Death and Dying

[Daxos232]

My group and I were discussing how we wanted to handle death and dying in our games. We didn't think it would be fair to have no chance to be resurrected, and yet we didn't want people to just die and not worry about it because they can just be raised by a resurrection spell. People who keep dying should eventually die permanently for their mistakes.

So the idea we had was that you'd have to bring the person's corpse somewhere, have it all intact and reattach any limbs etc, and then do the spell. At this point the character has to challenge death to some form of contest to earn their way back into their body. In the spirit plane or whatever, the character could do any kind of challenge with death, like having a footrace or crafting a better item. Probably the most straightforward way would be to fight death in combat on the spirit plane.

Death would have skills equal to the character, and if challenging him in combat he would use similar equipment and stats. But after the first time you die, death would gain a cumulative +10% or +20% bonus to his skills thus eventually putting the odds in his favor should someone die a lot.

I wanted to see what other people might think about that idea and how others choose to handle it.

[Thalaba]

I think that sounds like a really interesting way to handle it. I might force it to be a combat, but I think that depends on the culture/gameworld and what makes sense. I like the metaphor of 'fighting for your life'.

Personally, I like Ressurection to be very rare and for there to be a significant cost to those practising the ritual so they seriously weigh if it's worth it before starting.

In another thread I once posited this:

I think there is room for a Ressurection ritual. I think it should be quite costly - maybe even requiring someone to sacrifice other characteristics - say a total adding up to the sum of the characteristics the original character had. I'm picturing a whole village trying to ressurect a hero, wherein each villager sacrifices a point or more of a characteristic until all the points add up to the individual characteristics of the deceased. The spell should also have other expensive or hard-to-get ingredients.

[Daxos232]

We liked our idea because it's possible to beat death but eventually you would have no chance to beat him, thus making players think carefully before doing anything stupid, lol.

I think there is room for a Ressurection ritual. I think it should be quite costly - maybe even requiring someone to sacrifice other characteristics - say a total adding up to the sum of the characteristics the original character had. I'm picturing a whole village trying to ressurect a hero, wherein each villager sacrifices a point or more of a characteristic until all the points add up to the individual characteristics of the deceased. The spell should also have other expensive or hard-to-get ingredients.

I like that idea as well, I always thought it was way too easy to resurrect in other games like D@D, and that would be a great idea to implement.

[frogspawner]

It's a nice idea to have a kind of 'HeroQuest' to enact a Resurrection spell. I'd favour erosion of the character, though, rather than an all-or-nothing succeed/fail test - which is likely to leave you with the same 'dead character' problem half the time. In RQ2 (the real one!), characters lost 15% from most skills each day they were dead (and progressively lost their magic spells too).

[rpgstarwizard]

We had in our old 1ed dnd death would force a person to fight someone of sightly higher power, if they died nobly, if the win, They go back, if not, well, they go to the after world. We used it in RQ and it worked well

[Atgxtg]

My group and I were discussing how we wanted to handle death and dying in our games. We didn't think it would be fair to have no chance to be resurrected

I don't see what is unfair about a dead character staying dead. That is how it works practicaly everywhere else

As for how you are handling it, well, it's a method. I'd suggest just simpllifying the cost with Death to a Spirit Combat. It would save you a lot of work.

RQ had rules for rasing dead characters, up to and including divine intevention. Returning from the death was possible, but made difficult as the spell was Rune/Divine Magic, and there were limits.

[GianniVacca]

In RQ2 (the real one!), characters lost 15% from most skills each day they were dead (and progressively lost their magic spells too).

That's what I use.

[soltakss]

My group and I were discussing how we wanted to handle death and dying in our games. We didn't think it would be fair to have no chance to be resurrected, and yet we didn't want people to just die and not worry about it because they can just be raised by a resurrection spell. People who keep dying should eventually die permanently for their mistakes.

I'd have a "dying" status that lasts for a while, where someone could be healed, so that PCs don't die immediately, to cut down on PC deaths. Of course, having your head chopped off could be immediately fatal.

So the idea we had was that you'd have to bring the person's corpse somewhere, have it all intact and reattach any limbs etc, and then do the spell. At this point the character has to challenge death to some form of contest to earn their way back into their body. In the spirit plane or whatever, the character could do any kind of challenge with death, like having a footrace or crafting a better item. Probably the most straightforward way would be to fight death in combat on the spirit plane.

Bringing the corpse back to a particular place sounds OK. Healing it first is fine.

Fighting Death is a reasonable idea, although it doesn't have to be a combat. Remeber Bill and Ted challenging Death to a game of Twister? That's as valid as any other contest and is a good "trickster" solution.

