Desert Hospitality

[Darius West]

I suspect that Praxian attitudes towards hospitality are quite different to those of Arabia and Mongolia, which are very forgiving.  I suspect their hospitality customs are also less formalized than those of the Heortlands.

Praxians are a seriously violent raider culture, where small groups of strangers represent a special threat, as if they are Praxians they will make off with a portion of your herd if they can.  In Cults of Prax we see that Biturian Varosh effectively has to bribe local Khans with gifts in order to receive their protection while in their territory.  The tribes probably have times when they are allied and will relax a bit in the presence of their allies, but most Praxian alliances tend to be brittle, based on their history of frequent betrayals.  If meeting non-Praxians, there is probably some impetus to be seen to "gain honor" by offering them hospitality, if only because the outsiders are understood to be vulnerable in Prax and not seen as much of a threat.  It is possible that such travelers also provide advantages such as news of the wider world, trade opportunities, or unique cult skills they might be hired to provide.  Of course it is also perfectly reasonable to take these people as slaves before they come seeking hospitality.  Praxians are likely to gear their hospitality to the reputation of the people they will host, in a very pragmatic fashion.  The good news is that even slaves will be given water and shelter from the dust of the Bull Wind.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Darius West

[MOB]

4 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Praxians are a seriously violent raider culture, where small groups of strangers represent a special threat, as if they are Praxians they will make off with a portion of your herd if they can.  In Cults of Prax we see that Biturian Varosh effectively has to bribe local Khans with gifts in order to receive their protection while in their territory.  The tribes probably have times when they are allied and will relax a bit in the presence of their allies, but most Praxian alliances tend to be brittle, based on their history of frequent betrayals. 

That's pretty much how it works among the Bedu.

Some other cool Thesiger quotes from Arabian Sands, it's such a great book:

"It is characteristic of Bedu to do things by extremes, to be either wildly generous or unbelievably mean, very patient or almost hysterically excitable, to be incredibly brave or to panic for no apparent reason.  Ascetic by nature, they derive satisfaction from the bare simplicity of their lives and scorn the amenities which others would judge essential."

"This incident impressed upon me the Bedu’s indifference to human life.  The man was sick and if God ordered it he would die.  He was a stranger who came from a tribe unrelated to theirs.  None of them felt an interest because he was a human being like themselves.  His death would in no way affect them.  Yet their code demanded that, however unwanted he might be, they should fight in his defence if he were attacked whilst with them."

"There is always trouble if meat is not divided by lot.  Someone immediately says that he has been given more than his share, and tries to hand a piece to someone else.  Then there is much arguing and swearing by God, with everyone insisting that he has been given too much, and finally a deadlock ensues which can only be settled by casting lots for the meat – as should have been done in the first place.  I have never heard a man grumble that he has received less than his share.  Such behaviour would be inconceivable to the Bedu, for they are careful never to appear greedy, and quick to notice anyone who is.“

"It is not hunger nor thirst that frightens the Bedu; they maintain that riding they can survive in cold weather for seven days without food or water.  It is the possible collapse of their camels which haunts them. If this happens, death is certain."

"Strike a Bedu and he will kill you either then or later.  It is easy for strangers to give offence without meaning to do so.  I once put my hand on the back of bin Kabina’s neck and he turned on me and asked furiously if I took him for a slave.  I had no idea that I had done anything wrong."

[Darius West]

2 hours ago, MOB said:

That's pretty much how it works among the Bedu.

I have to disagree MOB.  Based on what the overwhelming anthropological studies on Bedouin hospitality suggests, travelers were generally treated to hospitality in the Classical Era model, including 3 days of protection (hence the 71 hour Ahmed joke by Pratchet courtesy of Akhorahil).  The Bedu were not overly keen on using water as a weapon, even against members of enemy tribes passing through their territory on apparently peaceful purposes, and reserved withdrawing water only in times of warfare.

Obviously if someone broke that hospitality code they were fair game for terrible retribution.  This is not to suggest that there weren't some ways you could break hospitality that seem pretty arcane to outsiders.  There was also the understanding of the reciprocal arrangement that a good guest would throw in their arms to defend their host, even if the guest's own tribe was attacking the host as well, but one wonders how often such things occurred irl.  In truth they would most likely be rounded up as spies and then used as hostages, unless they made a ridiculously favorable impression on their hosts; let's face facts.

