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Notes of Saird


jajagappa

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From Jeff's recent FB posts on Saird (one of my personal favorite places to explore):

Notes on Saird
The original "homeland" of the Yelmalio cult was Saird, a border land between Dragon Pass and Dara Happa. In the early First Age, this was a mixing ground of settlers from Dragon Pass, Pure Horse People, and various other groups such as the hunter-gatherer Jajajarings. It became part of the World Council of Friends by 150.
Between 375 and 425, there was an incredible mixing of cults and cultures in Saird. The Orlanth Thunderous cult was suppressed, many of the Wind Lords worshiped a mortal demigod as the incarnation of High Storm - we all know the story. Rebels like the old Berenething tribe were exterminated in Saird and their lands given to those loyal to the Broken Council. But outside of the Orlanth cult was a tremendous exploration of the paths of Light, encouraged by the Broken Council (and their new Light God). The Sons of the Sun were powerful and popular, and later given rule over Dragon Pass, with its unruly tribes, trolls, and dragonewts.
Arkat and his troll, Orlanthi, and Praxian allies defeated the Sons of the Sun and rule was given to the trolls. The Yelmalio cult (which were the spiritual heirs of the Sons of the Sun) overthrew the trolls in Saird. Although they initially fought against Dragon Pass, they soon joined the Empire of Wyrms Friends and became an important military arm of the EWF and aided in the conquest of Dara Happa. Sun Dome temples were built from Fronela to Prax.
But the Empire of the Wyrms Friends was forced out of Saird in 956 by a coalition of Carmanians, Dara Happans, and Orlanth Rex warlords, ruled by cadet branch of the very heterodox Karvanyar Dynasty. For almost 200 years, Saird was a melting point of Yelmalion, Orlanthi, Dara Happan, and Carmanian cultures. Chaos and dragons were identified with Ganesatarus the Devil, the Lodril cult was imported but Dendara did not take, every man was the Last Light against the dragons, and Yelm and Orlanth were viewed as the Rival Brothers - who would naturally quarrel unless held together for a greater purpose (usually by Yelmalio). Real world analogies - the Mitanni, Seleucid Syria, Lydia, etc.
Then came the Dragonkill War of 1120. The dynasty was extinguished, and Saird was briefly conquered by Dara Happa. When Dara Happa was dissected by the Carmanian Empire, Saird became dominated by Orlanthi and (to a lesser extent) Yelmalion tribes. When the Mad Sultanate showed up, the tribes were horrified by the Chaos brought by the new Lunar Empire. Many Sairdite tribes followed Jannisor in his Great War against the Lunar Empire (1270-1275) and were defeated at their moment of victory inside Glamour.
As the Lunar Empire marched south, conquering Sylila in 1309, the Sairdite tribes unified into the Kynnelfing Alliance, but were ultimately defeated by Hwarin Dalthippa in 1347. This sent the most anti-Lunar groups south across the Death Line into Dragon Pass. In Saird, the Seven Mothers and Hwarin Dalthippa became important cults. Over the next century, Saird became a battleground between mostly Orlanthi Tarshites and the Lunar satrapy of Sylila.
A stable Provincial system didn't really come into existence until 1555 (Phargentes was the first Provincial Overseer). Hon-eel early had came to Saird with her maize en route to Tarsh, and by now (1625) about a third of the population follows the Lunar Way. The Yelmalio cult is still important, although secondary to the Seven Mothers and Ernalda, and the Orlanth cult holds on with surprisingly large numbers, although largely subsumed into Barntar. Many peasants are descended from Pelorian colonists and worship Lodril instead.
 
> Now Monrogh only shows up into this story after around 1582 or so. The Provincial Kings, seeking military allies, encourage the local Yelmalio cult to organise along Monrogh's lines and into Sun Domes, thus returning the cult back to where it was in the Second Age, as valuable mercenaries for whoever is the regional ruler.
> But you can see from this, Yelmalio has been around in Peloria since the beginning.
> When you tell the story from this perspective, the Praxian Sun Dome Temple is just a weird footnote ("did you know that Yelmalio made it all the way to Prax in the Second Age, and there is a weird little colony of them still there! Wow!"), and the whole Elmal-Yelmalio thing becomes another footnote ("did you know that the rebellious Hendriking tribe had a weird little Yelmalio variant that was tolerated by the trolls and the Only Old One, but it died out in the 1550s when they embraced the larger Yelmalio cult?").
 
