Eurmalian illumination

[Elcid321]

Hey there folks, i have a question.

How would an eurmalian based illumination work? How did it came to be? It's possible pros and cons? What would be it's secrets and what it's all about? Etc.

This question came to my head as i was talking with my brother who came with an idea of an illuminated eurmalian.

[metcalph]

An illuminated Eurmali is someone who appears rational and sane.  Known Eurmali behaving in such a fashion ire quickly killed for they are obviously up to no good. 

[Sir_Godspeed]

[coffeemancer]

Some Eurmali say the illusion rune was the first rune.

Meditate on that

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, coffeemancer said:

Some Eurmali say the illusion rune was the first rune.

Meditate on that

Don't, that usually spoils the illusion.

[PhilHibbs]

10 hours ago, Elcid321 said:

How would an eurmalian based illumination work? How did it came to be? It's possible pros and cons?

Pros and cons? Clearly it's all a con.

[Eff]

11 hours ago, Elcid321 said:

Hey there folks, i have a question.

How would an eurmalian based illumination work? How did it came to be? It's possible pros and cons? What would be it's secrets and what it's all about? Etc.

This question came to my head as i was talking with my brother who came with an idea of an illuminated eurmalian.

"'There must be some kind of way out of here,' said the joker to the thief. 'There's too much confusion. I can't get no relief.'

'Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth. None of them along the line know what any of it is worth.'

'No reason to get excited,' the thief he kindly spoke, 'There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke. But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate. So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late.'"

An Illuminated trickster, possibly freed from the domination of the desire drive which pushes them onward, nevertheless has the perspective to understand why their actions are important and essential, and so has every reason to keep at them. Tasting the curb and all. 

[EricW]

The only real limit on Tricksters is they have to obey the light bringer summons, when a prank goes too far and the compromise is threatened. Illumination liberates Trickster from having to clean up the mess. An illuminated Trickster would be living proof that illumination is chaos.

Edited August 4, 2021 by EricW

[jajagappa]

49 minutes ago, Eff said:

"'There must be some kind of way out of here,' said the joker to the thief. 'There's too much confusion. I can't get no relief.'

I started reading the thread, and a song came into my mind.  And I scrolled down, and there it was.  THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!

[Revilo Divad Of Dyoll]

I don't understand the question.  All tricksters are illuminated.  

The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool
 

 

[Nick Brooke]

[Ali the Helering]

What is the sound of one buttock farting, Grasshopper?

[Godweyn]

In my head an Eurmalian Trickster Illumination is one of the most dangerous and terrifying thing in all of Glorantha.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Godweyn

[PhilHibbs]

The good news is, Eurmali are far more of a danger to themselves than they are to the rest of the world, and illumination probably only makes that more so.

[Ormi Phengaria]

[scott-martin]

Arguably all real tricksters are already exempt from cult structures so enjoy some of the traditional benefits and challenges that come with illumination. If pushed I would handle Illusion-heavy cases (Mask, Shapeshifter, Frightener, Fool) a lot like Nysalor since they're invested in liberating consciousness from the world. They'd have an esoteric "logic" or pedagogical method that plays out in paradox, merry pranks (Kesey), language so twisted all you can do when you hear it is laugh. Zen shocks. Nasruddin stories. 

Disorder aspects can get farther out there because it's not so much about consciousness as working to break the structures of the world. Destroyer, Dismemberer, Murderer, Lightbringer. I would track the trickster illumination scores (and annual rolls!) of everyone around the character and when the weight of trickster magic gets too heavy around someone they earn a nihilistic breakdown and a spell of their own. 

In general it's interesting to consider each trickster spell as its own viral "riddle" or demonstration of the cosmic carnival of the absurd. Or just hand the character to the puppeteers and see what comes out.

[Leingod]

I'm in the "becoming a Trickster is basically a form of Illumination already" camp, and thus I would think Tricksters can't become Illuminated - though maybe they can convincingly pretend they are - because you can't become what you already kind of are.

