AikiGhost Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Just wondering if anyone is using WFRP (2nd edition) style fate points in BRP? It being such a deadly system I feel that fate points can add some much needed survivability to high fantasy and pulp/Space Opera games. Thoughts, additions, abuse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickMiddleton Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Just wondering if anyone is using WFRP (2nd edition) style fate points in BRP? It being such a deadly system I feel that fate points can add some much needed survivability to high fantasy and pulp/Space Opera games. Thoughts, additions, abuse? Personally I'm not a huge fan of Fate / Hero points. If lethality is a concern I tweak other rules (THP = CON + SIZ; use MWL not hit locations; trading FP for HP after a fight, using a single die DB table...) rather than use a hero point system. Cheers, Nick Middleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 My players love them. It's all a matter of taste, I suppose. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloster Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 My players love them. It's all a matter of taste, I suppose. Yes. I hate them. Some of my co-players love them. Our RQ GM has not yet made his mind, but I don't think he will use. Runequestement votre, Kloster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason D Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Just wondering if anyone is using WFRP (2nd edition) style fate points in BRP? It being such a deadly system I feel that fate points can add some much needed survivability to high fantasy and pulp/Space Opera games. Thoughts, additions, abuse? Page 176 of the BRP book is devoted to an option called "Fate Points". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiGhost Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Page 176 of the BRP book is devoted to an option called "Fate Points". Ooh, cool. Can you say any more? In WFRP for example You have FATE points which are single use and basically allow you to survive a lethal encounter or accident (You get knocked unconscious and wake up in the bushes hours later or whatever is appropriate). Usually you have about 2 or 3 of these at character generation and it is very rare to get any more of them. But you also have fortune points which allow you to re roll failed tests etc, fortune points are equal to the number of current FATE points your PC has remaining and they recharge once per adventure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason D Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Ooh, cool. Can you say any more? Fate points (in BRP) are new, and utilize existing power points (not characteristic POW). Enabling fate points allows a character to spend several power points* to call for a reroll, or to attempt (with the GM's permission) a roll of fate (Luck) instead of a skill roll, and to soak up damage points. There are other suggested optional means the GM may allow. Some of these are shifting the result of an existing roll (along the fumble > failure > success > special success > critical success track), maximizing the amount of damage you do with a weapon, and manipulating or introducing plot/background elements at a variable cost as approved by the GM. One of the examples I give for the last one is if you're scrambling around looking for a weapon, you might spend power points equal to the weapon's normal total damage to find something suitable (a dagger would cost 6 points for the 1d4+2 range). * The acronym of PP was unfortunate, so they're power points throughout the manuscript. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atgxtg Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Fate points (in BRP) are new, and utilize existing power points (not characteristic POW). Interesting. Enabling fate points allows a character to spend several power points* to call for a reroll, or to attempt (with the GM's permission) a roll of fate (Luck) instead of a skill roll, and to soak up damage points. Hey, that makes the Luck roll actually useful. In the past stat rolls didn;t come up much, since there was usually something else to roll. There are other suggested optional means the GM may allow. Some of these are shifting the result of an existing roll (along the fumble > failure > success > special success > critical success track), maximizing the amount of damage you do with a weapon, and manipulating or introducing plot/background elements at a variable cost as approved by the GM. Oh, boy the James Bond 007 method... and in BRP. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK Games Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Berlin '61 has a Fate Point system, but its more based on the lines of Hero Points from DC Heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiGhost Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Berlin '61 has a Fate Point system, but its more based on the lines of Hero Points from DC Heroes. So what is "berlin 61" and how does it implement FPs exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trifletraxor Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 So what is "berlin 61" and how does it implement FPs exactly? We have a thread about it: http://basicroleplaying.com/forum/basic-roleplaying/236-berlin-61-has-anyone-seen.html SGL. Quote Ef plest master, this mighty fine grub! 116/420. High Priest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simlasa Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I haven't used them, and never liked them... but I've heard/read of people using them in ways that were 'in story'... such as saying they represent a tremendous effort and applying them PRE-ROLL to actions the character would think were particularly important... more like 'betting' on the stuff you care about ahead of time rather then waiting till you mess up. That always sounded kind of reasonable to me... and I've considered trying such things (but haven't yet). I REALLY dislike the idea of re-rolling or any other sort of revisionist actions though... so even if I were to try using them I'd never use them to allow roll-overs. To me it disrupts the flow of the story... 'You swing at the goblin and miss' 'No I don't, I use a fate point' 'Ok... you hit the goblin' etc. Luckily none of the guys I play with seem all that keen on them either... One of the guys, when he GMs, runs WFRP... and we have them in there but for whatever reason they don't come out much... maybe because it seems to fit the setting to fail/die in lots of horrible and ridiculous ways. All that being said, and as we established on these forums a while back... neither I nor most anyone else seems to have a problem with them being in the BRP book... AS AN OPTION. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiGhost Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 I REALLY dislike the idea of re-rolling or any other sort of revisionist actions though... so even if I were to try using them I'd never use them to allow roll-overs. To me it disrupts the flow of the story... 