Characteristic increase maximum ?

[Mugen]

Can you find the 21 limit in the RQ3 rules?

I looked, but found not such limit mentioned in the RQ3 rule books. The section of training makes it clear that STR, CON ans SIZ are limted to the highest of the three (SIZ can't be raised), and that DEX and APP can be trained to one a a half times their original value. No mention is made that 21 is the cap.

Perhaps you are familiar with another incarnation of BRP that used the old RQ2 limits? I think early editions of CoC did.

You're right, there are no such rules in RQ3 except for POW.

It seems that I made a wrong assumption 20 years ago and never took the time to read the rule again

[Atgxtg]

You're right, there are no such rules in RQ3 except for POW.

It seems that I made a wrong assumption 20 years ago and never took the time to read the rule again

I suspect you make a "rule crossover". Since there are several similar but not identical sets of RQ related RPGs (CoC, Stormbinger, Elric!) it is very possible (and easy) to see something in one system and accidentally port it over to another related one. Especially since 90% of the rules between the systems are compatible.

I know I've done it with BRP a few times.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

One of the things I NEVER understood, if your physical attributes are limited to 21 (human limit) but yet you also can't increase your attribute above the highest of your Str, Con, or Siz rolled at character creation.... how can ANY human get to a 21? Speaking specifically of RQ here.

If the answer is 'magic', then I'd argue that such would allow you to overcome maximums.

You're really talking about RQ2 specifically, because that's where the 21 maximum comes from (RQ3 coincidentally has the same for POW, but the formula is different). But for RQ2, you're right. You can't ever reach past 18 in STR or CON as a human. The rule kicks in with, say, a dwarf who got lucky and rolled 24 for his STR - he's still limited to a maximum of CON 21 (2D6+6: max roll 18 + 2 dice +1 add = 21). Now, in RQ3 there is no upper limit for STR or CON, other than the highest of STR, CON and SIZ. That's why you can get superstrong halflings if they get lucky with their CON roll of 2D6+12.

Incidentally, that's another thing which changed from RQ2 to RQ3 - CON. In RQ2, for pretty much all creatures, it topped out at CON 18. RQ3 goes much higher in some cases.

[Atgxtg]

You're really talking about RQ2 specifically, because that's where the 21 maximum comes from (RQ3 coincidentally has the same for POW, but the formula is different). But for RQ2, you're right. You can't ever reach past 18 in STR or CON as a human.

Unless there was some sort of add that kicked in. In RQ2 this might have meant HeroQuesting. Or, it might have applied to battlemagic. I'd have to pull out my RQ2 book to check.

The rule kicks in with, say, a dwarf who got lucky and rolled 24 for his STR - he's still limited to a maximum of CON 21 (2D6+6: max roll 18 + 2 dice +1 add = 21).

No. The rule was that the limit was Min+max. So a dwarf that rolled 2d6+6 would have a min score of 8 and a max of 18 for a max possible CON of 26. (min+max or 8+18)

That is why adds made such a big difference in the old system, and probably why the "min-max" formula was dropped in RQ3.

Now, in RQ3 there is no upper limit for STR or CON, other than the highest of STR, CON and SIZ. That's why you can get superstrong halflings if they get lucky with their CON roll of 2D6+12.

Yup. And that was a potential problem in RQ3. In actual play it was a non-problem as the training time to accomplish such a task is probably longer than a halfling's lifespan. Especially since most of the training is going to have to be dome though the less reliable research method (they are no humans who have trained thier STR up 10 points).

[Guest Vile Traveller]

Nononono ... min + max only happened in RQ3, and only for POW. RQ2 used a different formula for species maximum:

(Number of dice rolled) + (maximum possible score) + (1 for any amount of add)

So 2D6+6 is still a maximum of 21: 2 + 18 + 1

[Nightshade]

They aren't necessarily contradictory; in some versions of RQ, it was pretty much like Solkass says; racial maximum was an absolute maximum (the 21 for humans) but individuals could be limited lower; half again for Dex and App, the highest of Str, Con and Siz rolled for Str and Con.

I just wish they had listed what's assumed to be the standard for racial maximums for nonhumans.

[Adam France]

I use a human maximum of 21, with starting characters having a starting max of 18. With heroic type campaigns (D&D, Star Wars, etc) I give each stat, except SIZE, a percentile amount under the 3-18, which advances at D6 per adventure, to allow some slow advancement of attributes over time, with the character gaining an extra point each time they pass 100%, up to a theoretical max of 21.