Storm Khan Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 See also page 330, latest edition So, the spell is 12 points of illusion that can only affect, or be perceived by, the caster? Is its sole application for "tripping balls?" It seems like a long ways to go for, effectively, a hit of really cool acid. I may not be understanding the text, or, please share an in-game application that wasn't only, errr, recreational. 👽 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalph Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Illusions that are real only to the caster are still real even if only the caster can make use of them. A hole in the wall. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godlearner Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 8 minutes ago, metcalph said: A hole in the wall. Or a hole in your opponent's chest armor, or rope bridge over a chasm, Honestly its one of the most powerfuls spells in the book, limited only by imagination. Its sole salvation that it is in the hands the trickest of cults. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 5 hours ago, Storm Khan said: See also page 330, latest edition So, the spell is 12 points of illusion that can only affect, or be perceived by, the caster? Is its sole application for "tripping balls?" It seems like a long ways to go for, effectively, a hit of really cool acid. I may not be understanding the text, or, please share an in-game application that wasn't only, errr, recreational. 👽 See also the Hallucinate Q&A. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Desperate WindChild Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 11 minutes ago, Scotty said: See also the Hallucinate Q&A. I like the door example ! the only risk you have (as a pc) is that your GM is eurmal initiate... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Storm Khan said: See also page 330, latest edition So, the spell is 12 points of illusion that can only affect, or be perceived by, the caster? Is its sole application for "tripping balls?" It seems like a long ways to go for, effectively, a hit of really cool acid. I may not be understanding the text, or, please share an in-game application that wasn't only, errr, recreational. 👽 One thing is that you can share the hallucination with anyone that can share your senses, such as your Allied Spirit or anyone under the old Mindlink spell. Not completely obvious what the purpose would be even then, but somewhat more potentially useful. Maybe this? Someone will have to testify under Truth magic or an Oath, and now he can truthfully say that he saw whatever he hallucinated… Edited January 14, 2022 by Akhôrahil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloster Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 34 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said: Maybe this? Someone will have to testify under Truth magic or an Oath, and now he can truthfully say that he saw whatever he hallucinated… Yes, for me, this should work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Khan Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 Sounds like this spell is either recreational or very powerful. My choice. As Tricksters can be weaker combatants, it might be a good play balance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Imagination really is the limit. An Eurmal could Hallucinate a Giant Eagle grabbing him and carrying him to the top of that cliff over yonder. That may take more than one point of Hallucination of course. An Eurmal could Hallucinate an entire feast and it will actually nourish the initiate. At least until the duration ends. An Eurmal could Hallucinate that they have a bubble of air around them while underwater and never drown...until the duration ends. An Eurmal could Hallucinate that the forest has vines hanging from the trees and brachiate from tree to tree like spiderman. Except no one else would see the vines. That would look so funny it would definitely be MGF. As a GM I hesitate to know what roll I would impose to go from one vine to another... They could Hallucinate a weapon in their hands. But that couldn't hurt anyone with it. But could they parry and actually stop damage? Could they Hallucinate that they are in armor and stop damage? Absolutely a fantastic spell in the hands of an imaginative player. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) It has been the case in prior iterations of RuneQuest that you can’t create an illusion of something not being there. You can add but not remove. That would seem to preclude illusory holes or doors, but where’s the fun in that? One fun use is to create a regular visual illusion of a plank over a chasm, and hallucinate a physical plank in the same place and run over it whilst being pursued. Edited January 15, 2022 by PhilHibbs 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HreshtIronBorne Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 28 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said: One fun use is to create a regular visual illusion of a plank over a chasm, and hallucinate a physical plank in the same place and run over it whilst being pursued. This is exactly the kind of Wile E. Coyote shit I think Tricksters should be doing all the time! