100 Roll When Flipping Digits

[Kloster]

32 minutes ago, Mugen said:

Also, I can't answer for @Kloster, but my understanding was that his answer wasn't only about when two characters are opposed, either in combat or other situations, but a general remark about the chances for a "master" to get superior success thanks to his very high skill.

Your understanding is correct.

33 minutes ago, Mugen said:

I also personally don't think there's anything inherently silly for two masters to reach a skill level so high they have 95% (remember the automatic failure on 96+ rule in RQ) chance to roll a crit.

Same for me.

33 minutes ago, Mugen said:

Surely not a very exciting situation in play, though.

If the players are just throwing dices, waiting for the better roll, you're right. If they are trying to use all possible tricks the world, the situation and the rules are offering, this can be interesting.

[Newt]

OpenQuest 3 went doubles for critical/fumbles, with the spending of fortune points flipping dice points. Without going into the maths of it, I made the change because its a ton of fun in play and its easy for newcommers to pick up.

That be said old hands are constantly sighing, 03 if that was RQ it would have been a critical! 🤣

[deleriad]

I use doubles for criticals/fumbles when playing with people who are basically non-gamers. It's simple and quite intuitive "twice as good/bad." I also use exact skill rating as auto success (e.g. 73% skill, roll 73 is auto success and even better than a regular double) and 00 as auto-fail. I don't use 01-05 as auto success or 96-00 as auto fail.

I don't use skill modifiers. If something is hard I'll say you'll have to succeed twice or if it is easy, you get two chances to do it. Really hard is only doubles will succeed. (Really easy is you succeed but you can roll to see if you get a double if you like.)

I have occasionally mulled over trying this in a "real" campaign but life has got in the way of regular role-playing. 

I did try using flipping for a while but it always felt kind of awkward. 

 

[Questbird]

11 hours ago, deleriad said:

I use doubles for criticals/fumbles when playing with people who are basically non-gamers. It's simple and quite intuitive "twice as good/bad." I also use exact skill rating as auto success (e.g. 73% skill, roll 73 is auto success and even better than a regular double) and 00 as auto-fail. I don't use 01-05 as auto success or 96-00 as auto fail.

I don't use skill modifiers. If something is hard I'll say you'll have to succeed twice or if it is easy, you get two chances to do it. Really hard is only doubles will succeed. (Really easy is you succeed but you can roll to see if you get a double if you like.)

I have occasionally mulled over trying this in a "real" campaign but life has got in the way of regular role-playing. 

I did try using flipping for a while but it always felt kind of awkward. 

 

 

I like the simplicity of that. It's like the basic d100 system: explaining it is easy. Roll under your skill = success.

In this case you could add:

Roll exactly your skill = super success

Roll 100 = fail

Roll doubles = 'crazy fate', twice as good or bad, depending on under your skill or not.

[g33k]

I'm considering a "Doubles-are-Crit-and-Fumble d99" system ("d99" = d100, but 0-99 instead of 1-100, so 00 is lowest/best, 99 is highest/worst (and there's no natural "100" roll'able).

IIRC, one of the existing little indie "not-BRP d100" systems does this (or something like it) already, but I misremember which.  I keep meaning to find it again and read it through.
 

[Jakob]

3 hours ago, g33k said:

I'm considering a "Doubles-are-Crit-and-Fumble d99" system ("d99" = d100, but 0-99 instead of 1-100, so 00 is lowest/best, 99 is highest/worst (and there's no natural "100" roll'able).

IIRC, one of the existing little indie "not-BRP d100" systems does this (or something like it) already, but I misremember which.  I keep meaning to find it again and read it through.
 

I think that would be Eclipse Phase.

[g33k]

13 hours ago, Jakob said:

I think that would be Eclipse Phase.

No; or at least, not the one I was thinking of.  EP certainly goes above 100, for example.

But I remember finding a little b&w 100-ish page RPG ... somewhere ... that was  VERY  BRP-alike, but (I think) was "d99" instead of d100, and used doubles-are-extra as described.

[Atgxtg]

15 minutes ago, g33k said:

No; or at least, not the one I was thinking of.  EP certainly goes above 100, for example.

