Seeking Stats: Any BRP Will Do

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

So I am working on my new campaign and I find myself needing various monsters/adversaries to confront my players with, here's what I am seeking, if you can point me to a book/resource where I can find that;

• Barbarian Horsemen Raiders

• Various undead warriors/monsters

• Witches, all sorts

• Demons, devils, possessed creatures/people

• Neanderthals

• General soldiers, mercenaries, knights, etc...

Thanks in advance!

BE HEROIC!

[DreadDomain]

10 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

So I am working on my new campaign and I find myself needing various monsters/adversaries to confront my players with, here's what I am seeking, if you can point me to a book/resource where I can find that;

• Barbarian Horsemen Raiders

• Various undead warriors/monsters

• Witches, all sorts

• Demons, devils, possessed creatures/people

• Neanderthals

• General soldiers, mercenaries, knights, etc...

Thanks in advance!

BE HEROIC!

The Big Golden Book may have what you need with a selection of beasts, creatures (elementals, angels, demons, ghouls, skeletons, mummies, ghosts, vampires, werewolves, zombies, etc.) and generic NPC (including knight, ninja, pirate, policeman, soldier, tribal warrior, Viking, galactic knight, thug, maniac, spy, criminal mastermind, priest, mutant, psychic, sorcerer, etc)

[DreadDomain]

Actually, what could also be useful for you are Cthulhu Dark Age, Pulp Cthulhu and the Malleus Montrorum.

MM Volume 1 has a chapter of folklore monsters (golems, undeads, lake monsters, man-eating plants, werewolves, etc), another one on normal beasts and animals and the section on mythos creatures could quite literally be repurporsed as demons and other evil entities.

Pulp Cthulhu chapter 9 has a selection of generic NPC which won't be of much use in a fantasy game (cops, federal agents, journalists, etc), pulp monsters (evil spirit, robots, velociraptor). What I find more useful are the listed pulp vilains. Although they are named vilains, they all come with a useful tag (criminal masternind, underground mystic, typical thug, insane murderer, vigilante, etc.) so they can easily be used more generically. Most have ulp talents, some have spells, some have psychic abilities). 

For something more fantasy related Cthulhu Dark Age chapter 7 has a bestiary but also chapters 8 and onwards describes a town with a few scenarios. All of these chapters have NPCs that can be used generically or are generic (viking raider, cymric warrior, monk, cultists, etc...)

Edited November 7, 2021 by DreadDomain

[Zit]

18 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

• Barbarian Horsemen Raiders

 

for these ones I'd be happy to recommand Wind on the Steppes, but it is (currently) not available anymore. But I should have some pre-rolled characters somewhere.

(edit : I found something) the Hanging Garden issue 1, a scenario with steppe nomads: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B38L7pFLFTy7c3hTN3RtS0ptMEU/edit?resourcekey=0-ZvHnE2uD5jyyYeRALz6fyw

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Zit

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

Thank you guys! So helpful and useful.

One of the MANY reasons I prefer this community to the D&D ones (5e and OSR) lol

Cheers!

[Joerg]

23 hours ago, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

Barbarian Horsemen Raiders

The RQ3 Viking Box has an encounter in the Russian river valleys with quite a few stats. It also has Frankish knights, which may serve as a different kind of barbarians, too.

That encounter booklet has helped me through several years of GMing RQ3.

[Ian Absentia]

On 11/6/2021 at 9:26 AM, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

• Neanderthals

Standard Human stats in every way.  Except, perhaps, EDU if you're using it.  Resist the urge to treat Neanderthals as "monsters" -- they're people, not orcs.  The BGB "Primitive" (p.365) is probably your go-to for stats and skill set, though it still has its problematic assumptions (like the plural of shaman 😅).

!i!

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

5 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

Standard Human stats in every way.  Except, perhaps, EDU if you're using it.  Resist the urge to treat Neanderthals as "monsters" -- they're people, not orcs.  The BGB "Primitive" (p.365) is probably your go-to for stats and skill set, though it still has its problematic assumptions (like the plural of shaman 😅).

!i!

You're right, they are not orcs, but they are part of my setting in conflict with the civilized areas, as well as Cro-Mags, and other hominids. 🙂

Thanks for the info 🙂

[Mark Mohrfield]

On 11/7/2021 at 12:42 PM, Ian Absentia said:

Standard Human stats in every way.  Except, perhaps, EDU if you're using it.  Resist the urge to treat Neanderthals as "monsters" -- they're people, not orcs.

!i!

That’s not incompatible with giving them somewhat different stats from modern humans.