2 hours ago, MOB said:

"It is characteristic of Bedu to do things by extremes, to be either wildly generous or unbelievably mean, very patient or almost hysterically excitable, to be incredibly brave or to panic for no apparent reason.  Ascetic by nature, they derive satisfaction from the bare simplicity of their lives and scorn the amenities which others would judge essential."

It is seldom if ever that case that people do things for no reason.  This is especially true of people who live in extreme environments where miscalculating one's logistics or the turn of local politics can lead to death.  Just because the reasons for a people's actions are not apparent to the author, doesn't mean that they were acting without reason, but more likely that the author, as an outsider, had failed to understand the emerging situation.  Comments like this one from Thesiger are amusingly patronizing, but likely actually belie an ignorance on the author's part.

-----

I would suggest that the Bedu are certainly not above the military pragmatism of using water as a weapon, as the victories of Khalid ibn al-Walid against the Sassanids amply demonstrates, but that they are disinclined to do so (for reasons laid down in religious tradition). By comparison, I think the Praxians are a lot more aggressive and pragmatic that the Bedu.  I think the Praxians actively use control of oases, rivers, and hidden wells as a means of limiting the range and activities of enemy tribes, and perpetually use water as a weapon, literally every day of their lives, often calculating their entire clan and tribal survival strategies around such control.  I doubt the Praxians have hard rules about 3 days of hospitality, but may well extend hospitality to a guest well in excess of any limit if there is a good reason to do so, or leaders may cut hospitality abruptly, giving the former guest a certain head start if they are honorable, or simply binding them as slaves if they are not honorable.  While impala riders of Prax are described as angry and excitable imsmc, other tribes are not.

[MOB]

On 7/25/2021 at 4:05 AM, Darius West said:

I have to disagree MOB.  Based on what the overwhelming anthropological studies on Bedouin hospitality suggests, travelers were generally treated to hospitality in the Classical Era model, including 3 days of protection (hence the 71 hour Ahmed joke by Pratchet courtesy of Akhorahil).  The Bedu were not overly keen on using water as a weapon, even against members of enemy tribes passing through their territory on apparently peaceful purposes, and reserved withdrawing water only in times of warfare.

Sorry, I'm going to go by what Thesiger says.

(I also have my own experience of living in the Middle East for a decade among the descendants - in many cases, the children - of the people he wrote about. The veneer of technology etc is not very deep.)

Edited July 25, 2021 by MOB

[soltakss]

On 7/18/2021 at 8:15 PM, Bill the barbarian said:

Any thoughts or insights about desert (or oasis, or even savannah) hospitality in Prax, out there in the hive mind?

For me, the people of the Wastelands practise a brutal form of hospitality. they will offer food and drink to anyone who asks for it, for they do not know when they will themselves require food or drink. They will not imprison, enslave or kill guests, unless the guests attack them first. 

However, they will happily let the guests go and them chase them down afterwards, depending on the circumstances.

Agimori, however, never take slaves, so would only hunt to punish those who break their hospitality.

Oasis Folk will offer food to all who come to their Oasis. However, their food tends to be variations on a theme. If you don't like dates, for example, then you will be disappointed on a date Oasis, as they will offer you a variety of dates, stuffed dates, roasted dates, date wine and date surprise (Yes, it's a date).

On 7/24/2021 at 1:34 PM, MOB said:

“Gaunt men in rags and hungry-looking children had greeted me, and bade me welcome with the sonorous phrases of the desert. Later they had set a great dish before me, rice heaped round a sheep which they had slaughtered, over which my host poured liquid golden butter until it flowed down on to the sand; and when I protested, saying 'Enough! Enough!', had answered that I was a hundred times welcome. Their lavish hospitality had always made me uncomfortable, for I had known that as a result of it they would go hungry for days. Yet when I left them they had almost convinced me that I had done them a kindness by staying with them”

When I worked on an archaeological dig, the chap in charge told a story of hiking around Greece when he was 18, looking at the various sites. He often had no money and relied on the hospitality of the locals. Once he met an old couple who gave him a bed to sleep in and a meal, basically a plate of mutton stew and lentils, he finished it and they put another plate in front of him, which he could barely finish, then they out another plate in front of him. Panicking slightly, he realised that they would not stop until he was full, so he ate some, thanked them and then said he could eat no more. Apparently they looked so relieved, for they must have thought that he would eat all their food.

 

[Shiningbrow]

7 hours ago, soltakss said:

Oasis Folk will offer food to all who come to their Oasis. However, their food tends to be variations on a theme. If you don't like dates, for example, then you will be disappointed on a date Oasis, as they will offer you a variety of dates, stuffed dates, roasted dates, date wine and date surprise (Yes, it's a date).

