Shield absorbing damage question on starter set solo quest

[Beorne]

I'm trying to avoid spoilers.

On point 112:

"Decide which location shield is protecting. Once you’ve done so, roll the lance attack (70%), and your own parry or dodge. 

Determine hit location, then apply damage if the attacker
overwhelms the combined value of any shield or armor."

I thought shields absorbed the damage on selected hit locations only with missile weapons where you can't parry.

Does this happens on melee combat too where you can parry? And in this last case it does absorbs damage on the selected hit locations even if you fail the parryng roll as it seems from soloquest?

Thanks.

[PhilHibbs]

31 minutes ago, Beorne said:

I thought shields absorbed the damage on selected hit locations only with missile weapons where you can't parry.

Does this happens on melee combat too where you can parry? And in this last case it does absorbs damage on the selected hit locations even if you fail the parrying roll as it seems from soloquest?

I'm pretty sure that's a mistake. Shields cover extra locations in phalanx formation, but I don't know of such a rule for lance charging and even then I would think it would only be against another lance.

[HreshtIronBorne]

You do apply the full HP of the shield on a successful parry. Depending on the level of success and incoming damage your shield might get chipped a little. 

 

So, on a successful attack and a successful parry the lancer rolls damage then you subtract parrying shield HP and worn armor from the damage, excess damage penetrates to the Shield Arm, I think, according to Rules As Written. Normally in our games we just keep the damage to rolled locations, this leads to more chopped off limbs, people cut in half, and missing heads though. 

[SDLeary]

5 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

You do apply the full HP of the shield on a successful parry. Depending on the level of success and incoming damage your shield might get chipped a little. 

 

So, on a successful attack and a successful parry the lancer rolls damage then you subtract parrying shield HP and worn armor from the damage, excess damage penetrates to the Shield Arm, I think, according to Rules As Written. Normally in our games we just keep the damage to rolled locations, this leads to more chopped off limbs, people cut in half, and missing heads though. 

I haven't read the listed part of the Starter Set yet, so make of this what you will.

Under normal combat conditions, you are only really able to parry a rider charging you (I'm assuming this as the weapon mentioned is a lance) if you are skirmishing. If you are in a shield wall bracing for the attack, your shield is generally braced tightly, and locked with the shield of the person next to you if possible, in order to provide as much a solid barrier as possible in order to deter the horse from proceeding.

Thus, in RQ terms, you would cover parts of your body with the shield, similar to protecting against missiles, leaving others open (known as Passive Blocking in RQ6/Mythras).

SDLeary

[Beorne]

3 hours ago, SDLeary said:

I haven't read the listed part of the Starter Set yet, so make of this what you will.

Under normal combat conditions, you are only really able to parry a rider charging you (I'm assuming this as the weapon mentioned is a lance) if you are skirmishing. If you are in a shield wall bracing for the attack, your shield is generally braced tightly, and locked with the shield of the person next to you if possible, in order to provide as much a solid barrier as possible in order to deter the horse from proceeding.

Thus, in RQ terms, you would cover parts of your body with the shield, similar to protecting against missiles, leaving others open (known as Passive Blocking in RQ6/Mythras).

SDLeary

But in the solo adventure you are alone confronting a charging rider, not in tight formation.

[SDLeary]

1 hour ago, Beorne said:

But in the solo adventure you are alone confronting a charging rider, not in tight formation.

Then yes, it's extremely odd. It's like saying "hit me"! In fact, if I ran across this situation, I'd give the attacker a bonus, because the defender has apparently given up anything remotely resembling an active defense. Shields and Armor only take you part of the way! Though magic could be a mitigating factor in certain situations, I guess.

SDLeary

Edited January 9, 2022 by SDLeary

[g33k]

I had thought the a shield always protected (contributed HP of armor to) the shield-arm PLUS:

•  one location for a small shield (e.g. you have no/weak armor on your gut, so you usually hold your shield low, to cover it).
•  two adjacent locations for a medium shield (e.g. you upgraded a size, and now have shield-coverage for both abdomen and chest)
• three adjacent locations for a large shield (e.g. you've finally gotten smart, and your shield covers abdomen/chest and head!  (but seriously dude -- armor your belly!) )

These are the "default" states for someone "ready for" (or in) melee.
(As a House Rule, I allow someone who's not in melee, but being shot by missile-fire (and aware of the shooter(s)) to "shelter" behind their shield, treating it as being one size larger  (they may NOT engage in melee attacks that round). )

###

HOWEVER, if you are choosing to "Parry" with your shield, then it's not in a "default/ready" state, but actively engaged.  You're moving it to try to interpose it between the Foe's weapon and your own tender skin; hence, its AP's contribute to wherever you are hit (if your Parry is successful).
 

