Are there regular lynxes in Glorantha?

[smiorgan]

A question for you Yinkin cultists out there.

We all know and love Alynxes aka Shadowcats, which are sometimes depicted as Canadian lynxes with a long fluffy tail. But what about the "regular" members of the genus Lynx, like the Eurasian and Canadian lynxes or the bobcats? Do they roam the woodlands of Genertela? And what about their bob tails?

Is there any myth about the way the lynx lost their precious long tails but the alynx kept it? 

 😾

[smiorgan]

Nice picture of an alynx here:

https://pin.it/2qGNzJi

Apart from the tail, body proportions seem different from the real world members of the lynx genus: it has a longer body, or if you want shorter legs compared to body length. Kind of a cross between lynx and snow leopard.

 

[Alex]

1 hour ago, smiorgan said:

We all know and love Alynxes aka Shadowcats, which are sometimes depicted as Canadian lynxes with a long fluffy tail.

Or as snow leopards with bold facial-hair fashion-choices!  (Or housecat-sized mini-maos, and all points in between, of course.)

1 hour ago, smiorgan said:

But what about the "regular" members of the genus Lynx, like the Eurasian and Canadian lynxes or the bobcats? Do they roam the woodlands of Genertela? And what about their bob tails?

Is there any myth about the way the lynx lost their precious long tails but the alynx kept it? 

It's certain to be Post-Canonical (or never-was-canonical, not certain), Wrong, and no-doubt will get frowned at for even being mentioned mythlet about a rivalry between Bobcat and Yinkin.  It makes a very big deal out of the Spirit vs God thing (this was from the height of the '-20 for being in the incorrect category' silliness), and it did specifically feature L. rufus losing his tail, and connecting that to their Four Methods/Three Worlds mutual disdain.  Can't recall any specifics beyond that, nor if it was in a magazine, online, or then-official, and a hasty and half-hearted google doesn't help.  I'm confident someone will crit a Lore roll and have the exact reference for you.  So there might be something worth looting there, or ignoring, depending on taste, YGWV, etc.

Actually on a more general google, now that I think of it, there's the Rinkoni, a Fronelan bobcat-hsunchen people, and those are in the Guide, and is very much in line with Jamie and Greg's old "Hsunchen Peoples of Genertela" document.  So the bare background facts of the above are still good, it looks like.

1 hour ago, smiorgan said:

 😾

Also, a Happy Mew Year to everyone!     😾

[Jeff]

I just posted this on Facebook and it might be a useful reference here:

FLORA

During the Inhuman Occupation, much of Sartar was dotted with clumps of elf woods. These were mainly yellow pine forests with stands of beech, cedar, Douglas fir, oak, and white spruce, and even a few carefully guarded redwood groves. Remnants of these pine forests still survive around the base of the Quivin and Storm Mountains, near the Indigo Mountains, and in the Lost Man Thickets. Tarndisi’s Grove is an isolated stand of this older forest.

Before human settlement, the valley floors were mostly grassland with scattered copses of oak. Much of this land is now heavily cultivated with wheat, barley, grapes, and orchards. Tall, leafed trees like aspens, cottonwoods and sycamores line the riparian zones, and on the stream banks, bayberries (used for both healing purposes and candlemaking) grow profusely. North of the Creek in the Donalf Flats there are still broad expanses of grasslands with scattered stands of oaks and pines. 

The hills of Sartar have mixed oak and pine woodland and savanna, where oaks and pines are the dominant trees, and open grassland, filled with wildflowers in late Sea Season. Jang is a common flower, used also as a healing plant. Brush fires are common during late Fire Season and early Earth Season, marking the presence of Oakfed. Above 900 meters, the oak woodlands give way to stands of yellow pine, white firs, spruce, and incense cedars. 

In the eastern Guardian Hills, the oaks and pine savannah gives way to low-stunted conifers and the thickets of dark-leafed shrubs, sagebrush, and bunchgrass of Prax.

FAUNA

Dragon Pass is famed for its draconic inhabitants. Dream dragons, wyrms, and wyverns are rare but hardly unknown. More commonly seen are the herds of dinosaurs that can be found around the Moaning Valley or along the outskirts of the Upland Marsh, including ankylosaurs, brontosaurs, hadrosaurs, and triceratops. Less common are carnivorous dinosaurs such as allosaurs, deinonychus, pteranodons, and the occasional spinosaur or tyrannosaur. Dinosaurs are sacred to the Earth goddesses, particularly Maran Gor.

Of the larger mammals, bighorn sheep, bison, boar, deer, elk, impala, and sables are common. The occasional sky bull or mammoth herd can be found in the high elevations, and a few mastodon herds dwell in the wooded areas. Pig dogs are also occasionally seen. Carnivorous mammals include grizzlies, the more commonly seen black bears, and the rare white bear. Sightings of badgers, coyote, foxes, otters, rubble runners, shadowcats, and wolves are common; cougars and saber-toothed cats are present but less frequently seen. Jaguars are occasionally seen in the lower elevation areas of southern Sartar. Smaller mammals include chipmunks, jackrabbits, martens, porcupines, red squirrels, ringtail cats, and skunks.

