Temporary spirit vortices

[Lordabdul]

Are spirit vortices (RQG p374) always some kind of "fixed" landmark, or can they come and go like some kind of spirit world weather phenomenon? If the latter, can anybody think of cool reasons for a spirit vortex to appear or even to move around?

 

[David Scott]

11 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Are spirit vortices (RQG p374) always some kind of "fixed" landmark,

Yes.

11 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

or can they come and go like some kind of spirit world weather phenomenon?

Yes

11 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

If the latter, can anybody think of cool reasons for a spirit vortex to appear or even to move around?

The Eternal Battle and Hidden Greens are two that spring to mind. There are likely some Orlanth/Air ones that are in the middle air and drift like clouds, or water ones that swirl and drift in rivers, lakes, oceans and seas. Perhaps Beast rune vortices that are a pack of spirit animals or a sky one that an every moving flock of birds.

[Lordabdul]

11 minutes ago, David Scott said:

There are likely some Orlanth/Air ones that are in the middle air and drift like clouds, or water ones that swirl and drift in rivers, lakes, oceans and seas. Perhaps Beast rune vortices that are a pack of spirit animals or a sky one that an every moving flock of birds.

Ah nice, thanks. I could picture some Orlanthi priest summoning an entire cumulonimbus of air spirits, bringing the vortex down to the tribal ceremonial grounds during a High Holy Day.  This could be a nice alternative to casting 20 Summon Spirit Cult spells in a row for such a big occasion... it might even be a cool way to bring a host of cult spirits from which a select handful will leave the vortex to ally themselves to newly promoted Rune Priests/Lords, or get bound to ceremonial items made that day. Kinda like a  lottery where the big spinning wheel with numbered balls is in fact a tornado of spirits!

[jajagappa]

12 minutes ago, David Scott said:

There are likely some Orlanth/Air ones that are in the middle air and drift like clouds, or water ones that swirl and drift in rivers, lakes, oceans and seas. Perhaps Beast rune vortices that are a pack of spirit animals or a sky one that an every moving flock of birds.

Not to mention Trickster vortices that could pop up periodically at famous Trickster sites (in my games, the Silverwood of lost thoughts, forgotten dreams, and unwanted memories is one such Spirit place that is often very close to the mundane world - usually just down a Rabbit Hole 😉 ). 

I also tend to think of certain places such as the Colymar Wilds to be something of a Spirit Vortex - the trails within lead in and out of the Spirit World (and possibly the Nightwood of the Underworld) which is why the place is so dangerous to try wandering through without a guide.

[Joerg]

Are the Hidden Greens (or Hidden Castles) tied to the Spirit World? I thought they were bits of the Hero Plane whose Surface World equivalent is only weakly woven into the fabric of Arachne Solara's Web.

[Arcadiagt5]

3 hours ago, David Scott said:

Yes

 

3 hours ago, David Scott said:

Yes

Ahhhh, Glorantha. Where the answer to the question of “Does X or Y apply?” is usually, and validly, “Yes”. 🙂

EDIT: Bonus points apply if X and Y are contradictory. Double bonus points apply if X and Y are contradictory and the God Talkers weren’t involved. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Arcadiagt5

[Arcadiagt5]

2 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Ah nice, thanks. I could picture some Orlanthi priest summoning an entire cumulonimbus of air spirits, bringing the vortex down to the tribal ceremonial grounds during a High Holy Day.  This could be a nice alternative to casting 20 Summon Spirit Cult spells in a row for such a big occasion... it might even be a cool way to bring a host of cult spirits from which a select handful will leave the vortex to ally themselves to newly promoted Rune Priests/Lords, or get bound to ceremonial items made that day. Kinda like a  lottery where the big spinning wheel with numbered balls is in fact a tornado of spirits!

Did… did you just invent the Gloranthan version of the Fate/Grand Order gacha? 

[David Scott]

13 hours ago, Joerg said:

Are the Hidden Greens (or Hidden Castles) tied to the Spirit World? I thought they were bits of the Hero Plane whose Surface World equivalent is only weakly woven into the fabric of Arachne Solara's Web.

The Paraxian Hidden Greens have their own spirit world associated with them. It comes and goes with the Hidden Green. I'd image the same for Hidden Castles.