[Nick Brooke]

The SoloQuest has a weird take on how shields work, not supported by the rules. Apart from this “choose which locations are blocked in melee” nonsense, if you parry with a shield and some damage gets through, it doesn’t automatically hit the shield arm: you roll a hit location as normal.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

33 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

if you parry with a shield and some damage gets through, it doesn’t automatically hit the shield arm: you roll a hit location as normal.

I agree, and that's how we have played for 40+ years.  Protecting a fixed (small) number of locations is just versus missile fire.

However, I recall the RQG rules as slightly ambiguous and confusing on this.  Thanks for the clarification!

[Shiningbrow]

3 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

The SoloQuest has a weird take on how shields work, not supported by the rules. Apart from this “choose which locations are blocked in melee” nonsense, if you parry with a shield and some damage gets through, it doesn’t automatically hit the shield arm: you roll a hit location as normal.

That makes sense... Because the parry could deflect the blow into a certain location, depending where on the shield it hits. 

[Nick Brooke]

3 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I agree, and that's how we have played for 40+ years.  Protecting a fixed (small) number of locations is just versus missile fire.

However, I recall the RQG rules as slightly ambiguous and confusing on this.  Thanks for the clarification!

Notes on Shield Use, RQG Core p.218. Damage in excess of the shield’s hit points strikes a random hit location (“the hit location originally rolled in the attack”).

[Nick Brooke]

I marked up a draft version of the SoloQuest with the frequent comment: "Not how shields work in melee." My proposed edits didn't make it into print, alas.

The rule that's been misunderstood is Use of Shield Against Missile Weapons, RQG Core p.219. The name gives it away. Vasana doesn't need to keep stating which locations her shield covers, because she isn't facing missile fire. Vostor’s shield doesn't block any locations in melee combat, and if he isn’t parrying with it a hit to his left arm does not hit the shield, it hits the arm itself.

[Beorne]

I have added this to the RQ Starter Set errata thread.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Beorne

[Rodney Dangerduck]

6 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Notes on Shield Use, RQG Core p.218. Damage in excess of the shield’s hit points strikes a random hit location (“the hit location originally rolled in the attack”).

 

Page 199 (the Attack and Parry Results Table" uses "affected hit location" for a normal attack vs. normal parry, but "adjacent hit location" when the attack is of better level, such as Special Attack vs, Normal Parry.

To be fair, that isn't "ambigious" (my original term, my bad).  Inconsistent and confusing, or at least likely to be forgotten in the heat of a session, yes. 

Assuming that "adjacent" means "your arm", this make a huge difference.  Crits and specials are usually what kill you.  If they always go to your left arm, RQ combat is much less deadly.

We chose to ignore "adjacent" and always use "affected", meaning, roll that D20 and hope it's an arm or leg.

[Stephen L]

10 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

it doesn’t automatically hit the shield arm: you roll a hit location as normal.

The rules in the Starter Set does not have any hint that excess damage is applied to the shield arm, rather than a rolled location, so Nick is absolutely correct in his correction.  However…

It is interesting (though a trifle irrelevant for a discussion of the rules in the Starter Set) to note that the full rules in RuneQuest in Glorantha, is contradictory on what location is damaged when a blow is parried by a shield.

“A successful parry” on P.198 of RQG states

Quote

If more points of damage get through, those points go on to affect a hit location of the defender, determined randomly in the case of a parrying weapon, or referring to the Shield Hit Location table (page 219). In most cases, a hit to a shield damages the arm wielding it.

whilst “Notes on Shield Use” on P..218 states

Quote

Any damage taken by the shield above what the shield can absorb in one blow is inflicted on the hit location originally rolled in the attack

 

I only mention it because I quite like damage going to shield arm, not through any argument that it might interpose rather than deflect, but rather it makes you more survivable if you use a shield: that critical, which would have chopped your head off, has now chopped off your left arm.  Happy days.

[Darius West]

On 1/9/2022 at 10:27 PM, Beorne said:

I'm trying to avoid spoilers.

On point 112:

"Decide which location shield is protecting. Once you’ve done so, roll the lance attack (70%), and your own parry or dodge. 

Determine hit location, then apply damage if the attacker
overwhelms the combined value of any shield or armor."

I thought shields absorbed the damage on selected hit locations only with missile weapons where you can't parry.

Does this happens on melee combat too where you can parry? And in this last case it does absorbs damage on the selected hit locations even if you fail the parryng roll as it seems from soloquest?

Thanks.

Hi Beorne, I draw your attention to RQG p201 "Use of Dodge and Parry against Missile Weapons".  It specifically says that a character cannot parry a projectile weapon.  It then draws our attention to RQG p219, which points out that a shield may be used to provide cover for a rider based on the table provided, and in accordance with the rules presented in the SoloQuest scenario.