The area is rich in reptile life, including corn snakes, kingsnakes, and rattlesnakes. The diamondback rattlesnake is the largest snake regularly seen. Cliff toads and rock lizards are not uncommon, especially in the Guardian Hills. Giant turtles can be found in riparian areas. 

There are countless species of birds, including bluebirds, blue jays, crows, hummingbirds, ravens, redbirds, swans, wild turkeys, and woodpecker. Although the area is famed for the little anthropomorphic duck people, there are also normal ducks. There are golden eagles and other birds of prey such as the osprey, red-tailed hawk, falcons, and many types of owls. Vultures and condors are common, particularly in the Guardian Hills.

Giant insects are common, particularly near the Troll Woods or the Indigo Mountains. The giant wasps of the Wasps Nest range throughout southern Sartar, and giant bees are frequently seen near the Vale of Flowers.

[smiorgan]

21 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Carnivorous mammals include grizzlies, the more commonly seen black bears, and the rare white bear. Sightings of badgers, coyote, foxes, otters, rubble runners, shadowcats, and wolves are common; cougars and saber-toothed cats are present but less frequently seen. Jaguars are occasionally seen in the lower elevation areas of southern Sartar. Smaller mammals include chipmunks, jackrabbits, martens, porcupines, red squirrels, ringtail cats, and skunks.

Thanks Jeff! The whole passage is very useful for my Sartar campaign.

So, it looks like the medium feline niche is occupied by the Shadowcat in Sartar. Full stop.  So, no bobcats it seems. Obviously, in Fronela it could be the other way round.

White bear surprised me, but I guess they are like American Spirit Bears (i.e. white black bears) and not Polar Bears (ursus maritimus), which are marine mammals which I cannot see very well in the hills and vales of Sartar.

Edited January 1, 2022 by smiorgan

[Tindalos]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

Or as snow leopards with bold facial-hair fashion-choices!  (Or housecat-sized mini-maos, and all points in between, of course.)

It's certain to be Post-Canonical (or never-was-canonical, not certain), Wrong, and no-doubt will get frowned at for even being mentioned mythlet about a rivalry between Bobcat and Yinkin.  It makes a very big deal out of the Spirit vs God thing (this was from the height of the '-20 for being in the incorrect category' silliness), and it did specifically feature L. rufus losing his tail, and connecting that to their Four Methods/Three Worlds mutual disdain.  Can't recall any specifics beyond that, nor if it was in a magazine, online, or then-official, and a hasty and half-hearted google doesn't help.  I'm confident someone will crit a Lore roll and have the exact reference for you.  So there might be something worth looting there, or ignoring, depending on taste, YGWV, etc.

Actually on a more general google, now that I think of it, there's the Rinkoni, a Fronelan bobcat-hsunchen people, and those are in the Guide, and is very much in line with Jamie and Greg's old "Hsunchen Peoples of Genertela" document.  So the bare background facts of the above are still good, it looks like.

Also, a Happy Mew Year to everyone!     😾

Yeah, that mythlet was in Anaxial's Roster, as part of the bobcat's description (not surprisingly) which also had them living in Peloria.

[Alex]

13 minutes ago, smiorgan said:

So, it looks like the medium feline niche is occupied by the Shadowcat in Sartar. Full stop.  So, no bobcats it seems. Obviously, in Fronela it could be the other way round.

Sounds very plausible.  Actually those are probably rather different niches:  Canada lynx and bobcat geographical ranges don't overlap a huge amount in the RW, and the size difference is significant.  And as shadowcats have (or had, don't have the RQG Bestiary) the alarmingly large SIZ range of 1-6, that covers Canadas, bobs, and housecats, which is quite a lot of niche-width they potentially have covered (and maybe monopolised).

8 minutes ago, Tindalos said:

Yeah, that mythlet was in Anaxial's Roster, as part of the bobcat's description (not surprisingly) which also had them living in Peloria.

Makes sense.  That I do have, though putting my a hand on my copy might be a challenge.

The Guide's statement is only about the prevalence of bobcat-people, so could certainly still have the animals the Peloria.

[Tindalos]

22 minutes ago, Alex said:

The Guide's statement is only about the prevalence of bobcat-people, so could certainly still have the animals the Peloria.

Also since the Rinkoni live along the southern borders of Fronela, the animal may also have spread into northern Ralios, where potential meetings with Shadowcats might happen.