[Mugen]

On 11/7/2021 at 6:42 PM, Ian Absentia said:

Standard Human stats in every way.  Except, perhaps, EDU if you're using it.  Resist the urge to treat Neanderthals as "monsters" -- they're people, not orcs.  The BGB "Primitive" (p.365) is probably your go-to for stats and skill set, though it still has its problematic assumptions (like the plural of shaman 😅).

!i!

Homo Neandertalensis and Homo Sapiens are two different species, so I think it's perfectly fine to give them different physical characteristics, even though it's very difficult to judge their INT.

Cro-Magnons, and other Early Modern Humans , on the other hand, are not different from modern humans from a genetical point of view, and should get the same stats except EDU.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Mugen

[soltakss]

On 11/7/2021 at 5:42 PM, Ian Absentia said:

On 11/6/2021 at 4:26 PM, Zenith Comics Presents... said:

• Neanderthals

Standard Human stats in every way.  Except, perhaps, EDU if you're using it.  Resist the urge to treat Neanderthals as "monsters" -- they're people, not orcs.  The BGB "Primitive" (p.365) is probably your go-to for stats and skill set, though it still has its problematic assumptions (like the plural of shaman 😅).

In Land of Ice and Stone, I have Neanderthals, or Red Men, as having slightly different stats to humans. All of the cultures in that are variations of Primitive.

[Atgxtg]

On 11/8/2021 at 12:55 PM, Mugen said:

Homo Neandertalensis and Homo Sapiens are two different species, so I think it's perfectly fine to give them different physical characteristics, even though it's very difficult to judge their INT.

RQ products have even given slightly different stats to groups within  the same species. Specifically the modifiers for Vikings, and Japanese for  RQ3., and the various modifiers by nation for early editions of Stormbringer. 

On 11/8/2021 at 12:55 PM, Mugen said:

Cro-Magnons, and other Early Modern Humans , on the other hand, are not different from modern humans from a genetical point of view, and should get the same stats except EDU.

They might even have slightly better physical stats, not because of genetics but because of lifestyle and diet. They have to go out and hunt and don't sit at a desk all day or eat fast food. Plus without the benefits of modern medicine the ones with low CON stats probably won't make it to adulthood. So those who do survive are probably in somewhat better shape than the typical modern human. At least until they get sick, break a bone or some such.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Atgxtg

[Al.]

On 11/7/2021 at 5:42 PM, Ian Absentia said:

Standard Human stats in every way.  Except, perhaps, EDU if you're using it.  Resist the urge to treat Neanderthals as "monsters" -- they're people, not orcs.  The BGB "Primitive" (p.365) is probably your go-to for stats and skill set, though it still has its problematic assumptions (like the plural of shaman 😅).

!i!

Dave Morris (of Dragon Warriors and early White Dwarf fame) wrote a really interesting adventure where the 'Orcs' were actually Neanderthal survivors; ostracised, bullied, killed for their Exp and their stuff by humans.

[Ian Absentia]

3 minutes ago, Al. said:

Dave Morris (of Dragon Warriors and early White Dwarf fame) wrote a really interesting adventure where the 'Orcs' were actually Neanderthal survivors; ostracised, bullied, killed for their Exp and their stuff by humans.

Kiril Eskov, in his deconstruction of Tolkien, The Last Ring Bearer, presents the term "orc" as a typical dehumanisation of another human cultural enemy.

As I've stated elsewhere, like the status of the planet Pluto, the affinity of Neanderthals to modern humans has gone up and down the disciplinary score card according to prevailing opinions, and in several instances evident bigotries, in the scientific community.  At the practical level of RPGs, they're just other people, unless one intends to treat other people as monsters as Eskov suggests.

If we must differentiate Neanderthals, I suggest granting them psychic powers and flying saucers.

!I!

[Atgxtg]

57 minutes ago, Al. said:

Dave Morris (of Dragon Warriors and early White Dwarf fame) wrote a really interesting adventure where the 'Orcs' were actually Neanderthal survivors; ostracised, bullied, killed for their Exp and their stuff by humans.

The Fantasy Trip did something similar with Orcs being a form of prehistoric human.

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

What I am doing in my setting is having no "non-humans" essentially. No elves, dwarves, goblins, orcs, etc... outside of mythological.

But I am having different types of Hominids around the setting.

Beast Men (what humans call them): Basically Neanderthals
Giants:  Basically Denisovans
Halflings: Basically Homo floresienis
Nature Loving Tribals "Humans": Basically Cro-Magons

Monsters in the setting are less "species" like in D&D, and more "individuals" or "small groups" like in Grecian Myth or Arthurian legends.

Hence my looking for stats on these things, to save myself some heavy lifting if they already exist in published BRP material.