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) I hadn’t realized how strong the Substance part is. I believe you could legitimately fly with Hallucination (Substance + Motion), by creating enough Substance for you rest on and then moving it with Motion. Mindlink with others, and you can take them with you. Invisible flying carpet! Edited January 15, 2022 by Akhôrahil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said: I hadn’t realized how strong the Substance part is. I believe you could legitimately fly with Hallucination (Substance + Motion), by creating enough Substance for you rest on and then moving it with Motion. Mindlink with others, and you can take them with you. Invisible flying carpet! There is no Mindlink spell in RQG though. The conversion chart states 'Not in the core rules'. There is a mindlink effect with allied spirits called 'continual mind-to-mind communication'. I had thought maybe they would reintroduce it in RBM, but they did not. And RBM is supposed to sort of maybe have all the Rune spells from future rules. Danged if I can find the quote about how inclusive RBM is supposed to be. As for Hallucinate, while the allied spirit link is clearly enough for the 'any in a magical mental link with the caster', I am not sure what else counts. Mindbridge maybe, but that is only conscious thoughts. Speak to Mind maybe, but again not all sensual input. There are enchants which I think are decent which are also not in the Core Rules or RBM, e.g. Armoring, Strengthening. So I am not sure why we haven't seen them yet. But for now, your RQG characters will have a hard time getting the rest of the party to experience the joys of Hallucinate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HreshtIronBorne Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) Could a Eurmali Enchant the RuneSpell onto an item and give one to everyone he likes? Here's your Hallucination on demand! Gotta come back and owe me one to get another! We can all Hallucinate slightly different giant flying animals that pluck us away to safety! Edited January 15, 2022 by HreshtIronBorne More ridiculousity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g33k Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) On 1/13/2022 at 7:47 PM, Storm Khan said: See also page 330, latest edition So, the spell is 12 points of illusion that can only affect, or be perceived by, the caster? Is its sole application for "tripping balls?" It seems like a long ways to go for, effectively, a hit of really cool acid. I may not be understanding the text, or, please share an in-game application that wasn't only, errr, recreational. 👽 Are you, perhaps, overlooking that in Glorantha, "Illusion" magic is actually "temporary reality" magic? An illusory rock (or sword, or dragon) will hurt you -- and damage you -- just as readily as a real rock, sword, or dragon. It's effectively "real," for the duration; it cannot be "disbelieved." An illusory bridge will carry an entire caravan, with tons of draftbeasts, people, carts and cargo. Instead of picturing the Hallucinate rune-spell as druggie "hallucinations," consider it as your own personal bit of reality, that nobody else can see/touch/hear/etc. Create a treacherous guardsman who will open a postern gate to let you into the castle. A rope nobody else can see or use, to climb a cliff. A bridge of your own. Your own hippogriff, to carry you away. Etc... Edited January 15, 2022 by g33k 5 1 Quote C'es ne pas un .sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 4 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said: Could a Eurmali Enchant the RuneSpell onto an item and give one to everyone he likes? Here's your Hallucination on demand! Gotta come back and owe me one to get another! We can all Hallucinate slightly different giant flying animals that pluck us away to safety! I would also totally allow an item (or perhaps a drug?) that lets the wearer (user) share the trickster’s hallucinations. I mean, the trickster would never use this irresponsibly, after all. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Khan Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share Posted January 15, 2022 Could we agree that another sentence or two might have been helpful? That illusions are temporary reality is odd, but temporary reality that only counts for 1 PC? A great idea, but wow, what a trip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 10 hours ago, Dragon said: And RBM is supposed to sort of maybe have all the Rune spells from future rules. Danged if I can find the quote about how inclusive RBM is supposed to be. Largely inclusive up through the Cults of Glorantha books. 