(And yeah, the size of 1d6 is still in play. It's similar to the Hunting Dog's 1d6+1)

[Baron Wulfraed]

23 minutes ago, Tindalos said:

(And yeah, the size of 1d6 is still in play. It's similar to the Hunting Dog's 1d6+1)

{Emphasis is mine}

So... Badger dog (Dachshund) up to a smallish Irish Wolfhound. Hmmm, I don't intend to do a search but does Glorantha have ferrets, and have they been domesticated for hunting rabbits?

[smiorgan]

3 hours ago, Alex said:

Sounds very plausible.  Actually those are probably rather different niches:  Canada lynx and bobcat geographical ranges don't overlap a huge amount in the RW, and the size difference is significant.  And as shadowcats have (or had, don't have the RQG Bestiary) the alarmingly large SIZ range of 1-6, that covers Canadas, bobs, and housecats, which is quite a lot of niche-width they potentially have covered (and maybe monopolised).

Yes, SIZ  1-6 looks like a wide range, but some widespread carnivore species can have quite big size differences, typically according to climate and prey. In Europe we don't have the Bob-Canada split and (apart from Spain, which has a separate species of lynx) it's all Eurasian Lynx, but a lynx from Italy typically won't weight the same as one from Russia. Or Grey Wolves, where the Italian sub-species is much smaller than those of Russia or, say, Canada.

  

[smiorgan]

4 hours ago, Tindalos said:

Yeah, that mythlet was in Anaxial's Roster, as part of the bobcat's description (not surprisingly) which also had them living in Peloria.

Anaxial's Roster! Luckily I have it here in this house. Crack! Ouch, I did not remember how easily the spine of these booklets can break...It has several Alynx breeds from the large herding Hevrening to the small mouser Mourning. All with stats!

The bobcat (Rinkon) entry is separate from the Alynxes. It lives in Peloria and Fronela. The myth is part of the bobcat entry. And, yes, it is about Spirits vs Theism and it is nothing to write home about. There is no mention of long tail vs. bob tail.

The range of shadowcats according to Anaxial's roster is actually most of Genertela (rare in the Wastes and Pent). So, the two ranges overlap in Peloria and Fronela. 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by smiorgan

[Alex]

2 hours ago, smiorgan said:

The bobcat (Rinkon) entry is separate from the Alynxes. It lives in Peloria and Fronela. The myth is part of the bobcat entry. And, yes, it is about Spirits vs Theism and it is nothing to write home about. There is no mention of long tail vs. bob tail.

My hazy memory might be conflating two different things.  I'm fairly sure there was some sort of "how bobcat lost his tail" thing with Yinkin as the perp, but it might just have been a mailing-list post or the like.

2 hours ago, smiorgan said:

Yes, SIZ  1-6 looks like a wide range, but some widespread carnivore species can have quite big size differences, typically according to climate and prey. In Europe we don't have the Bob-Canada split and (apart from Spain, which has a separate species of lynx) it's all Eurasian Lynx, but a lynx from Italy typically won't weight the same as one from Russia. Or Grey Wolves, where the Italian sub-species is much smaller than those of Russia or, say, Canada.

Certainly true, various different subspecies -- which distinction is hazy enough at the best of times, good luck ever pinning a biologist down on that -- Bergmann's rule, etc.  But if you were giving a SIZ roll for Eurasian lynx, it'd be more like 1D3+2.  A range of 1-6 is fairly bizarre, though the example of the domestic dog certainly shows, not impossible.  (I'm not sure if that's at all to do with weird canine genetics, rather than the weirdness of the domestication process.)

[Sir_Godspeed]

Keep in mind that Alynxes are culturally analogous to dogs in many respects, so the SIZ variety doesn't necessarily reflect just wild Alynxes, but all the domesticated breeds there presumably are.

[Brian Duguid]

On 1/1/2022 at 9:57 PM, smiorgan said:

Anaxial's Roster! Luckily I have it here in this house. Crack! Ouch, I did not remember how easily the spine of these booklets can break...It has several Alynx breeds from the large herding Hevrening to the small mouser Mourning. All with stats!

The bobcat (Rinkon) entry is separate from the Alynxes. It lives in Peloria and Fronela. The myth is part of the bobcat entry. And, yes, it is about Spirits vs Theism and it is nothing to write home about.

Weirdly, I am writing something about the Rinkoni for Jonstown Compendium and cracked my otherwise fine 20-year old Anaxial spine just yesterday while looking up this very same stuff.

I'm including a myth which establishes Rinkona / Yinkin animosity, but associated with freedom vs domestication rather than Spirits vs Theism.

[Alex]

41 minutes ago, Brian Duguid said:

I'm including a myth which establishes Rinkona / Yinkin animosity, but associated with freedom vs domestication rather than Spirits vs Theism.

Is this because ragged-arsed hunters are now classed as non-free/semi-free in social terms, because of their lack of ready funds and groundrent? 🙂