🙂 

[g33k]

On 11/8/2021 at 9:55 AM, Mugen said:

Homo Neandertalensis and Homo Sapiens are two different species, so I think it's perfectly fine to give them different physical characteristics, even though it's very difficult to judge their INT.

Given that there's clear sign of Neandertal or Denisovan DNA in most modern humans, I can't see calling them any more than a "subspecies" (interbreeding with fertile offspring being one of the key "same-species" points).

But, as noted, species' regional variations and "subspecies" gives quite a lot of range; so I'd feel free to vary SIZ & STR.

I'd be *much* more reluctant to vary human INT... the racist history there is fraught.

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

I'd be *much* more reluctant to vary human INT... the racist history there is fraught.

Yeah, although it can be done depending on context and cultures. For instace in RQ3 Mythic Europe I could see giving Greeks a higher INT, not because they were smarter, but because they were seen as more learned due to all the Greek accomplishments in the sciences and arts. Basically mixing INT a little with EDU. But that would only make sense in the Greco-Roman era. A similar thing could be said for the Viking SIZ modifier. They were considered big compared to Romans, but not so much in modern day.

 

I think any such modifiers come down to context. You could give each culture their own perks and it could all work out. 

[Ian Absentia]

I ain't no mod, but the moment we start discussing "species" and "subspecies" relative to humanity, I need to:

a) Acknowledge that I started us down this path;
b) Assert that I've made exactly my point; and,
c) Suggest that we tap the brakes on the subject.

Mea culpa.

!i!

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

42 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

I ain't no mod, but the moment we start discussing "species" and "subspecies" relative to humanity, I need to:

a) Acknowledge that I started us down this path;
b) Assert that I've made exactly my point; and,
c) Suggest that we tap the brakes on the subject.

Mea culpa.

!i!

Appreciated 🙂

So is there a "cave man" version of BRP out there somewhere?

BE HEROIC!

[Ian Absentia]

@soltakss noted his book for Legend up above:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/139266/Legend-Land-of-Ice-and-Stone

Not exactly BRP, but d100 and a kissing cousin.

!i!

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

On 11/9/2021 at 4:16 AM, soltakss said:

In Land of Ice and Stone, I have Neanderthals, or Red Men, as having slightly different stats to humans. All of the cultures in that are variations of Primitive.

Sorry I missed this one!

Thanks to Ian Absentia for pointing out the miss. 🙂

[Mugen]

9 hours ago, g33k said:

Given that there's clear sign of Neandertal or Denisovan DNA in most modern humans, I can't see calling them any more than a "subspecies" (interbreeding with fertile offspring being one of the key "same-species" points).

But, as noted, species' regional variations and "subspecies" gives quite a lot of range; so I'd feel free to vary SIZ & STR.

I'd be *much* more reluctant to vary human INT... the racist history there is fraught.

Some very close species can mate and have fertile offsprings, like a good number of "canis" species. Wolfves and dogs, of course, but also jackals and other species. Female ligers (the hybrid of a female lion and a male tiger) are also fertile, but it's not the kind of union you can see in nature, and the result of human experimentation.

As for INT, I fully agree with you, and I've already written it.

Also, I want to make it clear : saying that there were co-existing different human species in the past doesn't mean that one of those was superior to others. It's also a situation that has never occured in tens of thousands of years. All humans who have been living kn this planet belong to one single species, there's no discussion on this subject.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Mugen

[Zenith Comics Presents...]

Can we all stop this conversation? Please?

I just wanted stats for BRP games, not a bloody debate about the nature of humanity.

[g33k]

On 11/14/2021 at 4:13 PM, Atgxtg said:

... I could see giving Greeks a higher INT, not because they were smarter, but because they were seen as more learned due to all the Greek accomplishments in the sciences and arts. Basically mixing INT a little with EDU ...

"EDU" is a sort of broad catch-all stat that substitutes-in for a huge array of (largely academic) skills -- or vice versa.

Simulate "EDU" in a version of BRP (that doesn't have it) by using the skills directly -- high scores in Read/Write, in Mathematics, in Other Languages, in Archaeology, in Civil Engineering, in Literature, etc etc etc.

Overall, I tend to prefer the more-granular skills.  All characters with "EDU 17" are obviously *HIGHLY* educated, but... honestly, kinda same-y.
(JRR Tolkein had an EDU of 19+, and so did Albert Einstein... were they "same-y"???)

===

As to the OP's quest for stats...  My best understanding of Neanderthal suggests they were a bit shorter, overall, with heavier skull.
+1 STR, -1  MOV, 1 AP on the head, done.

Remember, though -- you AREN'T accurately modelling "Homo neanderthalensis", you're defining a RPG creature that happens to be "a bit neanderthal-ish."