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Thoughts on Malkionism & the Brithini


jajagappa

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From Jeff on FB:

A few Malkioni thoughts
In thinking about Malkionism, the Invisible God can be equated to Brahman in many schools of Hindu philosophy (especially Vedanta) - the Invisible God is the ultimate reality, the source from which the world came into existence, in whom it inheres, and to which it returns. Brahman ties in nicely with Aristotle's unmoved mover - perfectly beautiful, indivisible, and contemplating only self-contemplation, an independent divine eternal unchanging immaterial substance.
Just as Vedanta has many schools and traditions, so does Malkionism. Although all speak of an "Invisible God" as the ultimate reality, they are differ in their views and practices. Some view the lesser divine entities as emanations of the Invisible God, others view them as mere anthropomorphic embodiments of natural forces, and still others view them as self-deluded siblings of Zzabur who conflate themselves with the energies they have mastered.
Perhaps the most radical of "Malkioni" is that indigenous to God Forgot, whose god died in the God Time and did not return with the Dawn. They acknowledge the Invisible God, but do not worship the lesser entities, viewing them at best as self-deluded imposters and at worst as hostile. They do acknowledge Belintar as a lesser entity who upholds the Invisible God and offer prayers to the Invisible God on his behalf. In the Second Age, they enthusiastically embraced the Zistorite experiment of the Middle Sea Empire.
All of the Invisible God schools place humans at the center of their cosmos. Mortals do not exist to serve the gods; rather they have an independent existence within Time and capable of understanding the cosmos through will and intellect. All hold that ideal human society is rationally composed of classes (usually four), although how these classes are created differs from school to school.
Broadly speaking, most schools are "idealists" and assert that reality is created by the Mind of the Invisible God, which holds the cosmos together and that reason gives humans a connection to the cosmos. At its most extreme, Hrestoli idealism suggests that the world is completely subject to conceptual schemes of humans - this approach is commonly ascribed to the God Learners of the Second Age. However, the Rokari are "realists" that hold that although everything that exists is in principle humanly knowable, the Invisible God poses limits to the conceptual schemes of mortals. Correct knowledge and understanding is different (and far superior) to simple cognition and will.
As an aside, the Abiding Book of the Malkioni bears a greater resemblence to the Organon than to the New Testament.
 
JR> So it should be clear that for me the Malkioni are a vehicle for exploring logic and philosophy. They include Plato, Aristotle, Heraclitus, and Zeno, as well as the Upanishads, the Brahma Sutras and Gaudapada. And throw in a bit of Ezra into the mix, with plenty of efforts to take the teachings of several schools and edit them and revise them into something new.
 
JR> Also when thinking about Malkionism, remember that it changes over time. Before the Dawn, the Brithini dealt with the gods as near equals and the Seshnegi worshiped Malkion and Seshna Likita the Earth Goddess.
In the Third Age, the main Malkioni schools no longer interact with the gods as equals, but also do not worship gods other than Malkion and his family, and a few important heroes (although it is argued by some Rokari philosophers that in many cases this has been a back-door to submission to lesser entities). Despite a strong current of ancestor worship in Malkionism (which also sometimes includes worship of gods), the Malkioni distrust the gods in general.
 
JR> As an aside, many Malkioni protective and blessing spells have limitations placed on them that they cannot be used to aid people who violate the Laws.
 
JR> Malkionism (as opposed to Brithinism) really has its origins with Hrestol, who was born in a Brithini colony. To save his people, he killed the goddess Ifttala, the daughter of Seshna Likita and mother of the Pendali Lion People. Hrestol died, was judged in the Underworld, and made his way back to the world of the living. He was exiled from Seshnela by his own father, and rejected the ancient Laws of Brithos. He made his own way to Wisdom, one suited to men's souls and happiness. He sought Justice, not mere law, and self-sacrifice rather than obedience.
This divergence between Brithinism and Hrestolism occured over 1600 years ago, and Malkionism has developed radically differently from their Brithini origins.
 