> and also remember, the Carmanian-Dara Happan-Orlanth Rex coalition that liberated Saird would be made up of weirdos, experimenters, hyper-pragmatists, and all sorts of desperate folk willing to work together because otherwise it means extinction.
> One can think of the Seven Mothers and the early Lunars as being within that tradition, just this time they are focused against the Carmanians (and the horse nomads).
 
> And this Long History of Peloria is askew to the Comprehensive History of Dragon Pass. The Hero Wars is a meeting of tectonic plates.
 
> So I encourage you to imagine Saird as a densely populated and very urbanised place with three large cities (including one metropolis) but also with many rural tribes who often play kingmaker in city politics. The Daughter's Road runs through it on its way to Jillaro.
The three large cities are all within 90 km of each other (Mirin's Cross and Fyllich Kwan are only 50 km apart). It is a melting pot, with Lunar missionaries, bureaucrats, and officers, Yelmalion Sun Domers, Earth Priestesses, other Lightbringers, Dara Happan nobles and Lodrilli peasants, all jostling against each other.
 
> Although Yelmalio is associated with Yelm, the Yelmalio cult is autonomous. Within the Lunar Heartlands, the Yelmalio cult is of course subject to the Red Emperor and his satraps, but so is almost every other cult (Red Goddess, Seven Mothers, Lodril, Dendara, Polaris, even Shargash). In the Lunar Provinces this gets a bit trickier. The Provincial Overseer has rule over the Provinces, and many Sun Dome Temples have treaties of alliance with individual provincial kings. Plus there are likely some long-standing contracts between the Lunar rulers and individual Sun Dome Temples.  But the Provincial Overseer is dead. Many provincial leaders lack the coin to pay their contracts, and besides the Lunar Empire is a bit preoccupied right now with a Pentan invasion and a White Moon uprising.
 
> Thus in the Hero Wars, individual Sun Dome Temples will go their own way, fight both for and against the Lunar Empire. But Yelmalio dislikes the Red Goddess, so the Lunars need to pay extra.
 
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And one more post by Jeff on FB:

Here is a far more detailed map of Saird, which gives an idea how densely populated this lowlands here are. Lots of villages! And the Daughter's Road running from Jillaro to Filichet is going to be the symbol of Saird for most people. Over 250 years old, this is an incredible monument of magic and engineering. No wonder Hwarin Dalthippa is a goddess!

>Now something I find particularly interesting on this map is that we get Furthest in the very southeast corner. You can't really talk about the Lunar Provinces without mentioning Furthest, which is the jewel in the Provincial Crown. As I have mentioned before, Furthest is one of the most Lunar cities in the Lunar Empire, built to glorify the Lunar Way and extend the Reaching Moon. Interestingly, that means that the area around Furthest has some of the deepest Lunar roots on the map - only Jillaro is comparable.

> Now it is only about 170 or so km between Furthest and Mirin's Cross, but that is still about the distance between Rome and Capua.

> So if you think of Saird as about 190 km by about 190 km (36k km2) you get something a little bigger than Belgium or a little smaller than Brandenburg. It is the cockpit of Peloria, where Dragon Pass and lowland Peloria like to fight their wars.

Q: Is Aggar part of Saird?

A: Part of it is. Most of it is not.

 

No photo description available.

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8 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

It is a melting pot, with Lunar missionaries, bureaucrats, and officers, Yelmalion Sun Domers, Earth Priestesses, other Lightbringers, Dara Happan nobles and Lodrilli peasants, all jostling against each other.

This was why I set my original campaign back in the 80's/90's in this region - lots of opportunity to incorporate a variety of backgrounds in a group of PC's. 

4 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

It is the cockpit of Peloria, where Dragon Pass and lowland Peloria like to fight their wars.