10 hours ago, Dragon said: There are enchants which I think are decent which are also not in the Core Rules or RBM, e.g. Armoring, Strengthening. So I am not sure why we haven't seen them yet. I remember reading that those were seen as overpowered/unbalancing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 10 hours ago, Dragon said: There are enchants which I think are decent which are also not in the Core Rules or RBM, e.g. Armoring, Strengthening. So I am not sure why we haven't seen them yet. See Enchantment in the Q&A Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Storm Khan said: Could we agree that another sentence or two might have been helpful? That illusions are temporary reality is odd, but temporary reality that only counts for 1 PC? A great idea, but wow, what a trip! Probably. But it's been kicking around in that same form since 1985. Absent any clarifying work on in in the 30+ years between "3" and "4", not the most likely thing to get to the top of the stack in the RQG process, would be my guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g33k Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 8 hours ago, Storm Khan said: Could we agree that another sentence or two might have been helpful? That illusions are temporary reality is odd, but temporary reality that only counts for 1 PC? A great idea, but wow, what a trip! "Temporary reality spell" is the general case for ALL Gloranthan "illusion" magic -- it's "real" for the duration (RQ:RiG p.331 and RBoM p.59 (I think these sidebars are identical? ) ) . I'd actually resist calling out any particular illusion-spell as working that way (for fear people would think they don't ALL work that way). Create an "illusory" knife ("regular" illusion or "Hallucinate, either way) and cut a (non-illusory) rope with it? That rope is *REALLY* (and permanently) cut. Create an illusory wall j-u-s-t in front of a charging chariot, and the horses will get injured, the chariot smashed to flinders. The difference if you use "Hallucinate" is that the rope is still cut, but you can't affect the horses & charioteers with a Hallucinated wall, so they charge right through it (this outcome seems entirely Eurmali, however). If there were people grabbing the rope (e.g. climbing a wall or cliff, hauling on it shipboard, etc), I think it'd be a GM call (but personally I'd let the Hallucinated knife cut the rope). 1 Quote C'es ne pas un .sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 20 minutes ago, g33k said: The difference if you use "Hallucinate" is that the rope is still cut, but you can't affect the horses & charioteers with a Hallucinated wall, so they charge right through it (this outcome seems entirely Eurmali, however). I don't follow your distinction between these two days. In the first the rope shares the "subjective substance" experience with the Trickster, but in the second, the horses and charioteers do not? Because the former isn't animate, and the latter isn't? What about the chariot itself, then, does it get smashed, after the horses have gone through the wall? Is it treated as part of the "animate unit"? If so, how exactly are we scoping this in the general case? Personally I'd play the "rope" case entirely differently, and the "chariot" case in the way you suggest. I think this pretty clear exemplifies the problem, rather than any sort of solution. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, g33k said: Instead of picturing the Hallucinate rune-spell as druggie "hallucinations," consider it as your own personal bit of reality, that nobody else can see/touch/hear/etc. Create a treacherous guardsman who will open a postern gate to let you into the castle. A rope nobody else can see or use, to climb a cliff. A bridge of your own. Your own hippogriff, to carry you away. Etc... I don’t think the guard works, as he will have to interact with the door and not just with you. The rest should be fine. Same thing with cutting a rope with an illusionary knife - it works if the knife is a regular illusion but not if it’s a hallucination. You can shave yourself for real with the hallucination of a razor, though. Or wash yourself actually clean in a hallucinary bath. You can also get drunk on hallucinary alcohol, which I’m sure can come in handy. I think you could cure yourself using hallucinary anti-venom? You can definitely heat yourself by a hallucinary fire. Edited January 16, 2022 by Akhôrahil 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 32 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said: I think you could cure yourself using hallucinary anti-venom? That's an interesting one! I wonder if that might be running into the limits, not so much of Hallucination itself, but of Illusory Substance itself. Does it counter the venom temporarily, re-poisoning you when the magic expires? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Alex said: That's an interesting one! I wonder if that might be running into the limits, not so much of Hallucination itself, but of Illusory Substance itself. Does it counter the venom temporarily, re-poisoning you when the magic expires? Anti-venom seems to take immediate effect, so I think you should be fine? Since you can explicitly poison people with illusions, this seems symmetrical. For other things, Extension might be called for. You can bandage yourself with hallucinary bandages, but 15 minutes will likely not be enough. Edited January 16, 2022 by Akhôrahil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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