JR> the Rokari are Hrestoli who reject Hrestol's idealism.
Q: any really non-Hrestoli?
JR> In the mortal realms? Just God Forgot I think. The Rokari are basically like Restorationists (Hussites, Anabaptists, Jehovah's WItnesses, Mormons, etc.), so folk who believe Hrestolism had gotten completely away from the truths revealed by Malkion.
 
JR> all of these analogies break down at some point. But Brahman is probably far more useful a point of comparison than the Judeo-Christian-Islamic Supreme God.
Especially since the Invisible God followers are perfectly willing to accept the existence of gods, their deeds, etc. They just don't worship them and consider them illusory/delusional.
 
 
Edited by jajagappa
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And along that line, another post by Jeff on Brithini cosmology.

JR> This is a Brithini cosmology, recited by Horali from Brithos in the Gbaji Wars and transcribed in the late First Age. Note the importance of Wisdom ("Right Use of Knowledge") and of Ignorance of the source of all evil.
THE CREATION
The invisible God is all things. He is beyond knowing or feeling or being. He contains all things and will contain them all in the future. He is beyond life or entropy.
Within the Invisible God is Existence, and within Existence were conceived the Laws. All things outside the Laws were excluded and cast down, and those things were of chaos and entropy.
The Laws created the World through the self application of Wisdom. The experience of Being is of movement through the accumulated Wisdom of the World. By understanding this, and being one with it, we are the Brithini.
The distribution of existence created a dissolution of Wisdom, and the natural application of divine introspection created Ignorance and beings which thrived upon it.
The spread of Ignorance created a gap in the Wisdom, and in that gap some beings willfully used Ignorance for their own ends, creating the two weapons of Ignorance: pain and injustice. From this was born Death, which changed all things.
One being went further, for although he knew of the Wisdom and walked in it willingly he used the Ignorance of others to manipulate it to hurt itself. This was the birth of Evil and Corruption, and it was made by Vadel.
In the spread of Evil and Corruption many beings turned upon themselves and each other, wallowing in the absence of Law and tearing the fabric of Life. They summoned beings to help them. This was the entry of Chaos into the world.
The natural conflict between Law and Chaos is inevitable, for each is forever rejecting and incapable of understanding the other. The organic contest within the created world brought forth a need for the living beings to understand the Laws to balance the forces of chaos which threatened it.
Malkion the Prophet was the one who could teach others of the Law and the Wisdom. He took the myriad patterns of Existence and showed each person how to consciously find and to be his part within it. While the rest of the world ate itself alive all the beings and parts which he blessed continued in their divine perfection. In this way the seeds of truth were preserved during the terrible Ice Ages.
Zzabur the Sorcerer was the greatest of the keepers of wisdom. He could see the worlds and sort out their layers, keeping all in mind and out of mind at once.
He saw what was and what could be, and he manipulated the subtle Laws to bring back the Wisdom. Thanks to his spells the old world was reborn again. He understood the mechanics of the cosmos and brought back the Sun, which had fallen from the sky.
 
JR> Of the Seven Basic Denials held by all Brithini, first of course is, "There is one God, the Maker of the Laws; we worship no other." But another prohibits Unauthorized Sex, and another is: "The Talar is Law. Remember that, obey his commands, do what he says and you will not do wrong. Disobey the talars and your immortal life is in jeopardy."
 
JR> The Brithini often call mortal men "Mud Men" or "Dirt People" or even "simulcra". Most Brithini consider non-Malkioni to be artificial life forms created by deluded sorcerers who have sold their souls to evil spirits. These "simulcra" usually have the appearance of normal dromal, except for their actions, of course. Any dromal carrying any weapon, for instance, is always a simulcra.
 
JR> One of many reasons why people in the First Age feared the Brithini:
"The mud men are inferior creatures without soul or concepts of true nature. They threaten the existence of our immortality, and thus must be destroyed. Once destroyed they can return to material matter and immaterial energy; raw materials for the Invisible God. The parts can be recreated and, if blessed to be within the realm of the Brithini, immortal."
 
JR> However, it is important to realize that there is over a thousand years of distance between the Brithini and any living Malkioni. The Brithini are like Moorcock's Vadhagh, not even noticing what the Mabden are up to. And the Malkioni wildly misinterpret and reinterpret what the Brithini are and believe.
 