And lots of opportunities to fight, rebel, build up your own petty kingdom, etc.  The Provincial Overseer is dead, as Jeff notes.  Tarsh is still mucking about in Dragon Pass, the Red Emperor is dealing with a Pentan invasion and White Moonies, and Saird is up-for-grabs.  (Too bad the Brass Gates of Hilltown were closed by the dwarfs cutting off a good supply of metal..., but perhaps the trolls of Yolp will aid you, if not one of the local Sun Domes.)

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2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Here is a far more detailed map of Saird

There's a great caravan route on the map running from Furthest to Filichet (by Lake Invaress), then onto the Daughter's Road to bring you to Mirin's Cross and Jillaro.  Of course, you also have the choice to take a boat downriver from Furthest to Jillaro if a boat will fit the goods you're trading.  But maybe you want to take the road when you head back south?

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42 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Wasn't there something about how the name "Ernalda" originated from Saird?

That has been suggested in the past.  I wouldn't focus too much on the name origin - Ernalda is the Earth goddess of Saird, not Dendara.

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1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

That has been suggested in the past.  I wouldn't focus too much on the name origin - Ernalda is the Earth goddess of Saird, not Dendara.

It is wrong. Ernaldela is the land of Ernalda - which happens to coincide with the lands south of Kero Fin down to the Spike. Saird is north of there. But I am certain First Age Dara Happans assumed Ernalda comes from Saird.

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10 minutes ago, Jeff said:

It is wrong. Ernaldela is the land of Ernalda - which happens to coincide with the lands south of Kero Fin down to the Spike. Saird is north of there. But I am certain First Age Dara Happans assumed Ernalda comes from Saird.

This makes sense.

(Unless you get a bit conspiratorial and argue that Ernaldela is a post-Dawn name attributed to a region that previously carried another name HOWEVER I will refrain from doing this as I'm sure you get enough obstinate folks in the Elmal thread. 😄)

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26 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

This makes sense.

(Unless you get a bit conspiratorial and argue that Ernaldela is a post-Dawn name attributed to a region that previously carried another name HOWEVER I will refrain from doing this as I'm sure you get enough obstinate folks in the Elmal thread. 😄)

Ernaldela is a VERY old name. Older than Peloria or Dara Happa. From the Wisconsin or the Belt Buckle Era.

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Thanks to the writer and the sharer, a very insightful read.

On 8/11/2021 at 2:50 PM, jajagappa said:

This was why I set my original campaign back in the 80's/90's in this region - lots of opportunity to incorporate a variety of backgrounds in a group of PC's. 

And lots of opportunities to fight, rebel, build up your own petty kingdom, etc.  The Provincial Overseer is dead, as Jeff notes.  Tarsh is still mucking about in Dragon Pass, the Red Emperor is dealing with a Pentan invasion and White Moonies, and Saird is up-for-grabs.  (Too bad the Brass Gates of Hilltown were closed by the dwarfs cutting off a good supply of metal..., but perhaps the trolls of Yolp will aid you, if not one of the local Sun Domes.)

I too have thoght that a campaign in Saird (well, the Lunar Provinces in general) would be very cool, especially bc a lot of my players are pro-lunars, but I have never tried bc I'm afraid of not being able to create a realistic and "close to the spirit of Glorantha" scenario due to my ignorance of the region's lore. If you are knowledgeable in the matter, could you point to some material that talks about the area or adventures, if there's any, or even share some extra tips that you learned while doing your own campaign?

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3 hours ago, Jape_Vicho said:

If you are knowledgeable in the matter, could you point to some material that talks about the area or adventures, if there's any, or even share some extra tips that you learned while doing your own campaign?

If you have access to TotRM #16, you'll find my overview of the 2nd Daughter's Road (the Singing Trail) and a cameo scenario "A Storm Upon the Singing Trail" there.

Also, check out this thread from a few years ago which has bits on Imther, a map of Hilltown, and some information on a mercantile venture to the Elf Sea. 

My map of Filichet is in this thread along with various notes and stories about Holay:

My original map of Hortugarth is in this thread:

 

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On 8/11/2021 at 7:36 AM, jajagappa said:

Now Monrogh only shows up into this story after around 1582 or so. The Provincial Kings, seeking military allies, encourage the local Yelmalio cult to organise along Monrogh's lines and into Sun Domes, thus returning the cult back to where it was in the Second Age, as valuable mercenaries for whoever is the regional ruler.