But I remember finding a little b&w 100-ish page RPG ... somewhere ... that was  VERY  BRP-alike, but (I think) was "d99" instead of d100, and used doubles-are-extra as described.

I recall seeing something like that too.

00 was the lowest/best roll, 99 the highest, and doubles were crticals or fumbles depending on if they were under or over the skill rating.

[Lloyd Dupont]

28 minutes ago, g33k said:

No; or at least, not the one I was thinking of.  EP certainly goes above 100, for example.

But I remember finding a little b&w 100-ish page RPG ... somewhere ... that was  VERY  BRP-alike, but (I think) was "d99" instead of d100, and used doubles-are-extra as described.

maybe the Sabre RPG?

Sabre RPG is cool.. but it definitely have classes and sort of level... (which is a feature purposely avoided by BRP)

It well written, quite detailed though 🙂

Edited August 25, 2021 by Lloyd Dupont

[g33k]

4 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

I recall seeing something like that too.

00 was the lowest/best roll, 99 the highest, and doubles were crticals or fumbles depending on if they were under or over the skill rating.

I thought it was very-like BRP; it seemed like it would play identically at the table, except for those details.  "99% to 100% compatible," if you will.  😉
Not all that much larger than Chaosium's BRP "Quickstart" (the BGB-cover item).

I thought the innovations were REALLY good for a newbies/intro game:  zero-is-actually-100 has confused more than one newb, IME; and "doubles" is instantly recognizable, vs. the ever-shifting "1/10 of skill" or "1/20 of skill" or any other fraction you choose.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

maybe the Sabre RPG?

Sabre RPG is cool.. but it definitely have classes and sort of level... (which is a feature purposely avoided by BRP)

It well written, quite detailed though 🙂

Pretty sure it's not Sabre, which AFAICT is more of a mashup of OSR-D&D with BRP/d100; and, as noted, "bigger" and more-detailed.  The game I recall looked like minor tweaks to BRP, without any D&D'isms.

Maybe I stumbled upon an early-draft of Sabre?  Doubt it, but... maybe...?

[deleriad]

3 hours ago, g33k said:

I thought the innovations were REALLY good for a newbies/intro game:  zero-is-actually-100 has confused more than one newb, IME; 

This has happened to me too. I remember a player who just couldn't get her head around the notion that rolling 00 was 100 rather than zero. 

[Atgxtg]

On 8/25/2021 at 2:13 PM, g33k said:

I thought it was very-like BRP; it seemed like it would play identically at the table, except for those details.  "99% to 100% compatible," if you will.  😉
Not all that much larger than Chaosium's BRP "Quickstart" (the BGB-cover item).

HARN is somewhat similar with rolls than end on 5 or 0 being crticals or fumbles depending on if they are successful or not. It's really simple to game, scales along with skill, and doesn't require any table to use.

 

On 8/25/2021 at 2:13 PM, g33k said:

I thought the innovations were REALLY good for a newbies/intro game:  zero-is-actually-100 has confused more than one newb,

I think the 00 =100 thing isn't that diffuclt to grasp, but a 00-99 roll isn't any harder to run than 01-100. 

BTW Halcyon uses a 00-99 mechanic, and I think the first game I saw using is was some sort of espionage RPG.

On 8/25/2021 at 2:13 PM, g33k said:

IME; and "doubles" is instantly recognizable, vs. the ever-shifting "1/10 of skill" or "1/20 of skill" or any other fraction you choose.

Yeah, I even tried using it for a BRP variant I was working on. I think the 0, and 5 rule from HARN is as easy to use as doubles. 

Personally, I think the best method would probably be to somehow use the values on the dice as the effect (damage, distance moved, etc.) instead of degrees of success, but implementing it is the tricky part. That way you don't get the 2 point impales and such.

 

On 8/25/2021 at 2:13 PM, g33k said:

Pretty sure it's not Sabre, which AFAICT is more of a mashup of OSR-D&D with BRP/d100; and, as noted, "bigger" and more-detailed.  The game I recall looked like minor tweaks to BRP, without any D&D'isms.