JR> If I recall, the last Birthing of the Brithini prior to 1620 was in 375. Which means that with the exception of the cadre of Brithini children, all who are less than ten years old, the next youngest Brithini are some 1250 years old. They likely have far less understanding of mortals that the Brithini of the First Age.
 
JR> So imagine the world from the point of a long-lived Brithini. You know all that you should know. You have perfected your art, whether that is crafting and farming, sword fighting, spell casting, or the art of rule. You've done this for more than 1200 years. You know friendship, sadness, love, and doubt - you are not emotionless! But more than 60 generations of simulacra have come and gone. They build cities and kingdoms, only to tear them down in war and conflict. They gain knowledge only to lose it. Perhaps they might sometimes be amusing, but by now you have lost interest and few care even to keep track of them.
 
JR>And the Brithini classify heresies far differently from the Malkioni. Examples of dangerous heresies are:
  • Denialist (using logical techniques to deny that one has not acted in accordance with Wisdom)
  • Deist (worshiping or communicating with gods other than the Invisible God)
  • Sexual activist (having Unauthorized Sex)
  • Disobeyer (disobeying a talar or justifying disobeying a talar)
  • Meddler (doing something outside of your class, so a soldier trying to figure numbers, or a talar learning sorcery).
All of these can cause death through aging.
 
JR> I actually do not believe the Vadeli commit any of those heresies. Not a one.... I don't think the Brithini believe the Vadeli are heretics. I think they believe them to be the source of all evil and corruption in the universe and that they are willingly, knowingly, and intentionally evil.
 
JR> One last thing (at least for the moment) - remember that Arkat was Brithini, born in 375 and raised among (or at least in friendship with) the aldryami of Brithos. So much so that one Brithini document refers to him as Arkat of the Elves. Arkat was best of the Sunstop Generation, trained by those who fought against the Vadeli before the Dawn, but was still considered a child by the Brithini.
 
 
 
 
 
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  • jajagappa changed the title to Thoughts on Malkionism & the Brithini

Some minor thoughts: There are no Yellow Vadeli, so no talars, so any sexual activity by Vadeli would be Sexual Activism. So Vadeli procreation must occur without sexual activity, since they follow the Law.

If Vadeli magic is sorcery, (which it might well not be), then the formal proscription against sorcery may be limited to talars (or talars and horals) and the limit on dromals learning sorcery is a practical one based on limited literacy and the need to grow food for eating. And of course, because Vadeli do not practice the sophistry of denialism, they must freely admit to their actions against Wisdom.

Really a very neat way to make them outre to ordinary Gloranthans and disgusting to learned Malkioni and Brithini.

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25 minutes ago, Eff said:

There are no Yellow Vadeli, so no talars, so any sexual activity by Vadeli would be Sexual Activism. So Vadeli procreation must occur without sexual activity, since they follow the Law.

Or, there is no one (i.e. no talars) to tell them whether it is authorized or not. 

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2 hours ago, Eff said:

Some minor thoughts: There are no Yellow Vadeli, so no talars, so any sexual activity by Vadeli would be Sexual Activism.

The Brithini breed when commanded to do so so by their 'yellow' caste; the Vadeli 'yellow' caste has been extinct, hopefully, since the Gods War, so the Vadeli happily break caste laws and breed anyway.

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1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

The Brithini breed when commanded to do so so by their 'yellow' caste; the Vadeli 'yellow' caste has been extinct, hopefully, since the Gods War, so the Vadeli happily break caste laws and breed anyway.

Or... they were commanded to breed by the yellow caste who then went extinct before countermanding the order.  Therefore, the order in place is to breed.