To my mind, becoming a Trickster involves a glimpse into the Void, seeing - for just a moment - behind the masks and illusions that make up the world as we experience it. An individual's reaction to this varies, as does their comprehension of it, but in the end they are always changed forever, and their Trickster-like behavior afterwards is ultimately a reaction to this quick peek into the true fabric of reality.

A Nysalorean who learned this would probably see Tricksters as all being Occluded - the Trickster is someone who has glimpsed the truth with no preparation and went mad because they weren't ready to see what they saw and couldn't properly process it. A Trickster who knew enough about Illumination would laugh uproariously upon hearing that.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Leingod

[simonh]

Gbaji is a mask of Eurmal.

[EricW]

3 hours ago, Leingod said:

I'm in the "becoming a Trickster is basically a form of Illumination already" camp, and thus I would think Tricksters can't become Illuminated - though maybe they can convincingly pretend they are - because you can't become what you already kind of are.

To my mind, becoming a Trickster involves a glimpse into the Void, seeing - for just a moment - behind the masks and illusions that make up the world as we experience it. An individual's reaction to this varies, as does their comprehension of it, but in the end they are always changed forever, and their Trickster-like behavior afterwards is ultimately a reaction to this quick peek into the true fabric of reality.

A Nysalorean who learned this would probably see Tricksters as all being Occluded - the Trickster is someone who has glimpsed the truth with no preparation and went mad because they weren't ready to see what they saw and couldn't properly process it. A Trickster who knew enough about Illumination would laugh uproariously upon hearing that.

I don't think Trickster is allowed to take on chaos features or join chaos cults, so there is some difference between being a trickster and being an illuminate. Though it is interesting that riddlers are frequently referred to as tricksters.

And they are still subject to punishment from Eurmal if they do something really naughty - I mean, would Trickster pass up even once on the chink in the compromise which allows gods to mess with mortals when one of their followers breaks cult strictures? I think not!

There is one aspect of Eurmal which is pretty close to being a chaos god, the version of Eurmal which stole death, then started passing death around for laughs. Perhaps Illuminated tricksters essentially worship this aspect of Eurmal. But I don't think Eurmal is Gbaji - except maybe when he wants to be.

[jajagappa]

1 minute ago, EricW said:

is interesting that riddlers are frequently referred to as tricksters

Tricksters such as Raven are known for asking riddles, and what better way for riddlers to hide in society than as a trickster?  (Well, you've got to make sure you've got some protection, but that's easy enough to do.)

 

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, simonh said:

Gbaji is a mask of Eurmal.

That is almost certainly someone's belief in-universe.

[Darius West]

On 8/4/2021 at 8:48 AM, Elcid321 said:

Hey there folks, i have a question.

How would an eurmalian based illumination work? How did it came to be? It's possible pros and cons? What would be it's secrets and what it's all about? Etc.

This question came to my head as i was talking with my brother who came with an idea of an illuminated eurmalian.

According to the "scriptures", Elusu the little shit (Argrath's trickster) is an illuminate.  Oddi the Keen (Dorastan Uroxi hero) is on record as having stayed up long into the night riddling with tricksters before becoming an illuminate the following Sacred Time.  For the record others have travelled the path of the illuminated trickster before, even in canon. 

I suspect that illumination is probably more use to tricksters than almost anyone else.  Tricksters, if independent, are constantly having to hide their allegiance, so that is nothing new when they illuminate, but tricksters more than any other cult are able to benefit from not being subject to spirits of retribution.  Using their Lie spell, they can insinuate themselves into pretty much any cult they choose, and because they are illuminates, they no longer feel the compulsion to take reckless chances and liberties in their new position.  Stack that with membership in a Lanbril outfit so they have access to Divination Block and they can become invisible heroes of intrigue, up until they emerge from the shadows as rulers.  It's a hideously effective combination, and one that I would happily adopt as a God Learner back in 2nd Age due to it being such a terrifying exploit.

