Spellcasting tactics

[Atgxtg]

I prefer 'No Declaration' over 'Declaration' because... it makes players decide quicker (and spares me the embarrassment, with my extreme age and failing faculties, of not remembering what someone said they'd do 10 seconds ago). Oh, and, it's simpler. Does this mean I agree with anybody?

(Perhaps I haven't been paying enough attention - could someone tell me what the new BRP default system is, please?)

Nope. It is just over the effect of do so on a game. Without it, you have a lot more 3SR penalties for actions.

Unless you ignore the 3SR penalty for the first action in a round.

[Atgxtg]

Who's Koslter?

He is one of the strange race of beings commonly referred to as typos. They are related to gremlins, but are less malicious and cause less mischief. In general they are harmless and only result in a slight increase in entropy and misunderstanding. It's only with certain subject, such as martial arts, where they can cause any great deal of confusion and embarrassment.

PS. The funniest typo in all RPGing was one that a friend made when writing the Martial Arts skill down on his custom designed RQ character sheet. It was even funnier since he showed the sheet to some none gamers as an example of what an RQ character looks like. Alas, some typos are too powerful for spell checker.

Hint-switch the "t" and the "i".

[drohem]

PS. The funniest typo in all RPGing was one that a friend made when writing the Martial Arts skill down on his custom designed RQ character sheet. It was even funnier since he showed the sheet to some none gamers as an example of what an RQ character looks like. Alas, some typos are too powerful for spell checker.

Hint-switch the "t" and the "i".

Well, if you are married, then it's an invaluable skill to have and develop. Get those boxes check quickly!

[Atgxtg]

Well, if you are married, then it's an invaluable skill to have and develop. Get those boxes check quickly!

It was funny how many non gamers wanted to look over the equipment and tools section.

[Nightshade]

I think you are underestimating it.

As you tell, it is very important during "complex interactions of archery and spellcasting", but those interactions are not rare.

But I think they aren't that common, either; as I said, taking time out to spend a lot of time doing archery would have been a luxury in our game most of the time whether we were using declaration or not. That's been true in almost any game I've seen. So in practice, that _is_ a fairly uncommon event; and it had no effect on anyone doing primarily melee attacks worth noticing, and that was the majority of character.

And it does not affect only the 1st round, because actions that carry over from 1 round to the other one replace the action of the new round.

I'm not at all sure what relevance that has, since casting across rounds wasn't common anyway, and the point was that the three SR prep time was just done at the end of the prior round, where no one otherwise had anything useful to do with their strike ranks anyway.

[Nightshade]

I agree with Koslter. Basically, I think the difference between having a declaration phase and not makes or breaks the tactics of the game. That is why I think Nightshade has a very different take on things than we do.

For instance, without a declaration phase, any roundthat a character moves will prevent them from prepping a spell. With the declaration phase, prepping wasn't necessary. THe same with change form missile to melee or spell to melee and back.

Well, if they move much; Prepping is only 3 SRs, so you could certainly attack, move for a couple strike ranks, and then prep. But I never saw people have much of a need for the other. And as far as I can tell, if you cast a spell you need to reprep for melee whether you're using declaration or not. Certainly that's what the language on preparing weapons makes me think (the exception being spells cast on weapons, of course, but that doesn't require reprep under non-declaration, either).

I'd go so far as to say that Nightshade's distaste of disrupt as a cheap tactic stems from this. With a declaration phase it is almost impossible to stop a spell with a disrupt unless the spell was very slow/powerful or the disrupter

Honestly, I don't think it'd be useful even with quick casting; its the issue that there are three rolls involved; getting the spell off, overcoming resistance, and failing the Int roll. As I said, that's about a net 20% chance. Even if I didn't have to prep it, I'd have better things to do with my time and magic point. It was a little better prior to RQ3 when battle magic had no failure chance, but even then, most people felt like there were more useful things to do in the majority of cases.

had a very high DEX. Without a declaration phase, it is easy, as all you need to do is wait for someone to start casting and then switch to a disrupt. As both combantats will suffer a 3SR penalty, the disrupt has the edge.

You can do that under non-declaration too; its just the likelyhood of success that makes it mostly worthless.

[Kloster]

Who's Koslter?

I think it's me.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Kloster]

...

Honestly, I don't think it'd be useful even with quick casting; its the issue that there are three rolls involved; getting the spell off, overcoming resistance, and failing the Int roll. As I said, that's about a net 20% chance. Even if I didn't have to prep it, I'd have better things to do with my time and magic point. It was a little better prior to RQ3 when battle magic had no failure chance, but even then, most people felt like there were more useful things to do in the majority of cases.

...