I find this pretty interesting. Does this just mean that the Yelmalians identified with clan and tribe before their temple? Or were the temples abandoned until the Provincial Kings came along?

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3 hours ago, Jape_Vicho said:

I too have thoght that a campaign in Saird (well, the Lunar Provinces in general) would be very cool, especially bc a lot of my players are pro-lunars, but I have never tried bc I'm afraid of not being able to create a realistic and "close to the spirit of Glorantha" scenario due to my ignorance of the region's lore.

Pretty much everything you need to run a campaign in the Saird region is in the following sources:

  • Guide to Glorantha - all the basic background on the Lunar Provinces you need
  • The Redline History of the Lunar Empire in the Glorantha Sourcebook, particularly the 1st and 2nd Wanes (Jannisor and the Conquering Daughter respectively), and some bits from the 6th and 7th Wanes.
  • Any of the cults books that contain Orlanth, Yelmalio, Seven Mothers, Ernalda, Issaries, Humakt, and Lhankor Mhy.  The old Gods of Glorantha book had a short version of Etyries which I used, and I modeled Yanafal Tarnils on Humakt, Irrippi Ontor on Lhankor Mhy.  I created my own version of Hwarin Dalthippa, but she'll be coming in the Cults book (if you go through the Red Book of Magic, though, you'll realize that she gets:  Daughter's Road, Shield, and Create Bridge).

The following have some interesting added bits:

  • Wyrms Footnotes #4 (available in pdf at DriveThruRPG) - see the Red Moon in Prax article on Jannisor Moonchaser (reprinted in Wyrms Footprints collection)
  • Wyrms Footnotes #2 (also available) - see the Carving of Tarsh article (includes some bits about the Daughter's Roads and the campaigns against the kingdom of Tarsh)

This is the land of the Hill of Gold, of Orlanthi vying with Yelmalio, of Orlanthi retreating into the hills under the advance of the Lunars, of good Lunars and evil Lunars, of cautious intrigues between rival kingdoms, of a mighty river that unites the great cities...

So, what campaign do you want to play?  Bold explorers heading to the Elf Sea for riches?  (Griffin Mountain is a great addition for that)  Merchants delivering cargo downriver to the Lunar Heartland, or just to Jillaro?  Pilgrims going to one of the holy sites?  (The Hill of Gold for Yelmalio, but watch out for thieving Vanchites who'll sell you out when least expected, or just sell you Fool's Gold for sacred Light crystals.  Giant Top, the great Orlanthi mountain in Imther.  The Oracle of Jillaro, to learn your fate if you can brave the Terrors of the Pit....)

 

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10 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

I find this pretty interesting. Does this just mean that the Yelmalians identified with clan and tribe before their temple? Or were the temples abandoned until the Provincial Kings came along?

Personally, I think the temples were reoccupied fairly soon after the Dragonkill (though Jeff might have different thoughts there).  Kareiston's Temple in the southlands of Imther was certainly the tribal center of the Laramites.  The other Yelmalion temples may have been tribal centers as well, but Hwarin's campaigns likely broke a number of these (particularly those along the Daughter's Roads). 

However, during the ~100 years of nomad incursions, these temples were likely bastions in their areas for defense against nomad attacks.  After Lunar dominance was reasserted, it's likely their role diminished, but with the advent of the Lunar Provincial Admin, they seem to have become centers of mercenary recruitment for the southern wars.

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An underrated potential for campaigns in the Lunar Empire, particularly in the Provinces, is to run capers or picaresques, which of course synchronize well with a pilgrimage narrative. Your PCs move from station to station, following the Conquering Daughter or climbing every mountain with a spiral storm hanging about or meditating at the Hill of Gold, and in the process they run across various stalls in a bazaar of the bizarre- here we have a utopian model village set up by some crackpot Heartlander, there we have an uncouth community of frightful unreconstructed Orlanth initiates who just happen to need your refined insights, over there the Church of Immortality has knocked time out of joint, and then you get into Imther, where, as a Midwestern American, I would have to make jokes about the Green Bay Packers and Wisconsin again and again. But you might be free from that compulsion!