So, it's a good place to go for a date?

 

 

(Is that pun too dated now?)

[MOB]

12 hours ago, soltakss said:

Oasis Folk will offer food to all who come to their Oasis. However, their food tends to be variations on a theme. If you don't like dates, for example, then you will be disappointed on a date Oasis, as they will offer you a variety of dates, stuffed dates, roasted dates, date wine and date surprise (Yes, it's a date).

Because dates were a staple for the Bedu and are very sweet, they didn't crave sweet things. They craved fat. Where we might give a child some candy as a treat, in those days on the Trucial Coast a treat would be giving a child a great big gobbet of fat to chew on.

Even today at banquets there is a special dish served called Harees which is fatty meat and wheat boiled together for hours to make a thick sort of fatty paste. Served with ghee, it's definitely designed to satisfy your need for fat, and fill you up. Every time I went to the Sheikh's majlis it would be served towards the end of the meal, specifically to make sure everyone had properly eaten their fill. Served by hand - no utensils (once, at his summer palace, I was served by the Sheikh himself which was a bigger deal than I released at the time).

https://abudhabiculture.ae/en/discover/food/harees

Edited July 26, 2021 by MOB

[Bill the barbarian]

Very cool, thanks MOB.

[icebrand]

If by hospitable you mean "steal all your your stuff" then yeah, praxians are super into that!

[Bill the barbarian]

<ahem>I believe that is known as hard bargaining!

 

[icebrand]

23 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

<ahem>I believe that is known as hard bargaining!

 

Found the barbarian!

...

...

 

And now I feel stupid it was in your name all along 🤣

[Bill the barbarian]

21 minutes ago, icebrand said:

Found the barbarian!

 

No one told me we were playing the praxian equivalent of Where’s Waldo...

How inhospitable!

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Bill the barbarian

[MOB]

On 7/26/2021 at 1:24 AM, MOB said:

(I also have my own experience of living in the Middle East for a decade among the descendants - in many cases, the children - of the people he wrote about. The veneer of technology etc is not very deep.)

BTW, this was view from the place I lived in Abu Dhabi

[Darius West]

Ritual Portions of the Peaceful Cut

“If you do not like your allotted portion, be braver and win more acclaim.”

 While it is well understood that the Peaceful Cut allows an adherent of Waha the Butcher to painlessly kill an animal and then strip down the carcass in an extremely efficient manner so nothing goes to waste, there is more to the process, and there are extra levels of ritualized consumption that follow in formal clan and tribal settings.  When the Chief calls a feast, he himself performs the ritual butchery before the tribe, and then uses the occasion to establish the hierarchy within the clan or tribe.  This is frequently performed when an important visitor arrives and hospitality needs to be demonstrated, but it serves as a concrete display to all the members of the tribe where they presently sit within the structure of the clan as handed down by the eye of the Chief.  This of course involves a level of unstated politics, with the demoted often being resentful, and the promoted often becoming both grateful of the recognition but potentially more ambitious too.  Generally a single large animal is capable of feeding an entire clan for a day, however on some feast days more than one animal will need to be slaughtered if he gathering is large or the clan is prospering.  On feast days and occasions when a single beast is slaughtered, and especially on days when the clan must slaughter an animal of their own tribe, there is a ritual apportionment of the kill to tribe members according to their status.  On the occasion of a substantial military victory over another tribe, it is typical that one of the defeated enemy's animals will be butchered and eaten to mark the victory, but woe betide the Chief who performs such a feast before the enemy has truly been defeated and driven off, as the enemy shamans may strike from the carcass of the slaughtered beast if they have enough of Waha's favor remaining, thus such a feast is in itself a test of the Chief's leadership and judgement (and perhaps best attempted only after a divination to discover Waha's opinion).  It is important to note that this is not an everyday occurrence, and each family within the clan will slaughter their own animals every couple of weeks, then set about preserving the meat and retrieving the bone, sinew, and hide for crafting purposes without more than the basic peaceful cut ritual being employed.  The tail is always presented to the Eiritha cult for ritual disposal, though if none are available, every Praxian knows the prayer for disposing of a tail in the fire and sending the animal spirit back to Eiritha, as it is taught to lay members.