Where the character ends up might be important as well. It might be harder to get the character out of the Hell of an enemy religion than it would from the character's own Afterlife.

Characters who find themselves in a medieval Hell might want to come back, those who find themselves in Heaven might want to stay there, especially if served by 72 virgins.

Death would have skills equal to the character, and if challenging him in combat he would use similar equipment and stats. But after the first time you die, death would gain a cumulative +10% or +20% bonus to his skills thus eventually putting the odds in his favor should someone die a lot.

I'm not sure if Death should necessarily get more powerful, it makes sense to a certain extent.

I wanted to see what other people might think about that idea and how others choose to handle it.

The spell should definitely be rare and hard to obtain, but not overly rare. Remember Miracle Max in the Princess Bride, he could raise the "mostly dead". Medieval Living Saints could possibly raise the dead, but probably not after 3 days.

Another way would be to physcially go into Hell/Heaven/Purgatory/The Afterlife and reclaim the dead soul, binding it back to the body. That would be a HeroQuest in effect and would take several sessions to run.

[GianniVacca]

Characters who find themselves in a medieval Hell might want to come back, those who find themselves in Heaven might want to stay there, especially if served by 72 virgins.

Well, after 72 hours there won't be any virgins left

Another way would be to physcially go into Hell/Heaven/Purgatory/The Afterlife and reclaim the dead soul, binding it back to the body. That would be a HeroQuest in effect and would take several sessions to run.

And possibly quite an interesting culture-oriented immersive session. I have recently read a Chinese tale where two lovers commit suicide because they can't marry. Then a buddy of the dead guy goes to the Hell Tribunal to get him back to the world of the living but the dead guy doesn't want to because that would mean losing his lover again.

[frogspawner]

Well, after 72 hours...

Hmm, -45% from skills but probably a price worth paying.

[sdavies2720]

Well, I've been using the CON + SIZ rules for hit points, so people die a lot less often than they used to. My players are cautious as well. When someone dies, they can only be resurrected by journeying to the land of the dead. The party has only once thought it worthwhile enough to do, and I don't think they're anxious to do it again. They found the challenges tough enough, and the prospect that all of them might end up in the land of the dead, daunting.

But, more recently they traveled there again, this time to stop one of their long-time enemies from coming back. That's what happens when you kill off a priest of the god of the undead -- they never really go away!

Steve

[Daxos232]

I'm not sure if Death should necessarily get more powerful, it makes sense to a certain extent.

that does sound kinda weird without describing the setting/world we were making. The gods made a deal with Death so that he could only use skills equal in level to their dead followers so they might have a chance to come back to life and continue the gods will. Death's side of the deal is that he can eventually bring the full force of his power to bear, to make sure no one really escapes death.

As for how you are handling it, well, it's a method. I'd suggest just simplifying the cost with Death to a Spirit Combat. It would save you a lot of work.

If we had spirit combat in our game I would, but I didn't like how MRQ2 and BRP handled other forms of spell casting, so I all spells and such are like runemagic and magic, their own separate skill. It's just simpler and I can still implement diversity by having the spells you can learned be dependent on your temple/tribe etc.

M

y players are cautious as well. When someone dies, they can only be resurrected by journeying to the land of the dead. The party has only once thought it worthwhile enough to do, and I don't think they're anxious to do it again. They found the challenges tough enough, and the prospect that all of them might end up in the land of the dead, daunting.

But, more recently they traveled there again, this time to stop one of their long-time enemies from coming back. That's what happens when you kill off a priest of the god of the undead -- they never really go away!

That's an awesome idea, it's a bit more final, but sounds so cool. I'll have to discuss that one with my group and see if we want to handle death like that.

[Atgxtg]

Well, I've been using the CON + SIZ rules for hit points, so people die a lot less often than they used to. My players are cautious as well. When someone dies, they can only be resurrected by journeying to the land of the dead. The party has only once thought it worthwhile enough to do, and I don't think they're anxious to do it again. They found the challenges tough enough, and the prospect that all of them might end up in the land of the dead, daunting.

But, more recently they traveled there again, this time to stop one of their long-time enemies from coming back. That's what happens when you kill off a priest of the god of the undead -- they never really go away!

Steve

That reminds me of my old AD&D days. I had a character who died (and was brought back) frequently. So frequently that that group had to use a wish to bring me back from before I died the first time (to reset my CON).

During one adventure (Inferno?) we went into the lands of the dead and encountered Death. Now we were supposed to make saves against fear, but before the DM could say anything I had my character walk over to the chessboard, move a piece, and walk out through the far door saying, "Your move, Charlie. See you in a couple of days."

By the time the laughter had died down, the DM decided to give my a "by" on the fear save, as by then I had no fear of Death.