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Probably Typical Stupid Question from Newcomer to Glorantha


LordNigel

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4 hours ago, LordNigel said:

I'm also aware that the Heroquest system is much more "high level" and heroic. But it sounds also very good for that. That's why I have previously considered playing some HQ sessions with my players as well, just to change the feel a little bit. However, until I get to play all that I have for RQ it's likely that the new RQ rules for HeroQuesting get published.

Until the canon rules appear, there is https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/326489/Secrets-of-HeroQuesting

 

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4 hours ago, LordNigel said:

I'm also aware that the Heroquest system is much more "high level" and heroic. But it sounds also very good for that. That's why I have previously considered playing some HQ sessions with my players as well, just to change the feel a little bit. However, until I get to play all that I have for RQ it's likely that the new RQ rules for HeroQuesting get published.

This is the first time that I have the chance to use two robust systems to play in the same game world, so it must be fun to play with that. (or perhaps not, pehaps playing HQ will spoil my players and then they'll hate to go back to the "normalcy" of RQ...)

"High level" really has to do with the stories told, not the game systems used.  Both HQG and RQG can be fully heroic and engage characters in heroquesting, or can be very gritty, low-level games.  Particular actions are more abstracted in HQG, more cinematic in a sense, but you shouldn't think that you have to use HeroQuest in order to go heroquesting or RuneQuest if you want to hang around lowly dives in Pavis.

I run games with each and find they can both tell the stories I wish to run including heroquests.

4 hours ago, LordNigel said:

I always thought of HeroQuesting as something "not so common", but this is the first time that I heard it described this way. It makes sense that it would be rare and terrifying though. Nevertheless, it sounds absolutely amazing, especially for more advanced characters (which makes sense; it would be weird for newbies to go on HeroQuesting and save the day).

Heroquests do not occur everyday, but any seasonal holy day is an opportunity for adventure, including heroquests.  And they are not the sole province of advanced characters.  Initiation into adulthood or into a cult is a heroquest - not necessarily one that is played out, but they could be.  A Rite of Spring festival or a Harvest festival in a community are annual events that touch upon the world of the gods.  They can simply be the annual event, or they can become heroquests when enemies or ill luck strikes and disrupts the event.

Some heroquests may look very mundane and be entirely in "this world", but still have broader ramifications.  Some can touch on or pass into the Spirit World or the Gods World or the Underworld (I've led my players into all three using both HQG and RQG, and in the latter these are characters pretty much post-character creation, nothing "advanced" needed). 

9 hours ago, Darius West said:

Perhaps we might consider one's initiation into adulthood a hero quest of sorts, but is it really? 

Certainly is in my games!  I definitely follow the path delineated in Six Seasons in Sartar, as well as Greg's own descriptions of initiation rites.

9 hours ago, Darius West said:

If hero quests are easy, you are GMing them wrong imo.  They should be terrifying.  Your characters are literally meeting gods or embodying the role of gods, and facing mythical problems and legendary enemies.  If a child from your village goes missing 411, there is always a secret terror among the parents that they have somehow wandered onto the Hero Plane, and unless they are frantically fortunate kids, they are worse than dead, i.e. may be spiritually destroyed or return cursed or chaotic etc.

No disagreement here.  Heroquests are neither trivial nor easy, quite likely terrifying, possibly deadly...or worse.  But they are also fun to run and game. 🙂

9 hours ago, Darius West said:

HQ is sort of Glorantha Pulp Fiction, whereas RQ's various editions are more about the gritty realism of daily life.  That is not to say that you can't build a hero in RQG, just that it will take longer, and is not the character's "birthright" the way it is in HQ.

Really either can be played pulpy or gritty.  Personally I like to see hero-building by my players, but in neither game is it an easy path.

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3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

"High level" really has to do with the stories told, not the game systems used.  Both HQG and RQG can be fully heroic and engage characters in heroquesting, or can be very gritty, low-level games.  Particular actions are more abstracted in HQG, more cinematic in a sense, but you shouldn't think that you have to use HeroQuest in order to go heroquesting or RuneQuest if you want to hang around lowly dives in Pavis.

I run games with each and find they can both tell the stories I wish to run including heroquests.

Heroquests do not occur everyday, but any seasonal holy day is an opportunity for adventure, including heroquests.  And they are not the sole province of advanced characters.  Initiation into adulthood or into a cult is a heroquest - not necessarily one that is played out, but they could be.  A Rite of Spring festival or a Harvest festival in a community are annual events that touch upon the world of the gods.  They can simply be the annual event, or they can become heroquests when enemies or ill luck strikes and disrupts the event.

Some heroquests may look very mundane and be entirely in "this world", but still have broader ramifications.  Some can touch on or pass into the Spirit World or the Gods World or the Underworld (I've led my players into all three using both HQG and RQG, and in the latter these are characters pretty much post-character creation, nothing "advanced" needed). 

Certainly is in my games!  I definitely follow the path delineated in Six Seasons in Sartar, as well as Greg's own descriptions of initiation rites.