1^st Cut. The Tail- This is an all-important part of the Peaceful Cut and is conducted as soon after the slaughter as can be managed practically.  The tail is carefully ritually dismembered with prayers to Eiritha while facing in the direction of the Paps Oasis.  This directs the spirit of the beast to return to Eiritha for rebirth, and is essential so that a ball of tails cannot be constructed.  Even wild Prax beasts found dead will be swiftly afforded the cut of the tail to allow their return to Eiritha.  It is considered a sacred duty and the core of the entire ritual.

Requirement:  Nobody eats the tail.  Tail meat is not considered an offcut, but an offering of thanks to Eiritha and the ritual sending of the spirit of the beast back to her womb for rebirth with the thanks of the tribe and clan.  The tail is ritually burned to ash by the present ranking Eiritha priestess.  To steal a tail is the hugely taboo act of an enemy and is a killing offense.

2^nd Cut.  Eyeballs-These are provided to the clan’s most successful scouts or archers of the day.  They are generally spiced and boiled first.  They are of course entitled to other portions too.  After the Gods, comes the scouts.

Requirement: Clan members with Reputation 5%-20%, and a scouting coup.

3^rd Cut. Head Meats- Cheek, neck, and so forth are reserved first for visitors as their portion, and a sign of hospitality.  If there are no visitors, then they are provided to clan members of foreign cults, who act as de facto foreigners regardless of whether they are from outside the clan or not.

Requirement: Foreigners with reputation of 20%+

4^th Cut. Tongue-The tongue of the beast is a large and tender muscle and much sought after.  Junior priestesses and any priests of cults other than the primary pantheon of Waha, Eiritha, and Stormbull may be given a portion of the tongue to boil.

Requirement: Junior Rune level clan members (Shaman, Acolyte, and Priest-level) with Reputation under 50%.

5^th Cut. Brain-The brain of the beast is always reserved for the tanners of the clan, as in times past it was normal for tanners to use the brain to tan the skins, and by magic, there was always enough brain to tan the entire hide of the beast.  The brain is also often fried in tallow and some favor it.

Requirement:  Any clan member with Craft (Tanning) at 50%+.

6^th Cut. Plate-The plate cut comes from the lower middle of the beast, and is generally reserved first for initiates of Stormbull, but is generally available to Eiritha Initiates and other Earth and Life cultists.

Requirement:  Clan members who are initiates of Stormbull, Chalana Arroy, Eiritha or other Earth/Life cults, with a Reputation of 25%+

7^th Cut.  Heart-The heart is a large muscle, and often quite tough, but full of nutrition.  It is the cut reserved for the Khan.  This is often more than the Khan can eat however, and he will often share the heart with those he favors.  It is also not unknown for the wives of the Khan to quietly barter portions of other cuts in return for a piece of heart on their husband’s behalf.

Requirement:  This cut is reserved for the Chieftain of the clan.

8^th Cut. Lungs/Tripe- Tripe for the toothless.  Soft and rubbery, tripe is often ground or minced fine and given to the tribe members who have few teeth, such as the elderly.  They are also sometimes served to Air cultists such as Gagarth (if they are even welcome), Orlanth, and Stormbull, especially if they are priests.  There is no opprobrium in being served tripe, it is merely considered tender and easy to chew.

Requirement:  Anyone with Air Rune cult affiliation and a Reputation of less than 20%.  Also available to anyone over 60 years old.

9^th Cut. Sweetbreads- This is the pancreas, and is considered the sweetest cut of the beast.  As such it is reserved for the senior Eiritha Priestess.  While it is known that some have tasted the Sweetbreads, it is a sign of favor from the Senior priestess to be allowed to do so, and will be remarked upon for weeks afterwards.

Requirement:  Reserved for the senior Eiritha Priestess of the clan.  It is  gifted to a visiting High priestess if she is enjoying the clan’s hospitality.

10^th Cut. Liver-considered the prime cut, the Liver is offered to the warrior who has earned the most acclaim that day.  In some tribes it is always awarded to the warrior presently nominated as the Khan’s heir apparent.  In other tribes it is considered a reward to be given to whoever does the best by the tribe on that day.  It is the practice of the Tadawaha clan to reward based on daily performance.

Requirement:  Reserved for either the warrior of the clan with the highest Reputation other than the Chieftain, OR, as a reward for the clan member who earned the highest Reputation award in the last few days, as is the custom of the clan.  

11^th Cut. Kidneys- The kidneys of the beast are offered to the children of the one who owns the beast and has provided it for slaughter.  This is considered a blessing on their lineage and they are always provided by hand by the highest ranking Eiritha member in gratitude to the  parents.