I think I saw it in some new spy/espionage RPG, maybe Covert Ops. I recall it have very simple game mechanics with the "00" thing being a twist that stood out.

On 8/25/2021 at 2:13 PM, g33k said:

Maybe I stumbled upon an early-draft of Sabre?  Doubt it, but... maybe...?

I've seen more than one RPG that uses 00=Zero, it seems to be a popular thing now, so there could be dozens of RPGs out there that use it.

[g33k]

Necro/Update:

The mechanics I was recalling (above) -- or perhaps better to say trying to recall -- were "d00Lite" from DwD Studios.  Skills are roll-low on d100; the roll is read as 00low - 99high (instead of 01low-100high); doubles are crit/fumble.  (I hesitate to say it, but... I kinda think this is... better than BRP...  Except that I really LOVE the "Special" result, intermediate between a "normal" hit and a "critical."  I am considering whether/how to use the d00Lite method in place of core RQ/BRP in my RQG (!) ) .

DwD has several RPGs that use the d00Lite system -- Barebones Fantasy, Frontier Space, Covert Ops (bonus points to @Atgxtgwho called this!), Art of Wuxia.

Despite similarities to BRP's d100, their mechanic seems largely derived from the old TSR "Star Frontiers" game (which (I theorize) may itself have taken some cues from BRP/RQ).  DwD's FS game is sort of a retroclone / evolution / homage to TSR's SF.

I was playing Traveller & Gamma World for my sci-fi RPG'ing, back then, and all the boxes of TSR's SF game were shrink-wrapped; I never actually saw anything but the cover, so I cannot personally speak to how similar DwD/FS is (or is not) to TSR/SF.

===

Interestingly, d00Lite stats are in the 20-80 range and treated as percentile-scores to roll against  (much like CoC7).  It uses the "class as skill" idea -- a "Warrior" is skilled at all fighty-things, a "Thief" is good at all sneaky things, etc.  BBF has players pick a primary and secondary class/skill.  "Levels" play in, too (I guess you can add a level of another skillset/class, to broaden out; or "level up" an existing one?).  I'm less enthusiastic about this element; I like the different skills (as per the RQ lineage); "class as skill" is a D&Dism I dislike.

Core stats are NOT fixed in d00Lite:  BBF only has 4 (STRength/DEXterity/LOGic/WISdom), whereas FS has 6 (STRength/ AGIlity/ COOrdination/ PERception/ INTelligence/ WILlpower).  There are some derived stats, I think.  FS has something called "Benefits," which seem akin to an Edge/Virtue/Advantage/Feat system (I have not actually gotten the book(s); I am just reporting from the DwD website, and a skimming a few reviews).

It all strikes me as eminently usable content to borrow for your own BRP games (and equally, most BRP-engine resources should need little-to-no adaptation to run under the d00Lite engine).

 

FWIW and all that...
 

Edited January 23, 2022 by g33k

[Atgxtg]

On 1/23/2022 at 3:50 PM, g33k said:

Necro/Update:

The mechanics I was recalling (above) -- or perhaps better to say trying to recall -- were "d00Lite" from DwD Studios.  Skills are roll-low on d100; the roll is read as 00low - 99high (instead of 01low-100high); doubles are crit/fumble.  (I hesitate to say it, but... I kinda think this is... better than BRP...  Except that I really LOVE the "Special" result, intermediate between a "normal" hit and a "critical."  I am considering whether/how to use the d00Lite method in place of core RQ/BRP in my RQG (!) )

You might be interested in HARN's game mechanics, too. In HARN any roll than ends in "0" or "5" is a critical (either a critical success or a critical fumble).

 

A nice thing about that, is that it could easily be expanded to have multiple success levels without any sort of table. For instance rolls than end in "1"  could be criticals, rolls than ends in "2" or "3"  specials and anything ending in "4" or higher a normal success/failure. Note that the actual ranges could be adjusted (i.e. "1" or "2" a critical) , as could the number of success levels , or the ranking flipped around  (i.e. "9s" could be crtis instead of "1s"). The could really make it easier to do opposed rolls and success levels with d100 and eliminate a table at the same time.