I agree. That's why I told it's better to do it on someone who is trying to heal (already wounded and the chance on failing INT roll) than on somebody else. The chance is low but the gain is higher on those targets.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[TRose]

One of the things that really changed things for us as far as Magic goes was when the First Wizard got a familiar. The nice thing about the smaller familiars was nobody pays attention to them at first during combat, so that little mouse can cast to his heart content . We figured that why wizards in stories like mice, frogs and other mundane familiars, nobody pays attention to them while the bear familiar gets an arbalast in the head. And with only one hit location they are easy to armor enchant so when people do start to notice them they dont get squished so easy.. We also allowed allied spirits and fetches to cast spell( In return Fetches where not allowed to posses other people) and my Shaman Fetch became the main healer of the group.

So called pet brigade ended up casting more spells then the characters did in combat.

[Kloster]

One of the things that really changed things for us as far as Magic goes was when the First Wizard got a familiar. The nice thing about the smaller familiars was nobody pays attention to them at first during combat, so that little mouse can cast to his heart content . We figured that why wizards in stories like mice, frogs and other mundane familiars, nobody pays attention to them while the bear familiar gets an arbalast in the head. And with only one hit location they are easy to armor enchant so when people do start to notice them they dont get squished so easy.. We also allowed allied spirits and fetches to cast spell( In return Fetches where not allowed to posses other people) and my Shaman Fetch became the main healer of the group.

So called pet brigade ended up casting more spells then the characters did in combat.

They are allowed to cast spells. Allied spirits are even initiates of the cult, so have access to one use runic magic. The problem for this tactic is the perception of the target.

Familiars (at least animal based ones) can see, so no problemo.

Allied spirits bind to animals (an alynx for Orlanth forex) are in the same position.

A Humakt allied spirit bind in a sword has no eye, so will need a spell to be able to target the following combat or healing spells (soul sight, second sight, mystic vision are the one that comes to mind).

A fetch is discorporate, so I don't know.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Nightshade]

I agree. That's why I told it's better to do it on someone who is trying to heal (already wounded and the chance on failing INT roll) than on somebody else. The chance is low but the gain is higher on those targets.

No doubt. The question is, is the gain greater than other things you could be doing with your time? As I said, in most case the answer was "yes".

[Kloster]

No doubt. The question is, is the gain greater than other things you could be doing with your time? As I said, in most case the answer was "yes".

It's easy to disrupt and strike in the same round.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Nightshade]

It's easy to disrupt and strike in the same round.

It still takes up extra time. You can almost guarentee if anyone else is attacking you, they'll hit first at that point. And that's true no matter where you sit on the prep issues.

[Kloster]

It still takes up extra time. You can almost guarentee if anyone else is attacking you, they'll hit first at that point. And that's true no matter where you sit on the prep issues.

True, it's a risk.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[soltakss]

Well, if you are married, then it's an invaluable skill to have and develop. Get those boxes check quickly!

Yes, Marital Arts (Knowledge Base 00%) is used to enhance the Marital experience.

Despite what the unmarried ones amongst us think, it mainly consists of things like "Put those shelves up! Take the rubbish out! Do the hoovering! Mow the lawn! Let me watch my programme!" and only very, very rarely touches on that which causes sniggering at the back.

[soltakss]

They are allowed to cast spells. Allied spirits are even initiates of the cult, so have access to one use runic magic. The problem for this tactic is the perception of the target.

Familiars (at least animal based ones) can see, so no problemo.

Allied spirits bind to animals (an alynx for Orlanth forex) are in the same position.

A Humakt allied spirit bind in a sword has no eye, so will need a spell to be able to target the following combat or healing spells (soul sight, second sight, mystic vision are the one that comes to mind).

An allied spirit is in mind-link with its master, so can see through its master's eyes. So, unless the Runemaster is unconscious, the allied spirit can cast spells quite happily. It can also cast spells on its master with range touch as it is effectively touching its master at all times.

A fetch is discorporate, so I don't know.

Depending whether you want to allow fetches to cast spells, they have to become Visible to interact with the mundane plane, in which case they can see anything around (probably up to their POW in metres) and can be seen.

[Kloster]

An allied spirit is in mind-link with its master, so can see through its master's eyes. So, unless the Runemaster is unconscious, the allied spirit can cast spells quite happily. It can also cast spells on its master with range touch as it is effectively touching its master at all times.

...

Thanks for the clarification.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Rurik]

Yes, Marital Arts (Knowledge Base 00%) is used to enhance the Marital experience.

Despite what the unmarried ones amongst us think, it mainly consists of things like "Put those shelves up! Take the rubbish out! Do the hoovering! Mow the lawn! Let me watch my programme!" and only very, very rarely touches on that which causes sniggering at the back.

The sniggering thing is covered by the Pre-Marital Arts skill.

[RMS]

An allied spirit is in mind-link with its master, so can see through its master's eyes. So, unless the Runemaster is unconscious, the allied spirit can cast spells quite happily. It can also cast spells on its master with range touch as it is effectively touching its master at all times.

Right. It can use it's own eyesight or it's master's. A particularly nasty tactical application of this that one of my player's Wind Lord has used is as follows:

1. Wind Lord sneaks up to some place outside a sealed castle wall, and preps all manner of offensive and defensive magic.