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The Thelxinoë of the Graclodont set.

Eight Arms and the Mask

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4 hours ago, Jape_Vicho said:

or even share some extra tips that you learned while doing your own campaign?

Tip #1: don't be afraid to run a campaign in an area because you don't feel you have enough content or lore! 

Tip #2: if you don't have material about a place, make it up!  (Yes, you may find it doesn't eventually align to "canon" - aspects of my version of Imther and the city of Hortugarth did not - but I also had 10 years of very enjoyable gaming based on what I created, and some of my creations become "canon" after all.)

Tip #3: determine what type of campaign you want to run and your players want to play, and figure out how that works into the setting, or how you'll modify the setting to run that game.

Overall, there's a lot of events happening in the Lunar Provinces/Saird post-Dragonrise.

Here's your Starting Point (from Glorantha Sourcebook p.188-9):

To restore order to the cosmos, the priests, priestesses, and nobles of the Lunar Empire gathered in 7/54 (1625) to sanctify the new Temple of the Reaching Moon in Dragon Pass to finish the task of suppressing the Rebel Gods. The Governor-General of the South assembled thousands of Lunar magicians, provincial leaders, and many regiments of soldiers to sanctify the new Temple of the Reaching Moon in Sartar. Instead disaster struck.... a monstrous True Dragon awakened beneath the temple. It devoured the temple, the priests, the magicians, the provincial leaders, and the regiments of soldiers. In one moment, half the Empire’s military might was destroyed. Many of the Empire’s greatest leaders, including Appius Luxius, Tatius the Bright, and Enerian Scarlet, were lost forever.

With the Provincial Overseer devoured by the True Dragon, and the Provincial Government in shatters, the hill tribes in Aggar, Talastar, Vanch, Imther, and even Holay rose in rebellion. The rebels in Aggar defeated the remaining Lunar friends in that province and acclaimed one of their own king of Aggar. By end of 8/1 (1626), much of the Lunar Provinces were lost to the Empire, except for such strongholds as Tarsh, Mirin’s Cross, and Vanch. In Imther, an imperial appointee ruled little more than Hilltown.  [And, in addition, Pentan bands raided ... deep into Imther and Holay.]

Choose your starting kingdom and location (city or clan).  There are multiple "leaders" who are now striving to gain control of the city, tribe, or even kingdom - one is a potential patron, or likely ally (but they demand aid and assistance); one is a dire villain (committing atrocities, or even invoking foul deities).   But which is which and how will you choose?  How will you survive now for the omens all proclaim that the Hero Wars are upon you?

Most of the leaders are new, or are left without clear allies/patrons - it's a largely clean slate for you to create upon.

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24 minutes ago, Eff said:

and then you get into Imther, where, as a Midwestern American, I would have to make jokes about the Green Bay Packers and Wisconsin again and again. But you might be free from that compulsion!

Or cheesemaking... 😉  (Hmm, are my origins betrayed???)

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8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Tip #1: don't be afraid to run a campaign in an area because you don't feel you have enough content or lore! 

Tip #2: if you don't have material about a place, make it up!  (Yes, you may find it doesn't eventually align to "canon" - aspects of my version of Imther and the city of Hortugarth did not - but I also had 10 years of very enjoyable gaming based on what I created, and some of my creations become "canon" after all.)

Tip #3: determine what type of campaign you want to run and your players want to play, and figure out how that works into the setting, or how you'll modify the setting to run that game.

Overall, there's a lot of events happening in the Lunar Provinces/Saird post-Dragonrise.

Here's your Starting Point (from Glorantha Sourcebook p.188-9):

To restore order to the cosmos, the priests, priestesses, and nobles of the Lunar Empire gathered in 7/54 (1625) to sanctify the new Temple of the Reaching Moon in Dragon Pass to finish the task of suppressing the Rebel Gods. The Governor-General of the South assembled thousands of Lunar magicians, provincial leaders, and many regiments of soldiers to sanctify the new Temple of the Reaching Moon in Sartar. Instead disaster struck.... a monstrous True Dragon awakened beneath the temple. It devoured the temple, the priests, the magicians, the provincial leaders, and the regiments of soldiers. In one moment, half the Empire’s military might was destroyed. Many of the Empire’s greatest leaders, including Appius Luxius, Tatius the Bright, and Enerian Scarlet, were lost forever.