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Some things I think are probably true about the Vadeli:

  • in the modern era they sneak around many rules regarding the need for a Talar to make certain decisions by invoking the authority of a ships captain, laws possibly that originally were intended to apply to Waertagi (and are mentioned in the Abiding Book as such). This is why the only great leaders of the Vadeli we hear about in the modern day are Admirals. 
  • they have worked out that they can cast sorcery as Brown or Red caste, (possibly it’s not actually magically prohibited for the Brithini either, they just can’t see why you would try). But they can’t cast just any sorcery, they have to stick to certain restrictions on the spells that are caste appropriate. So Brown Vadeli can use some spells for manipulating base matter as essentially crafting magic (so that’s why your own clothing is strangling you, or their building is now crushing you), dealing with animals of all kinds (their enthusiasm for controlling creatures like blood birds as a warfare tactic), and various spells of deception (merchants are drones caste?). This may also mean some enchanting items as crafting magic. Sadly for the rest of us, this means that the Red Vadeli focus on sorcery directly for combat purposes, hurting others, and drawing blood, so they are restricted mostly to using the magic you least want them to have. 
  • so a lot of the worst and most notorious Vadeli magic, like mass undead production, could be Blue Vadeli only? So when they return, it will get bad very quickly.
  • They also have access to some magic from their Viymorni heritage, to do with exploring. This is the Telendarian school magic, and the Vadeli connection is a large part of why exploring magic is banned by most Malkioni. Though they also managed to sneak stuff like Tap POW in there. And whether it comes from this, or via the marine loophole, they have a lot of useful ship and water magic. 
  • Vadeli love magic items, because they can be used without violating the laws. So so many of the Brown Vadeli like trading in magic items. If there is a sort of magic they are forbidden to cast, they can use a pagan magic item.
  •  The laws don’t state it has to be a Vadeli talar. This is why they made Hrestol a judge, so he could make certain decisions for them. But of course they don’t like giving a mortal power over them normally. So sometimes they will indulge in weird plots designed to force others to give them permission to do what they want. 
  • None of this changes that they are totally immortal genius sociopaths who think of most mortals as nothing but to exploit. But sometimes they are playing a game for goals you don’t understand with rules you don’t understand. 
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I think the idea that the Vadeli possibly asked Hrestol for permission to have sex hilarious.  
I also think there is an Admiralty law/ Sovereign citizen joke on there somewhere. 

Edited by davecake
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8 minutes ago, davecake said:

Some things I think are probably true about the Vadeli:

  • so a lot of the worst and most notorious Vadeli magic, like mass undead production, could be Blue Vadeli only? So when they return, it will get bad very quickly.

One sorcery that the lack of blue Vadeli might prevent is the Tapping of Land and Sea like both the Vadeli and the Brithini did in the Storm Age and Darkness. There is a notable absence of anything like that in the Vadeli Isles, Jrustela and northern Pamaltela.

 

8 minutes ago, davecake said:
  • They also have access to some magic from their Viymorni heritage, to do with exploring. This is the Telendarian school magic, and the Vadeli connection is a large part of why exploring magic is banned by most Malkioni. Though they also managed to sneak stuff like Tap POW in there. And whether it comes from this, or via the marine loophole, they have a lot of useful ship and water magic. 

Maybe their continued identification as one of the original tribes is what allows them to use more ancestral magic than the Brithini?

 

8 minutes ago, davecake said:
  • Vadeli love magic items, because they can be used without violating the laws. So so many of the Brown Vadeli like trading in magic items. If there is a sort of magic they are forbidden to cast, they can use a pagan magic item.

or command an enslaved practitioner of pagan magic to cast it for them? If they managed to place themselves as owners in Fonritian society, they have access to huge masses of worshipers of pagan deities.

 

8 minutes ago, davecake said:
  •  The laws don’t state it has to be a Vadeli talar. This is why they made Hrestol a judge, so he could make certain decisions for them. But of course they don’t like giving a mortal power over them normally. So sometimes they will indulge in weird plots designed to force others to give them permission to do what they want. 

Or they just act as merchants of destruction, like they did with the Seshnegi kings who destroyed (most of) Hrelar Amali in the First Age.

I had the impression that the job as a Vadeli judge / overseer was a result of Zzabur's victory with the Breaking of the World, a kind of Corflu job for talars in bad graces. Hrestol volunteering to do it might have been seen as a deserved penance by the Brithini?