'You swing at the goblin and miss' 'No I don't, I use a fate point' 'Ok... you hit the goblin' etc. ok so how this works in reality is. Player one: Rolls to hit and misses. Player One: "I spend a fate point" Player one: Re-rolls and either hits or misses. Gm: narrates result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simlasa Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Maybe so... still feels wrong... maybe cause in my head, once the dice roll... that's it... the thing happened. If, supposedly, fate points are there for storytelling purposes... so the character doesn't fail when, in dramatic arc of the story, he should succeed... then it seems the point should be spent in ANTICIPATION of that dramatic moment when he finally gets to take a swing at the arch-villain... rather than after having botched it. The whole re-do thing just 'feels' less heroic... to me and mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogspawner Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 The whole re-do thing just 'feels' less heroic... to me and mine. And to me. It detracts from the feeling that your dice-rolls are your character's sword-swipes. And a bit too much like anyone having Divine Intervention available at will merely for (non-permanent) Pow! At least it's just an (ignorable) option. But - does anyone think the lethality of combat requires some mechanism like Fate Points? Quote Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atgxtg Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I do like the idea of spending pint to alter the success levels though. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogspawner Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Even to alter it from failure to success? Quote Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atgxtg Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Even to alter it from failure to success? Yes. It worked great in other RPGs. They key it to give it limits, which the POW points would do. It is really help for smaller groups too, where one bad roll can throw the whole group into the lion's den. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simlasa Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I like the lethality of BRP combat... if I wanted a game that 'pulled it's punches' I'm sure I could find one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atgxtg Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I like the lethality of BRP combat... if I wanted a game that 'pulled it's punches' I'm sure I could find one. I can understand that, but. depending on how it is done, it doen't really pull punches that much. In fact, in some ways it allows the GM to use bigger fists. A lot of critters have somewhat over done damage bonuses. Not that it is a problem, since all such options are just that, options. It's not like they are being forced on us. Those who like them can use them. Those who don't, wont. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simlasa Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 If I wanted to play in a game that let me effect the odds that way I might be inclined towards a system somewhat like what I've seen in some MMORPGs I've played... such as in City Of Heroes... where you have a bank of 'Inspirations' that you get randomly while playing. They come in different 'flavors'... some beef up your damage, some increase your defence or give you HP. When you're headed towards a difficult fight you can pop as many as you have available to juice up for the battle. I'd make them have some sort of in-game relevance... such as being magic tokens... or combat drugs... or over-clocking my bionics... something. Still not what I want in most of my games... but I can see it working in a 4 color superhero game... or something really cinematic. As long as it's not post-roll revisionist metagaming... which is how re-rolls feel to me... I'd get along with em fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atgxtg Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 If I wanted to play in a game that let me effect the odds that way I might be inclined towards a system somewhat like what I've seen in some MMORPGs I've played... such as in City Of Heroes... where you have a bank of 'Inspirations' that you get randomly while playing. They come in different 'flavors'... some beef up your damage, some increase your defence or give you HP. When you're headed towards a difficult fight you can pop as many as you have available to juice up for the battle. I'd make them have some sort of in-game relevance... such as being magic tokens... or combat drugs... or over-clocking my bionics... something. Still not what I want in most of my games... but I can see it working in a 4 color superhero game... or something really cinematic. As long as it's not post-roll revisionist metagaming... which is how re-rolls feel to me... I'd get along with em fine. I think it depends on just how much tweaking someone can do. For instance in some games you can do it with points, but the points don't come back, limited just how often you can pull a rabbit out of your hat. For instance the Bond RPG had that, but you never really had "enough" points to do what yo wanted. But in that game the odds were more heavily stacked against you than in BRP, so it worked out. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simlasa Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Yeah, I'd think they oughtta be precious enough as a commodity that people weren't tossing them around for every little challenge... that they saved them for the BIG STUFF. Don't the WFRP fortune points respawn every day? That's how we've played it but since we haven't used the points much I'm not sure... anyway... that seems a bit... loose... to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atgxtg Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Yeah, I'd think they oughtta be precious enough as a commodity that people weren't tossing them around for every little challenge... that they saved them for the BIG STUFF. Don't the WFRP fortune points respawn every day? That's how we've played it but since we haven't used the points much I'm not sure... anyway... that seems a bit... loose... to me. Don't know about WFRP. When it first came out, I didn't like it. It just look lie yet another attempt to sell lead. But, a few games do have the replenishing points (Star Wars d6), and yeah, it can get a bit too much. What I liked about Bond was that once you used them they were gone, although you could earn more in play. Generally the players would be torn between spending them to look cool, or saving them for when they needed them. Typically they'd go for a little of both, and that was just about right to both have fun AND maintain tension. But BRP supposedly has something like a half dozen differernt ways to do it, or not. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simlasa Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 How did you gain them in the James Bond game? Did they have some sort of in-game rationale or where they purely meta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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