No disagreement here.  Heroquests are neither trivial nor easy, quite likely terrifying, possibly deadly...or worse.  But they are also fun to run and game. 🙂

Really either can be played pulpy or gritty.  Personally I like to see hero-building by my players, but in neither game is it an easy path.

Thanks! Yeah, I feel that I lean toward this philosophy. The group and the story dictate what is possible, not the gaming system. Sure, some systems lend themselves better for certain things and this might facilitate certain styles of play, but that would be like saying that D&D is only made for min-maxing murder hobos with no interest in roleplaying.

It seems to me (in my utter ignorance) that HeroQuesting is one of the things that make Glorantha so special, and even if it is a rare thing, rare things do frequently happen in the stories we play at the table, because we're after memorable moments after all.

However, it's very nice to find a balance between everything that's being said here. This avoids making HeroQuesting too commonplace, which would water down the "epic" factor a little.
It serves to show, though, that indeed HeroQuesting seems to be something for a more experienced GM, especially before the official rules come by.

In the series of videos I'm watching on youtube, J-M mentions that he created an adventures he calls "Ernalda's Horn of Plenty" (IIRC), where he introduces the players to the concept of HeroQuesting through what he calls "reverse HeroQuesting". The idea is that the Broo are conducting a HeroQuest for their own needs and when the Quest requires an "enemy" to appear, the PCs are summoned to act as the menace agains the Broo. This sounded fascinating to me, but I'd never know how to even begin GM'ing this without proper guidelines.

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One of the points, why Glorantha is so special to me, is the fact, that Glorantha is build completely on Myths and Legends, which are real not just stories. Most of these Myths and Legends happened in pre-historic times (i.e. before the Dawn of Time). And in a Heroquest you participate in one of these Myths or Legends, and in the best (or is it in the worst?) cases you will be able to change these Myths or Legends (and therefore changing Glorantha!). These changes can happen on different levels: personal, community/clan, tribe, kingdom/empire/nation or even world. And that's the power of Heroquests in Glorantha.

Edited by Oracle
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15 hours ago, LordNigel said:

I always thought of HeroQuesting as something "not so common", but this is the first time that I heard it described this way. It makes sense that it would be rare and terrifying though. Nevertheless, it sounds absolutely amazing, especially for more advanced characters (which makes sense; it would be weird for newbies to go on HeroQuesting and save the day).
However, the "real GM book" release sounds too far away and I hope some adventures include HeroQuests here and there just to whet my table's appetite.

People HeroQuest very early in my campaigns, so it is quite common for newbies to save the day.

For me, HeroQuesting is dangerous and scary, but is eminently doable.

Other people disagree, reserving it for powerful heroes, but why should they have all the fun?

15 hours ago, LordNigel said:

I'm also aware that the Heroquest system is much more "high level" and heroic. But it sounds also very good for that. That's why I have previously considered playing some HQ sessions with my players as well, just to change the feel a little bit. However, until I get to play all that I have for RQ it's likely that the new RQ rules for HeroQuesting get published.

The be honest, the HeroQuest system doesn't have a lot to do with HeroQuesting, both in the rules presented and the scenarios published. You can do HeroQuesting as easily using the RuneQuest rules as with the HeroQuest rules.

14 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Is this really correct?

As far as I understand, there is such a variation in degree of Heroquests that generalizing them like this might be reductive. Holy Time rituals are often This World heroests, aren't they? And as you said, initiation rituals are effectively mini-heroquests. 

In my Glorantha, HeroQuests are relatively common.

 

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Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

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On 6/11/2021 at 3:22 PM, soltakss said:

But, basically, if I ran the Cradle, I would use the stat blocks that are present in the Cradle.

I recently ran the Cradle using RQG, and I found it necessary to adapt them a bit here and there, mostly because they would have been a bit underpowered in RQG. But I also beefed up encounters by adding a few NPCs from elsewhere, and the RQ3 stats for tough opponents were still very much tough opponents (eg Coders, Sun County rune masters). A few rules changes *drastically* changed encounters, and I may have house ruled a few as a result (in particular, I dislike the RQG RAW that any Orlanthi who relies on woad will almost certainly die to a Sunspear). 

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On 6/20/2021 at 9:03 AM, davecake said:

I recently ran the Cradle using RQG, and I found it necessary to adapt them a bit here and there, mostly because they would have been a bit underpowered in RQG. But I also beefed up encounters by adding a few NPCs from elsewhere, and the RQ3 stats for tough opponents were still very much tough opponents (eg Coders, Sun County rune masters). A few rules changes *drastically* changed encounters, and I may have house ruled a few as a result (in particular, I dislike the RQG RAW that any Orlanthi who relies on woad will almost certainly die to a Sunspear). 

Thanks for sharing this!
People mentioned that tweaking here or there would be necessary, but for me as a newcomer it would be harder to handwave things since I don't know what level of challenge to expect. It's always great to have more details about what other people did or didn't do when adapting!

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