With the Provincial Overseer devoured by the True Dragon, and the Provincial Government in shatters, the hill tribes in Aggar, Talastar, Vanch, Imther, and even Holay rose in rebellion. The rebels in Aggar defeated the remaining Lunar friends in that province and acclaimed one of their own king of Aggar. By end of 8/1 (1626), much of the Lunar Provinces were lost to the Empire, except for such strongholds as Tarsh, Mirin’s Cross, and Vanch. In Imther, an imperial appointee ruled little more than Hilltown.  [And, in addition, Pentan bands raided ... deep into Imther and Holay.]

Choose your starting kingdom and location (city or clan).  There are multiple "leaders" who are now striving to gain control of the city, tribe, or even kingdom - one is a potential patron, or likely ally (but they demand aid and assistance); one is a dire villain (committing atrocities, or even invoking foul deities).   But which is which and how will you choose?  How will you survive now for the omens all proclaim that the Hero Wars are upon you?

Most of the leaders are new, or are left without clear allies/patrons - it's a largely clean slate for you to create upon.

Thanks for all the work, as always Jajagappa. I hope to put all this info to good use in a future campaign. 

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A couple questions came up about Saird in the Journal of Runic Studies #9 https://godlearners.com/journal-of-runic-studies-9/

Q: Now, this is where I often get confused: some Gloranthan names relate to geographical locations, while others relate to nations and settled areas. I’m never sure which is which… I think that Saird is a geographical location. As such, it overlaps with nations such as Holay and Aggar and maybe even Vanch. I think? Maybe?

Joerg provided relevant answers in the journal, but here are a few additional points from my work with the area.

1) Yes, Saird is a geographical location.  In its most limited view, it is the rich river valley along the Oslir/Black Eel confluence roughly from Nodnor to Bostok and centered on Mirin's Cross (originally the site of Urar Baar and later Domanand).  (The Oslir valley to the north from Thernan past Jillaro is the area called Terarir.  The Forantin river valley to the south into Aggar is called Orenarir (or variously Orenair.)  It is extensively farmed and fished.

image.png.9301738312bd048099aa14bdb95c1d07.png

2) The word "Saird" is of unknown origin and meaning.  But, I think it is a very old word that predates the Dawn.  Maybe it means "well", or "bowl", or "birthplace".  Doesn't really matter though as whoever named it is likely long gone from the world (or a mystery to be penetrated on some heroquest to the Green or Golden Age).

3) Saird was also the name of the Kingdom that arose when the Three Brothers defeated the EWF.  It was the kingdom of Verenmars and his heirs.  That kingdom fell at the time of the Dragonkill.  The Lunar Provincial Administration roughly rules over its former area and includes the kingdoms of Holay, Imther, and parts of Aggar and Tarsh.  (Vanch is its own distinct geographical region and kingdom, and is definitely not part of Saird.)

Q: By “we all know the story”, of course, Jeff means “Gloranthaphiles may know the story”. I totally don’t! I have no idea who that mortal demigod is, but judging from a quick search in the Guide, and from the comments on Facebook, it might be Lokamayadon, priest of Nysalor who “usurped Orlanth’s place in [the Heortlings’] temples“.

A: Yes, Lokamayadon.  He's not really a "priest of Nysalor" though.  He was an Orlanthi who became a priest-king and then discovered and became priest of Tarumath, the High Air.  Effectively, he became a god (familiar story).  And he destroyed many of the ancient Vingkotling tribes that survived.  He also became a leader in the project to create Nysalor, so in that sense he became the primary leader of the Bright Empire in southern Peloria and Dragon Pass.