 

8 minutes ago, davecake said:
  • None of this changes that they are totally immortal genius sociopaths who think of most mortals as nothing but to exploit. But sometimes they are playing a game for goals you don’t understand with rules you don’t understand. 

I don't think that they are discriminating against mortals - they are just as happy to exploit orthodox Brithini, and if they think they can get away with it, Luatha or Mostali (and alliances be damned).

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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8 minutes ago, Joerg said:

I don't think that they are discriminating against mortals - they are just as happy to exploit orthodox Brithini, and if they think they can get away with it, Luatha or Mostali (and alliances be damned).

No, it’s just easier with mortals, because the mortals have no idea what is really going on and don’t really understand Logic. They’ve totally tried to exploit all of them, especially the Mostali. 

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I'm tempted to believe that the Brithini Laws are entirely arbitrary, and the only thing that matters is that they are internally consistent. The Brithini mistakenly believe that they are universal (and why wouldn't they), but the Vadeli know that they aren't, and so apply a different set of laws (equally internally consistent) to the same effects. 

(As do the Mostali, of course. Speaking of which, none of this makes the parallels between Danmalastani-Malkion-Invisible God and Mostali-Mostal-World Machine any less interesting.)

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On 6/26/2021 at 11:59 PM, jajagappa said:

From Jeff on FB:

A few Malkioni thoughts

In thinking about Malkionism, the Invisible God can be equated to Brahman in many schools of Hindu philosophy (especially Vedanta) - the Invisible God is the ultimate reality, the source from which the world came into existence, in whom it inheres, and to which it returns.

While I enjoy the Hindu philosophy behind the godhead of Brahma, I am surprised that the Invisible God is not more Zoroastrian in its inspiration, given that the Zoroastrian priests are our cultural model for Wizards, and the original source for the theory of the Elements which has been attributed (falsely) to Aristotle.  Historically, Zoroastrianism and Hinduism weren't friendly, to the point where the term "Asura" in Hinduism  (derived from Ahura (Mazda)) means Hell deity, and are seen as benign in Zoroastrianism and hostile in Hinduism.

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1 hour ago, John Biles said:

Why do the Vadeli not have any Talars?

 

 

I don't think there's a definite answer. Perhaps the Viymorni talars were killed when the Vadeli emerged, for the same reason you might do so to nobles and officers and executive vice presidents. Perhaps talars were created to suppress the possibility of more Vadeli or keep the Vadeli in limits. Perhaps the talar caste requires a commitment to the spirit of the Laws to sustain itself and Vadeli talars can't make use of their magic.

Perhaps the Vadeli talars once existed but were destroyed or concealed even more thoroughly than the Vadeli zzaburi. 

Perhaps the Vadeli talars were hidden in plain sight. Who do we know who's associated with the color yellow and is an enemy of Malkioni and especially Brithini? 

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2 hours ago, Eff said:

Perhaps the Vadeli talars once existed but were destroyed or concealed even more thoroughly than the Vadeli zzaburi. 

Perhaps the Vadeli talars were hidden in plain sight. Who do we know who's associated with the color yellow and is an enemy of Malkioni and especially Brithini? 

Perhaps there was only one Vadeli talar, and his name was Vadel!  (For all we know he may have been a very jealous leader.)

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7 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I'm tempted to believe that the Brithini Laws are entirely arbitrary, and the only thing that matters is that they are internally consistent. The Brithini mistakenly believe that they are universal (and why wouldn't they), but the Vadeli know that they aren't, and so apply a different set of laws (equally internally consistent) to the same effects. 

I think the laws are intrinsic to the process by the people of Danmalastan were created in the Fourth Action, and are not easily changed now. The Vadeli can’t quite escape them now. 
But the Brithini approach them with the attitude that following the laws as much as possible, and trying to follow them in spirit where they do not specify, is the right attitude. They try to be what they consider as much as possible close to the original first people, and try to return to and emulate the idealised past of Danmalastan (which some few of them remember) as much as possible.
The Vadeli follow the laws to the letter (because they like being immortal), but push to their limits. They are in a new world, full of other beings, not in Danmalastan, and the laws do not guide them. Even in Danmalastan (which some very few of them may remember), they were the ones who yearned to explore outside of it. 
That, and the Vadeli are sociopaths, and the Brithini are just arch- conservatives, but still have some sense of altruism, if usually only for other Brithini. 
 

