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What Would Happen if an Initiate of Uleria Got Pregnant?


Ryan Kent

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19 hours ago, Alex said:

"Bearer of the Life rune" seems a little over-worked, for me.  As Greater Gods go, she's very small beer these days.  If she's notionally the same as the Celestial Court divinity, she's farmed out a lot of the heavy-lifting, especially to various Earth goddesses.  Of the three third-of-a-lemon minor subcults welded lightly together) yes, one of them is on those lines.  (Going by the RQ3 writeup, CoG might vary from that in either direction.)  Though Reproduce very much seems to assume a willing "target".  Community, Erotocomatose Lucidity, and the Courtesan skill aren't really concerned with that at all.

As you say, she farmed out the heavy lifting to the earth rune girls and kept all the fun bits for herself.  I'm sure the later generations of deities were constantly rolling their eyes at the original rune holders and how damn irresponsible they were.😁

19 hours ago, Alex said:

Yes reputedly both, as I understand it.  Not medically verifiable due to lack of much in the way of double-blind randomised clinical trials at the time, and as it's not known what it was (or is).  But on the face of it plausible if it was oestrogenic and taken in sufficient quantities.  Mythically it's a gift from Apollo -- surely a major Life Rune deity in anyone's money.  (After a little bit of alternate-reality currency exchange, admittedly.

Agreed.  Today we know that various species of sylphium work as both.  They likely knew by trial and error back in the day, and would have credited a deity no doubt, as you suggest.

19 hours ago, Alex said:

However, what's "another matter entirely" is...  another matter entirely!  Gloranthan deities aren't known for their 'you have have "some power", but not too much approach.  If rampant fertility is a Ulerian cult virtue, are her priestesses (of that particular subcult) being impious by using birth control?  And are we reasoning from Bronze-Age knowledge and sensibilities?  Or from high fantasy runic-deterministic ones?  Because those might be very different.  Is the sharp dividing line between prior and "emergency" contraception?  Or between before conception and after?  Or before implantation, and after that?  (The most usual scientific definition being the last of these, but even that's rather variable.)  Before we even get into historical concepts like "quickening" or other such notions of late-breaking ensoulment.  And I mention this not out of any interest in arguing which is the "correct" take, but to point out what a sensibilities minefield that potentially is, too.

Yes, I freely admit that your interpretation is perfectly reasonable Alex.  The reason why I think that contraception would be a substantial factor is that prostitutes were pioneers in birth control, historically speaking, and with excellent economic motivation.  Uleria is a party girl imo, and I'm sure that she wouldn't mind if girls wanting to have fun didn't have it ruined by a perpetual litter of kids.  No doubt the more fanatical Ulerians wouldn't see it that way.  Anyhow, what's she gonna do about it?  Curse you with infertility?

19 hours ago, Alex said:

I believe UK case law would disagree with you there, where this is a deliberate act contrary to the wishes of the other party.  I'll grant you that concerned "stealthy" condom-removal and not non-consensual use of fertility magic, so the comparison isn't exact.  But that's inevitably true in both directions.  Given that the PC "very interested in invoking Storm Bull during the "ritual" and having little Storm bull babies", I don't believe this is accurately describable as "accidental" in any way.  Whether it teeters over into "chaotic" one might argue either way.

Well idk the details of what our bad boy stormbull did exactly, but Stormbull has a disorder rune, not a chaos rune, and sometimes it is hard to tell the difference between the two.  As to UK law, I hope the matter of proving intent is central to the crime, as our Stormbull is definitely guilty if that is the case.

19 hours ago, Alex said:

I've not suggested any retconning of those matters.  (Indeed, just the opposite, though the least said about that other thread...)  Not that there's one single "definitive" myth in the publication history either.  CoT doesn't have any version of this at all.  I'm not sure off the top of my head which telling of the Thed myth you're referring to, but it sounds within the range of variation.  KoS refers to "[Orlanth's] brother", and I think the phrase "sometimes called the kinsman of Storm Bull" could be hinting at the same thing.  Or implying Ragnaglar is more closely related to Urox than to Orlanthi (a full rather than a half brother, perhaps?).  Or this is the Orlanth-cult version of the tale, and "kin of Storm Bull" is more palatable than "of Orlanth".  And the myth are undoubtedly multiple even (or especially) in Glorantha.

There is actually such a myth written up in Book of Drastic Revelations, and it names Stormbull, but it could feasibly also be Ragnaglar given his failed initiation in the Sex Pit that drove him mad.  I suspect that the real answer depends upon who is hero questing at the time.