As to what the tradition is like, well, arguably there are more trickster illuminates than any other cult in Orlanthi lands, save for among the Lunar invaders.  After all, what is the harm in asking a few riddles?  People love riddles, don't they?   And tricksters are always up to something quasi-malicious.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Darius West

[EricW]

1 minute ago, Darius West said:

According to the "scriptures", Elusu the little shit (Argrath's trickster) is an illuminate.  Oddi the Keen is on record as having stayed up long into the night riddling with tricksters before becoming an illuminate the following Sacred Time.  I suspect that illumination is probably more use to tricksters than almost anyone else.  Tricksters, if independent, are constantly having to hide their allegiance, so that is nothing new when they illuminate, but tricksters more than any other cult are able to benefit from not being subject to spirits of retribution.  Using their Lie spell, they can insinuate themselves into pretty much any cult they choose, and because they are illuminates, they no longer feel the compulsion to take reckless chances and liberties in their new position.  Stack that with membership in a Lanbril outfit so they have access to Divination Block and they can become invisible heroes of intrigue, up until they emerge from the shadows as rulers.  It's a hideously effective combination, and one that I would happily adopt as a God Learner back in 2nd Age due to it being such a terrifying exploit.

As to what the tradition is like, well, arguably there are more trickster illuminates than any other cult in Orlanthi lands, save for among the Lunar invaders.  After all, what is the harm in asking a few riddles?  People love riddles.

Ah but the God Learners in Slontos did try to power game Trickster, and it didn't exactly work out for them.

A trickster who successfully exploits their power the way you describe verges on being a threat to the compromise, or as Eurmal would see it, a chance to have some real fun. Illumination doesn't protect you when the compromise is threatened and the gods awaken, as the God Learners and Lunars discovered the hard way. And there is no cannon description I'm aware, of Lunars attempting to exploit Eurmal's power. Perhaps they realised it was too dangerous, the powers awakened by a Trickster great temple would be more of a threat to people in the immediate vicinity than towards enemies in a hypothetical future engagement.

And of course an illuminate does not have to be Gbaji; I think just as Oddi the Keen decided to uphold honour, an illuminated Trickster could still enjoy a harmless prank or two, yet still respect their calling enough to honour the strictures of their cult. 

Ultimately Trickster agreed to help Orlanth, because with the entire world falling apart around him, and a very long list of angry people chasing him, there didn't seem to be any alternative. Even an illuminated trickster could reach the conclusion he had to do something to help, especially in the third age. 

[Joerg]

14 hours ago, EricW said:

I don't think Trickster is allowed to take on chaos features or join chaos cults, so there is some difference between being a trickster and being an illuminate. Though it is interesting that riddlers are frequently referred to as tricksters.

I don't think Trickster is allowed to murder, steal, lie, seduce (not reacting to "no"), etc., either. "You're not allowed to X" usually is an incentive that a Trickster will perform X.

Would Eurmal abandon a trickster who went over to Chaos? Only if it is hilarious. In an immature way.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Joerg

[simonh]

Tricksters are agents of change, who disrupt the established order so it's very handy to have them on your side when you're running a revolution.

The trickster cult has no established structure, there's no authority to say what they are or are not allowed to do. I very much doubt they have spirits of reprisal, unless they have ones that punish them for being boring or predictable, but even then that's just being contrary to the expectation of being contrary.

Tricksters are not exempt from social punishment for violating taboos, nor as far as I know are they exempt from magical backlash from violations either. If a trickster was stupid enough to join Humakt and  take Geases, they would apply as normal. If so, that's nothing like illumination. I really don't see why a trickster couldn't become illuminated or why it wouldn't work the same as with anyone else, in fact that seems just fine. I don't see why they couldn't gain chaos features either, after all if Broo can worship Humakt, why not Eurmal?

Furthermore it seems to me that worshipers of Nysalor and Primal Chaos in the Empire may fulfil some similar magical roles and ritual functions to Eurmali in Heortling society. It depends how you look at it, they're not fools and japesters in the same way but that's just superficial. They're agents of change that disrupt the order of things and the way you think about the world.

Edited August 7, 2021 by simonh