune (and only that Rune).  When they interact they may create or fashion something new (e.g. Lhankor Mhy), or perhaps observe how the combinations of Runes interact but most simply have their own domains (e.g. Kargan Tor's Arena of Conflict).

8 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

it would make sense that LM was in the Celestial Court (perhaps in professional rivalry with Buserian).

I suspect LM may have been created by Acos and Orenoar to go out and record how all the combinations of Runes interact, perhaps bring back observations.  He would not per se have been in the Celestial Court as he is not a single Rune. 

Btw, LM = Buserian, so would not have a "rivalry" with himself.

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11 minutes ago, AndrewTBP said:

God Learner!

😉

Not so much God Learning as the process of mutually recognising deities that occurred in the First Age. The Orlanthi recognised the Dara Happen Yelm as Orlanth's solar rival, and the Dara Happens recognised Umatum and Rebellus Terminus as the Theyalan Orlanth. Buserian was recognised as the Dara Happen name for Lhankor Mhy. And so on. As both languages and peoples coexisted within the High Council for the Lands of Genertela, these sorts of mutual acknowledgements of major deities were inevitable.  

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I seem to recall reading that Issaries is at least sometimes stated to be the child of Larnste and Harana Ilor, but I think that's likely a God-Learnerism to refer to the fact that his Runes are Change and Harmony, since if Issaries was traditionally considered Orlanth's maternal uncle (as he would be if he was Larnste's son) you'd expect it to be mentioned in the old myths. Which, as far as I know, isn't the case.

Though of course, now that it is apparently considered true, you could probably make something interesting out of that.

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23 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Just asking - is there anything on this (these?)

Especially given that LM is the son of Acos/Mostal (depending on what you read), it would make sense that LM was in the Celestial Court (perhaps in professional rivalry with Buserian).

 

ETA: sources requested.

King of Sartar mentions them in The First Ring among a great number of less privileged deities.

This seems to imply to me that they did not stick around with the Celestial Court or the Yelmic Court, but went out into the world doing stuff instead, falling into the outsider category.

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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21 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I doubt they function as a "court" in the sense of actually doing or performing anything.  They simply ARE.  i.e. they are the form or manifestation of a given Rune (and only that Rune).  When they interact they may create or fashion something new (e.g. Lhankor Mhy), or perhaps observe how the combinations of Runes interact but most simply have their own domains (e.g. Kargan Tor's Arena of Conflict).

I suspect LM may have been created by Acos and Orenoar to go out and record how all the combinations of Runes interact, perhaps bring back observations.  He would not per se have been in the Celestial Court as he is not a single Rune. 

Btw, LM = Buserian, so would not have a "rivalry" with himself.

GRoY has that Buserian is the son of Yelm and Dendara.. somewhat different to the Orlanthi version.

A) - is there a LM version of  his origins, separate from the Orlanthi version?

B) how many LMs will say that their god is the same as Buserian? Is there going to be another Monrogh to bring them back together?

C) Buserian was certainly an important part of the Celestial Court and mythos... if LM and Buserian are the same, then like Elmal/Yelmalio, one presumes all of those myths could be brought together...

 

Does Issaries have a Yelmic equivalent?

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2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

A) - is there a LM version of  his origins, separate from the Orlanthi version?

IMG there is one and it gets brought out a little at their weddings but few of the day-to-day beards really know much about it or like to talk about it. I'll let one of them decide if they want to share. (Their weddings are great. If you ever get an invite, take it.)

2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

B) how many LMs will say that their god is the same as Buserian? Is there going to be another Monrogh to bring them back together?

Not many in Dragon Pass right now because it isn't good marketing from a political perspective. They might acknowledge the functional identity but don't emphasize it. Probably in Temertain's "philosophical" era the Knowledge Synthesists were jockeying for the ear of the king with grand unification theories but have since scattered ahead of the wind. Worldwide there are probably a few more here and there but the politics get less tense the farther you get from Dragon Pass.

They could easily spawn another Monrogh if they wanted to but only your players know for sure. Most NPC beards are far too busy fretting about the defective aortist in court Teshnan or whatever to concentrate on anything important. The danger, of course, is that the Buserians do have a motive to prove the identity from their side and might concoct a compelling Truth Argument first. If I were an alert LKM type I would actually be much more engaged with trying to proactively prove that Buserian is someone else and inferior, and only incidentally a pale local shadow of the one True god.

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Does Issaries have a Yelmic equivalent?

The exoteric answer is that they once had a local Issaries (II.20 on the Wall) whom Plentonius assigned "Lokarnos" but this is not the modern teamster. Modern Pelorian Issaries is just Issaries and modern Lokarnos is largely content to drive the truck except in weirdo zones like Sun Dome Prax, where they've reconstructed a figure more like the old II.20 and say he's equivalent to Fair Exchange. Of course within the empire all this is mediated through Etyries as far up the Yelm aristocracy as it gets.

A somewhat more arcane response starts by asking people where they'd point to Larnste on the Wall and going from there. But it's usually bad form to remind the Dara Happan elites that you know more about their archaic religion than they do.

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