Requirement:  Reserved for children of Adults with the highest Reputation.

12^th Cut. Genitals-The genitals of the animal are reserved for the consumption of newlyweds and are believed to be full of fertility power.  They are also given to adolescents at least once prior to their initiation to provide them with fertility in their adulthood.  On occasion they are provided to older clan members to help in their fertility too.

Requirement:  Reserved for adolescents Age 12+, Reputation 0-3%, or the most recent married couple (any reputation)

13^th Cut. Brisket- This is the chest of the beast, and is reserved for the better performing members of the clan.  It is rich tasty, fatty meat, and serves to remind them that they are the foremost.

Requirement:  Reputation 60%+

14^th Cut. Chuck-The chuck steaks are generally reserved for the children of the clan.

Requirement:  Clan members under 12 years of age.

15^th Cut. Ribs- These are given to the Stormbulls who delight in stripping the meat off them before passing the bones to the crafters to become armor.

Requirement:  Stormbull initiate clan members with Reputation of 50% or more.

16^th Cut. Sirloin-This is the best meat on the beast, and is reserved for the most favored members of the clan or tribe.  It reminds them that they are regarded the highest and that they are the backbone of the clan.

Requirement:  Any clan member with reputation of 50% or more. 

17^th Cut. Rump-These cuts go to hoi-poloi of the tribe.  Young lay-members and initiates who have not quite been pulling their weight.  This can include males and females, and it is a reminder that they are the hindmost.

Requirement:  Clan members under age 21 with reputations of 0-15%.

18^th Cut. Flank- Flank is reserved for those who are no longer children but not yet initiates, in short the proto-adolescent lay members (ages 7-13).  It is seen to help them grow and adapt to their sex roles in the tribe and clan.

Requirement:  Clan lay members of Waha, Eiritha, and Stormbull of ages 7-13.

19^th Cut. Offcuts-The anus, the nose, the lips, and  intestines, stomach, and various other nasty offcuts are reserved for the slaves of the clan, and the fringe dwellers who beg at the edge of the firelight.  These parts often require washing or solid cooking before they can be safely eaten.  Interestingly most of the cuts for the popular dish of Yelmalich are taken from the 19^th Cut, and yet it is considered a delicacy.

Requirement:  Slaves, Baboons, Ducks, Newtlings, hungry dogs and similar scum.

[Baron Wulfraed]

Just an observation: "Requirement" seems more "Restrictions" 😈

[g33k]

@MOB-
I hope the (very interesting) "Bedu" elements of this thread don't indicate Chaosium's intention for the Bedouin to become the primary source of inspiration for Prax...  I've long appreciated BOTH the real-world inspirations AND the multiplicity thereof (for any given Gloranthan culture)

Prax should no more be "not-Arabia" than it is "Not-AmerInd," but embrace elements of both (as well as Mongol riders, and others) to enrich the wonderful world of Glorantha!


While I'm on that hobbyhorse, BTW -- let me ask if there's plans to substantially broaden the Esrolian sources?  Because in terms of real-world inspiration, I'm seeing almost-entirely-Minoa cited online (and visually, with Esrolian-Ernaldan costumes & architecture; and of course the matriarchy (although very little is known about Minoan gov't, Esrolia seems to follow popular theories of Minoa, including religious and/or political matriarchal rule and a tight clique of ruling families)).  I *strongly* encourage that additional RW cultures be included when EsroliaPak (or HolyCountry) come out...

Edited August 30, 2021 by g33k

[Darius West]

3 hours ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

Just an observation: "Requirement" seems more "Restrictions" 😈

😁 Don't they always?

[Baron Wulfraed]

2 hours ago, Darius West said:

😁 Don't they always?

Not in my mind... the former is more "if you are one of these, you are granted access to these parts" (meaning other "parts" are still in play), while the latter is "if you one of these, you will only receive these parts" (no other "parts" are available).

 

[Darius West]

19 hours ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

Not in my mind... the former is more "if you are one of these, you are granted access to these parts" (meaning other "parts" are still in play), while the latter is "if you one of these, you will only receive these parts" (no other "parts" are available).

 

If you read more carefully, this is a formal ritual apportionment of a carcass that is done on special occasions to mark social standing within the tribe.  It is likely fair game to trade your cut if you can after the apportionment, but it is unlikely that anyone will trade down due to the loss of status implied.  Also, this doesn't apply to a Praxian family's periodic routine slaughter and butchery of their livestock, when they get whatever piece they want.