2. Alynx allied spirit (being a cat) finds a way through crooks and crevices into said castle and ends up in rafters or on roof top where he has a good vantage point.

3. Wind Lord/allied spirit casts Teleport* to put Wind Lord in a strategic location with all of his powerful magic up and his foe's magic not up, and all with surprise. Bonus: the allied spirit still has an unknown vantage point from which to supply magical aid.

4. Wind Lord kills appropriate foe(s) and as overwhelming forces converge on Wind Lord, Wind Lord Teleports* back out to predetermined temple destination miles away.

5. Alynx quietly and calmly sneaks out of castle and makes his way cross country to meet up with master. Any wild cat can do this, so a cat with all it's natural instincts plus awakened intelligence and magic would be practically impossible to catch.

This particular Wind Lord has pulled that tactic off a couple of times. In the mix of that is frequently a handful of very powerful sylphs to really up the death-n-destruction.

* I can't remember which is Guided Teleport and which is Teleport, but with the pair this is easy to pull off.

I almost forgot, but the other Wind Lord/Storm Voice that is more of a magical/clerical type than a warrior, has done something similar, but it involved the allied spirit calling down multiple Thunderbolts on people rather than teleporting the character in. It's still nasty as that's pretty much an insta-kill type spell if used correctly with enough castings.

[Kloster]

Right. It can use it's own eyesight or it's master's. A particularly nasty tactical application of this that one of my player's Wind Lord has used is as follows:

1. Wind Lord sneaks up to some place outside a sealed castle wall, and preps all manner of offensive and defensive magic.

2. Alynx allied spirit (being a cat) finds a way through crooks and crevices into said castle and ends up in rafters or on roof top where he has a good vantage point.

3. Wind Lord/allied spirit casts Teleport* to put Wind Lord in a strategic location with all of his powerful magic up and his foe's magic not up, and all with surprise. Bonus: the allied spirit still has an unknown vantage point from which to supply magical aid.

4. Wind Lord kills appropriate foe(s) and as overwhelming forces converge on Wind Lord, Wind Lord Teleports* back out to predetermined temple destination miles away.

5. Alynx quietly and calmly sneaks out of castle and makes his way cross country to meet up with master. Any wild cat can do this, so a cat with all it's natural instincts plus awakened intelligence and magic would be practically impossible to catch.

This particular Wind Lord has pulled that tactic off a couple of times. In the mix of that is frequently a handful of very powerful sylphs to really up the death-n-destruction.

* I can't remember which is Guided Teleport and which is Teleport, but with the pair this is easy to pull off.

I almost forgot, but the other Wind Lord/Storm Voice that is more of a magical/clerical type than a warrior, has done something similar, but it involved the allied spirit calling down multiple Thunderbolts on people rather than teleporting the character in. It's still nasty as that's pretty much an insta-kill type spell if used correctly with enough castings.

Waow (Kloster bows).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Atgxtg]

I'm taking a couple of geases to raise my Sense (Assassin) Sense (Ambush) skills after just reading that stunt. No wonder Humakt isn't close to Orlanth. That's nasty. :eek::eek:

I wonder if I can take a Sense (Alynx) skill? :confused:

I think Wind Lords are one reason why Harmonize went out the window in RQ3. :eek:

[Nightshade]

I think Wind Lords are one reason why Harmonize went out the window in RQ3. :eek:

Well, as a spirit spell it was just always overpowered; it was too easy to turn it into a death spell, not something you could say about Demoralize, Disruption or even Befuddle.

[Atgxtg]

Well, as a spirit spell it was just always overpowered; it was too easy to turn it into a death spell, not something you could say about Demoralize, Disruption or even Befuddle.

Yeah, it was a bit nasty. Maybe not as a Spirit Spell, but as a low cost spell. Still, a Wind Lord who jumps off a cliff is probably going to be better off that the poor schmuck he harmonized.

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¥

[Nightshade]

Yeah, it was a bit nasty. Maybe not as a Spirit Spell, but as a low cost spell. Still, a Wind Lord who jumps off a cliff is probably going to be better off that the poor schmuck he harmonized.

Frankly, just not being in melee yourself so you stood around in a "hit me!" pose for soemone else to nail the target was bad enough. If water or a dropoff was present, you didn't even need to go off it; just move in such a fashion that your target did.

[Atgxtg]

Frankly, just not being in melee yourself so you stood around in a "hit me!" pose for soemone else to nail the target was bad enough. If water or a dropoff was present, you didn't even need to go off it; just move in such a fashion that your target did.

Oh yeah. The ever popular knife in the back from the Harmonized dude was another goodie. Run the guy into trees, walls, nearby bodies of water.

Even if you were the worst fighter or spell caster in the group, if you know Harmonize and had a POW storing crystal, you could probably take any one foe out of the fight just by burning some POW.

Sometime I'm surprised we didn't see more "chain harmonize" situations. The spell was probably invaluable to the players guild. Think of how much easier it would make choreography!