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2 hours ago, davecake said:

I think the laws are intrinsic to the process by the people of Danmalastan were created in the Fourth Action, and are not easily changed now. The Vadeli can’t quite escape them now. 

That opens the interesting question how the people of Danmalastan were created. Was that a process similar to the intellectual conception of Dayzatar, Arraz/Yelm and Lodril? Were there fertility goddesses of land, sea, or pure fertility involved? Were the initial Maseren budded off the Paseren?

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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Another tidbit from Jeff on FB:

A BRITHINI STORY
In the Gods Age all was perfect. and nothing in the world ever died. All beings were gods. Law . oversaw all. Prosperity reigned in the Kingdom of Logic.
Logic demands that all beginnings have an end. What was started must be finished. From the moment of the first mathematical evolution of 1 into 2 the end was destined to come. The division of one into 2 made the Creator and Destroyer. A choice was given, and we chose the 1.
If alI the world has chosen 1 we would exist in harmony still.
2 is the Destroyer, who can make 3 out of 2. 4 out of 3, and five out of 4. Now is 1647, and we hope that tomorrow is 1646. The Destroyer seduced half of 1, and brought it to imperfection.
The Destroyer inhabited half of 1, and brought it to death.
Malkion took our race in his hand, for we alone were loyal to the 1. When Malkion was born again he taught his secrets to us, and we are the Chosen People. When all else devolved into more, we maintained our contact with the 1. We are the chosen of the Invisible God. We are good, all else is defiled.
2 is the Destroyer. All that is touched by his power is dead or dying, and will eventually die and be gone. That will leave the 1 again.
Just as Malkion incarnated the Law of the Universe, so did the Devil, ancient Evil, become the incarate Destroyer. The Devil works hard to bring corruption to all, and has seduced most of the world away from the 1. All the barbarians and heretics are under the sway of the Devil. Only Malkion kept us close to the Law.
Here is how: When Zzabur asked his father "How do we stay immortal?" the Prophet answered simply. He said. "Do not change. Do what you have done. Act within the Laws and Ways you have been given, for they are immortal. Your actions embody the 1, your bodies enact the 1.
Anything new from this moment forward is Death."
Thus we were never severed from Life, like the rest; from Magic, like the rest; from Divinity, like the rest; from Good, like the rest; from ourselves. like the rest. We are not living people, or divine people, or good people, or our own people -- we are. All else is a pale shadow of us.
When we die, the world dies. We are the last holders of the 1. When were are gone, all else wilI go too. When we are gone, everything left is corruption and death.
 
 
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Some more on Malkionism by Jeff on FB:

There are a bit more than 8 million Malkioni in Glorantha, most being in Seshnela or western Fronela.
Malkionism is, if anything, even trickier than the Lunar Way to define. All Malkioni are human and believe the cosmos exists to be understood and exploited by humankind. They worship the Invisible God and divide themselves into classes so each mortal can contribute to society.
Beyond that though, the religion is divided into numerous factions or sects, each declaring the rest to be heresies from the true way. A unified Malkionism has not existed since the time of Malkion himself.
That being said, this is a fairly mainstream Malkioni perspective:
WHO ARE THE OTHER GODS?
The gods are great and powerful entities who manifest one or more of the Runes. They are dangerous, for they wish mankind to serve them instead of being forced to serve men like us. Each god is limited in knowledge, and therefore, has weak, vulnerable places. Priests and priestesses are the leading slaves of the various gods. Worshipers are the pawns of the gods and the lackeys of the priesthood.
During the period of time now referred to as the Great Darkness, people were lost and frightened. In an effort to understand their world they imagined gods in their own image. By personifying their social desires, the forces of nature, or their emotional needs, they withstood the turmoil of the Darkness.
These gods are always carefully represented as benevolent forces, but each possesses a dark side which is revealed only when it is too late. The catastrophe of Gbaji’s creation is the penultimate example of this god-making folly.
We are free of the self-imposed limitations induced by the personification of natural forces. We try to understand nature as it is. All other gods are, at best, lesser beings subject to the laws of nature and to worship any of them is folly and ignorance.
 