[David Scott]

13 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Ah nice, thanks. I could picture some Orlanthi priest summoning an entire cumulonimbus of air spirits, bringing the vortex down to the tribal ceremonial grounds during a High Holy Day.  This could be a nice alternative to casting 20 Summon Spirit Cult spells in a row for such a big occasion... it might even be a cool way to bring a host of cult spirits from which a select handful will leave the vortex to ally themselves to newly promoted Rune Priests/Lords, or get bound to ceremonial items made that day. Kinda like a  lottery where the big spinning wheel with numbered balls is in fact a tornado of spirits!

Although vortices are in the spirit world. Though if you want to have them manifest in the Middle World that would be cool.

[Darius West]

The key to your inquiry lordabdul, I suspect, is to ask the question "What causes spirit vortices ?".  There are a number of different answers, so lets get a bit Godlearner for a moment and discuss them as part of a living ecology.

Some spirit vortices will not be true vortices, but rather a form of swarming associated with the spirit equivalent of a large seasonal food source.  This might accrue from the residue from a temple performing a ceremony where excess power radiates, or a sudden seasonal effect such as a regional blooming event.  The spirits will mill about trying to increase their POW.  Then there are the appearances of magic vortices, likely as a by-product of the expending of powerful magic in the mortal world, such as sorcery that would act in much the same way.

Then there is the Queen Bee effect.  This is when an individual or group of spirits serve as attractors for other spirits.  This is a bit like a spirit court or spirit party.  Perhaps they teach spirits something, or can convey them safely to the underworld and rebirth?  When gods move through the spirit world, such as when they attend their worshippers' ceremonies, they invariably attract spirits in their wake, especially as they will generally disperse themselves into multiple forms to be present at multiple temples.  These events have a major effect on the spirit ecology.

Then there are the geographical features, where spirits fall into traps and can't get out.  The equivalent of a spirit La Brea Tar Pit, or a Spirit "chasm" that they fall into, or perhaps even the current of a spirit river that sweeps them away, or a whirlwind that gathers them up.  It may well be that the Spirit world acts somewhat like a taut blanket, in that a powerful spirit "of sufficient density" begins to attract spirits to it because it deforms the local environment towards itself, but also requires a certain amount of energy to escape.

I would suspect that there are also times when spirits will mill about with each other in order to use a herd strategy to protect themselves from spirit predators.  This behavior may wind up generating a permanent feature.

Probably the most important however are the spirit vortexes associated with a particular site in the mortal realm, that goes largely unnoticed by most people for its "holiness" but attracts spirits, not because they are trapped, but because they stand to benefit from its proximity.  It might be a place where spirits all act as if they have extra protection, or where a universal truce is in force such as a forgotten Issaries market site or a Daka Fal Axis Mundi, or a permanent source of sustenance for spirits.  This will act as a gathering point for spirits and might be considered a spirit settlement.  This is mostly what the Spirit vortices described in RQG 374 describes imo.  The mortal world expression of this might be a huge mesa or visible geographical feature, or a graveyard, or a ruin/haunted house, or a forgotten watercourse etc.

The fact is that shamans are likely to be driven away from most temples, as the spirits there are "not to be harvested" as most are in some way allied with the deity.  The same applies to graveyards, as there are few people who want the ghosts of their dead relatives' ghost being shoved in a crystal by "some Praxian with a bone in his nose".  As such, the shamans come to know where spirits gather that are not the typical places, and these are the places that become part of their vortex lore.  At least that's my take on the matter.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Darius West

[Lordabdul]

7 hours ago, David Scott said:

Although vortices are in the spirit world. Though if you want to have them manifest in the Middle World that would be cool.

Yes, sorry, I pictured all this happening in the spirit world indeed. Although there could be some more-or-less subtle side effects in the real world like some weird breeze or whispers or whatever... maybe more on a High Holy Day or Sacred Time when boundaries between worlds are thin. It makes for a nice visual. Worst case, someone (NPC or spirits) casts the necessary magic or uses the necessary ability to render many of these spirits visible.

[PhilHibbs]

So really there's two things going on here - soft places, where the boundary is thin, and spirit vortices, which are on the spirit plane.

No doubt some phenomena like The Eternal Battle are both. A single cause that manifests as both a soft place and a spirit vortex.

I think I got the term "soft place" from Neil Gaiman's Sandman, but it works in this context. I can't remember if there is a Gloranthan term.

[PhilHibbs]

Oh. p375:

Quote

Spirit Places

Some spirit vortices are places where the Middle World and
the Spirit World lie close together. These spirit places are
usually places where great amounts of magical energy have
been discharged, such as in a battle, a divine marriage, or
other magical action of great note.

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by PhilHibbs