19 hours ago, Alex said:

My questions are rather, is this something people really want to foreground in play?  And especially, is this something we want to portray as being fine, dandy, and attracting no adverse consequences?  And what exactly is the OP seeking input on, anyway?  How grimdark their table experience is, and quite how tough a gig it might be for NPCs, is of course entirely up to them.

 Agreed.

19 hours ago, Alex said:

If one is looking for some Lore options to tone this down a tad, note that the Storm Bull has a whole lot of "seducer" form.  So obtaining the prior consent of the Ulerian (or more dubiously, getting it after the fact) is a mythically congruent choice.

I think Stormbull has a bonus with regards to animal rune goddessses, but others are a lot less interested in his form of 'seduction'.  As for getting Uleria's consent, seriously?  When doesn't she?

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On 11/23/2021 at 9:19 PM, Ryan Kent said:

What if it happened as part of the ritual performed with visitors to the temple?

Hallelujah! Uleria has blessed her worshipper with new life.

On 11/23/2021 at 9:19 PM, Ryan Kent said:

What would the Initiate's options be?

Give birth to the blessed baby.

On 11/23/2021 at 9:19 PM, Ryan Kent said:

Are there cult restrictions?

Not that I know of.

On 11/23/2021 at 9:19 PM, Ryan Kent said:

Does the father have any say?

If the baby was conceived during temple worship, then who is to say who the father is?

If the father can prove they are the father, then perhaps they have rights.

Otherwise, it is a Temple Baby and will be reared by the initiate, or by the temple.

Generally, if you are an Initiate of Uleria then you value life and procreation above everything else. Sure, Love is there as well, but procreation if foremost.

On 11/23/2021 at 9:45 PM, Ryan Kent said:

Hmmm... Any other ideas?  I assume Uleria forbids abortions unless chaos is involved, but not sure. 

Ulerians would be against abortion, as it goes against their cult beliefs.

On 11/23/2021 at 9:45 PM, Ryan Kent said:

As context, it was the Temple to Uleria in Apple Lane.  An intitiate of Storm Bull was visiting.  Something happened during the "ritual" and he channeled Storm Bull and overcame the magic preventing pregnancy.

In that case, the father could try to exercise rights over the baby. If it is magical in nature, so perhaps a Minotaur, then it would be more obvious who the father is.

 

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I think getting caught up in the moment and conceiving a child in an impromptu This World heroquest without having specifically planned on such is likely an implicit risk of both serving at or frequenting an Uleria temple. I don't think an opposed roll contest for a situation like that was a good way to handle it though, as it starts to look like coercion, even if that's not what anyone at the table had in mind. Best to frame the contest in explicitly not-rapey terms. Setting out to <ahem>bull your way through your partner's contraception magic: Not a good look. Embodying Storm Bull's epic virility to such a compelling degree that the Ulerian partner decides to forgo contraception magic and accept what he's offering because sometimes that's what Fertility is all about and this is a prime opportunity to fully embody the goddess: Praise Uleria!

 

As an aside, I much prefer Eternal Battle over Death for Storm Bull in no small part because he has a Fertility aspect as the great father of Waha and all the Praxian Founders. That goes double if you want to go full  God Learner and say he and Bisos are the same being. (I lean more towards different facets of the same jewel - related yet distinct expressions of a common underlying archetype, much as I see Elmal and Yelmalio. Let's not dive into that mess in this thread though.) Death's opposed rune is Fertility, while Eternal Battle opposes Chaos.

Edited by JonL
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17 minutes ago, JonL said:

I think getting caught up in the moment and conceiving a child in an impromptu This World heroquest without having specifically planned on such is likely an implicit risk of both serving at or frequenting an Uleria temple. I don't think an opposed roll contest for a situation like that was a good way to handle it though, as it starts to look like coercion, even if that's not what anyone at the table had in mind. Best to frame the contest in explicitly not-rapey terms. Setting out to <ahem>bull your way through your partner's contraception magic: Not a good look. Embodying Storm Bull's epic virility to such a compelling degree that the Ulerian partner decides to forgo contraception magic and accept what he's offering because sometimes that's what Fertility is all about and this is a prime opportunity to embody it: Praise Uleria!

I've been trying to work out how better to phrase the exchange being described in this thread, and this I think is the right direction.  The resistance roll in this situation represents a test of how impressed Uleria is with Storm Bull, via their mortal proxies.  Success for the Storm Bull worshiper means that the goddess was sufficiently enthused by his performance to answer it in a deeply personal and permanent fashion, for all mortals involved.

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