 

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9 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

A couple questions came up about Saird in the Journal of Runic Studies #9 https://godlearners.com/journal-of-runic-studies-9/

Q: Now, this is where I often get confused: some Gloranthan names relate to geographical locations, while others relate to nations and settled areas. I’m never sure which is which… I think that Saird is a geographical location. As such, it overlaps with nations such as Holay and Aggar and maybe even Vanch. I think? Maybe?

Joerg provided relevant answers in the journal, but here are a few additional points from my work with the area.

1) Yes, Saird is a geographical location.  In its most limited view, it is the rich river valley along the Oslir/Black Eel confluence roughly from Nodnor to Bostok and centered on Mirin's Cross (originally the site of Urar Baar and later Domanand).  (The Oslir valley to the north from Thernan past Jillaro is the area called Terarir.  The Forantin river valley to the south into Aggar is called Orenarir (or variously Orenair.)  It is extensively farmed and fished.

image.png.9301738312bd048099aa14bdb95c1d07.png

2) The word "Saird" is of unknown origin and meaning.  But, I think it is a very old word that predates the Dawn.  Maybe it means "well", or "bowl", or "birthplace".  Doesn't really matter though as whoever named it is likely long gone from the world (or a mystery to be penetrated on some heroquest to the Green or Golden Age).

3) Saird was also the name of the Kingdom that arose when the Three Brothers defeated the EWF.  It was the kingdom of Verenmars and his heirs.  That kingdom fell at the time of the Dragonkill.  The Lunar Provincial Administration roughly rules over its former area and includes the kingdoms of Holay, Imther, and parts of Aggar and Tarsh.  (Vanch is its own distinct geographical region and kingdom, and is definitely not part of Saird.)

Q: By “we all know the story”, of course, Jeff means “Gloranthaphiles may know the story”. I totally don’t! I have no idea who that mortal demigod is, but judging from a quick search in the Guide, and from the comments on Facebook, it might be Lokamayadon, priest of Nysalor who “usurped Orlanth’s place in [the Heortlings’] temples“.

A: Yes, Lokamayadon.  He's not really a "priest of Nysalor" though.  He was an Orlanthi who became a priest-king and then discovered and became priest of Tarumath, the High Air.  Effectively, he became a god (familiar story).  And he destroyed many of the ancient Vingkotling tribes that survived.  He also became a leader in the project to create Nysalor, so in that sense he became the primary leader of the Bright Empire in southern Peloria and Dragon Pass.

 

Saird is a region. Like Dragon Pass, Safelster, the Midwest, New England, the Low Countries, Franconia, or the Inland Empire. It is roughly 190 km by 190 km, so has a common geography, a common history, but several languages and many cults. Normally any unity the region has is imposed from without (the First and Second Councils, the Kingdom of Dragon Pass, the Empire of the Wyrms Friends, and the Lunar Empire), but sometimes it is unified locally (the Kingdom of Saird, the Kynnelfing Alliance, etc.).

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1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

A: Yes, Lokamayadon.  He's not really a "priest of Nysalor" though.

Thanks for all the answers jaja! About this though, like I said, I know nothing of this guy, but the full quote from the Guide is: "The Heortlings were broken and enslaved, and Nysalor’s priest Lokamayadon even usurped Orlanth’s place in their temples."  So "Nysalor's priest" here means "an Orlanthi priest who was a close subject of Nysalor"? (as opposed to "a priest who worshipped Nysalor"?)

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39 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Thanks for all the answers jaja! About this though, like I said, I know nothing of this guy, but the full quote from the Guide is: "The Heortlings were broken and enslaved, and Nysalor’s priest Lokamayadon even usurped Orlanth’s place in their temples."  So "Nysalor's priest" here means "an Orlanthi priest who was a close subject of Nysalor"? (as opposed to "a priest who worshipped Nysalor"?)

You might find a bit more on pages 713-714. But essentially, his story is a complete tangent to this discussion, unless for some reason you are running a game set in the Broken Council.

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7 hours ago, Jeff said:

You might find a bit more on pages 713-714.

Also see Wyrms Footnotes #15 for the Battle of Night and Day.

However, all of that is 1000+ years in the past.  It's like Alexander listening to the epics of the Tales of Troy - something ancient and gone, of places that are lost and forgotten. 

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