> Although the Malkioni do not subjugate themselves to the gods, there are numerous mortals whose deeds revealed certain truths about the Invisible God, allowing them to intercede in the world to ensure the well-being of those who venerate them. Of these, Arkat, Hrestol, and Malkion are the most important. We Malkioni belong to many different castes and sects, but all of us recognize the divinity of these heroes, no matter what sect they belonged to. It is notable that the Brithini, who profess no contact with the Invisible God, have produced no such heroes.
> For those wanting a "scientific explanation" for Glorantha, go to the West. For example, I asked a zzaburi where the world came from, and this is what he said:
The Invisible God, the primordial being of pure immaterial energy, created the world through Thought and set its immutable Laws – the Runes. The world is the result of interactions between Rune powers. The original Runes devolved, multiplied, and combined with other Runes, creating the natural world whose mixed matter and energy follow the impersonal Laws of the Invisible God. Many forces of nature exist, working in extremely complex patterns. These energies have always existed and always will exist, as we can demonstrate through methodical experimentation.
> I later asked the zzaburi what happens after we die. Here is what he told me:
WHAT HAPPENS AFTER WE DIE?
After we die, we separate back into matter and energy. However, only the weak-willed among us face oblivion. Those enlightened ones, who learn to understand and master their place in the world, will be able to maintain their individual identity indefinitely.
> The Blessing and Banishment funeral prayer of the cult is basically the same everywhere. The ceremony separates the dead from the world of the living and prevents the spirit from bothering the living. The funeral rites vary according to the caste of the deceased; however, the Malkioni revere their dead ancestors, regardless of caste. The dead are buried in a grave or crypt; those with high enough status have mounds or tombs erected over the grave.
> the Arkat Kingtroll cult worships Arkat but are not philosophically Malkioni by any stretch. They view Arkat as a troll who stole the secrets of sorcery for the trolls. They revere Arkat as the greatest troll to born born in Time.
 
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On 6/29/2021 at 11:23 PM, Joerg said:

That opens the interesting question how the people of Danmalastan were created. Was that a process similar to the intellectual conception of Dayzatar, Arraz/Yelm and Lodril? Were there fertility goddesses of land, sea, or pure fertility involved? Were the initial Maseren budded off the Paseren?

The Malkioni would not want to believe goddesses were involved.

The Man Rune, at the Creator's command, made the first people.  Some sects probably assume that the Krjalki were flawed attempts to create men and then humans capstoned creation; others see the Krjalki as the jealous attempt of other runes to create their own humans, who came out warped and twisted.

 

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On 6/30/2021 at 3:51 AM, Sir_Godspeed said:

I'm tempted to believe that the Brithini Laws are entirely arbitrary, and the only thing that matters is that they are internally consistent. The Brithini mistakenly believe that they are universal (and why wouldn't they), but the Vadeli know that they aren't, and so apply a different set of laws (equally internally consistent) to the same effects. 

I think Vadeli behaviour is something of a mirror to the Brithini. The Brithini live forever by being morally decorous and pure, by their own incredibly high standards. The proof it works is their immortality. They would never show their frustration, but it must gall the heck out of them that the Vadeli get to do all the forbidden fun stuff - positively revel in it, in fact, rubbing their abominable immorality in the Brithinis' faces - yet somehow get to live forever too...

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  • 3 months later...
On 7/4/2021 at 1:37 AM, MOB said:

I think Vadeli behaviour is something of a mirror to the Brithini. The Brithini live forever by being morally decorous and pure, by their own incredibly high standards. The proof it works is their immortality. They would never show their frustration, but it must gall the heck out of them that the Vadeli get to do all the forbidden fun stuff - positively revel in it, in fact, rubbing their abominable immorality in the Brithinis' faces - yet somehow get to live forever too...

Vadel realized that the Zeroth Law is that those who do not follow the Law shall age and die. Systematically breaking the rest of the Laws gives them the juice to break Law Zero.

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