Changes in skill checks

[Jose Luis]

Hello,

I have a couple of doubts concerning the latest edition, Roleplaying in Glorantha.

1) The new rules state that the experience rolls for the skills (to check for a possible raise) happen by the end of each season.  This has surprised me, as in the old rules this roll takes place at the end of each game week!

This means that the PCs now grow 8 times slower than in the old rules.  Why this massive change?  Does it get compensated with something?  Is it acceptable to use the old rule in the new ruleset?

2) Do all the new characters start with some Honor?  The rules do not seem to say so, but the character sheet includes it by default, thus my doubt.

[Scotty]

Welcome aboard!

3 minutes ago, Jose Luis said:

1) The new rules state that the experience rolls for the skills (to check for a possible raise) happen by the end of each season.  This has surprised me, as in the old rules this roll takes place at the end of each game week!

Yes.

3 minutes ago, Jose Luis said:

This means that the PCs now grow 8 times slower than in the old rules.  Why this massive change?

Usually it's only one adventure a season, as adventurers only get a limited time off from their occupation to adventure. If the adventure more, they are penalised at the end of the year. As there is one one seasonal holy day for adventurers, it also means that they have rune points to adventure with. 

3 minutes ago, Jose Luis said:

Does it get compensated with something?

A much richer system with a Sacred time catch up. 

3 minutes ago, Jose Luis said:

Is it acceptable to use the old rule in the new ruleset?

That's up to you. In your game you can do what you like.

Overall my players haven't encountered any problem with seasonal experience rolls.

3 minutes ago, Jose Luis said:

2) Do all the new characters start with some Honor?  The rules do not seem to say so, but the character sheet includes it by default, thus my doubt.

No.

[Jason D]

10 minutes ago, Jose Luis said:

1) The new rules state that the experience rolls for the skills (to check for a possible raise) happen by the end of each season.  This has surprised me, as in the old rules this roll takes place at the end of each game week!

This means that the PCs now grow 8 times slower than in the old rules.  Why this massive change?  Does it get compensated with something?  Is it acceptable to use the old rule in the new ruleset?

Adventurers begin much more powerful, and advance somewhat slower.

However, they also get the advantage of free experience checks in up to four cult and professional skills to check for experience, meaning experience checks for skills they may not have even used. 

Furthermore, they begin knowing a fairly robust common knowledge Rune spells and a handful specific to their cult. 

Like Pendragon, adventures are assumed to occur on a less frequent basis. The Gamemaster Sourcebook will address campaign pacing. 

If you want to do more frequent experience checks, by all means do whatever makes you and your players happy. 

 

10 minutes ago, Jose Luis said:

2) Do all the new characters start with some Honor?  The rules do not seem to say so, but the character sheet includes it by default, thus my doubt.

No, they don't. At any time during play, however, the player can simply announce this new passion, at a starting value of 60%. We gave it a starting value because it is a common one for adventurers to have. If an adventurer doesn't want to have Honor, they can simply cross it off their sheet. 

[PhilHibbs]

In general, as a game design philosophy, RuneQuest is intentionally flexible. We are encouraged to poke around at the rules and adjust the things that we want to make the game better for ourselves. If anything bothers you, anything that you aren't keen on, discuss it with your group and change it. See how it goes. Or if you're the GM, just change it, depending on how your group wants to handle the GM-Player dynamic. Some groups are ok with the GM being the benevolent dictator, others like to come to a consensus.

This is particulary true of variations between editions - if it used to be a different way, and you liked it that way, then by all means go back to it. It worked for people back then (well, except for Fatigue Points, but lets not go into that) so it should work now.

I'm probably be going to go at two or maybe three adventures per season, I don't think the players will miss their occupational skill checks or income if they are getting ticks and loot and rep as clan/tribal troubleshooters. The reason for this is that I don't want the Hero Wars timeline to race past too quickly. I want the chance to involve the adventurers in big events, and not skip past them by accident.

The alternative is to just say "Well, that battle actually will happen in 1627 instead of 1625", and just shift everything back a couple of years.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

 1) It's up to the GM.  RQG page 415:

"At the end of each season, each player can make an experience roll for each check on the adventurer sheet. If more than one
adventure occurs during a season, the gamemaster may allow experience rolls after each adventure."

Our group does not use the "each adventure" model.  However, after a big climactic session, the GM often allows us to resolve all checks, even mid season.  The four occupational checks still come only at the end of the season.

 2) The chance to improve is usually much greater in RQG, because your appropriate Skills Modifier helps you improve the skill.  For example, a "fighter" with STR 17 and DEX 13, pretty reasonable stats, is +15% to improve in all their weapons skills.  My Vinga worshipper is STR 17, DEX 17 and, for a brief time 😞, was POW 17, so she was an impressive +25% to improve her weapons skills, even those above 100%.

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, Jose Luis said:

This means that the PCs now grow 8 times slower than in the old rules.  Why this massive change?  Does it get compensated with something?  Is it acceptable to use the old rule in the new ruleset?

 

That depends, did you actually get 40 increases (time x) per year in the old way of playing RQ? I bring this up a few times a year but it still seems relevant. In Rules As Written one can still get 20 occupation ticks a year, 5 training or practice ticks a year 6 POW gain ticks a year and... what... let’s say an adventure every season... 4-12 possible experience ticks per season (Your mileage will vary) for a total of 20 to 60 adventuring checks a year. 

seems good to me

 

1 hour ago, Jose Luis said:

2) Do all the new characters start with some Honor?  The rules do not seem to say so, but the character sheet includes it by default, thus my doubt.

There are many skills on the sheet (by default) that one does not have at the start of the game. The skill being on the sheet does not mean you have it at all. All skills with a 00% base are at nil percentage (no modifiers) until trained.

Oh, and nice to meet you Jose Luis, welcome to BRP.

Small point to @Rodney Dangerduck... I believe there have always been mods added to a skill tick check. INT in RQ 2 was the Mod I think, and Category Mods in RQ 3 added to the chance of an experience check. RQ 1, I do not know.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[Baron Wulfraed]

3 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Small point to @Rodney Dangerduck... I believe there have always been mods added to a skill tick check. INT in RQ 2 was the Mod I think, and Category Mods in RQ 3 added to the chance of an experience check. RQ 1, I do not know.

It is in the book, but I'm fairly certain my old group ignored it... An 18INT only gained one 18%, 13INT scored just 3% adjustment. I don't think we ever played characters with INT less than 9 (though I did have character with 8SIZ, so?), we would never have encountered deductions... 8INT being -3% Since we started RQ2 characters as 16 year olds off to see the world (wearing the equivalent of a throw rug for armor, and dragging a tree branch as a mace) we tended to already had improvement rolls in the upper 70s to low 80s, so a bonus was quite small in effect.

We also tended to "roll to miss" rather than compute the inverted chances (instead of "I'm at 25%, so I need to roll under 75% to improve", it was "I'm at 25%, if I roll over 25 I improve").

 

 

[Akhôrahil]

4 hours ago, Scotty said:

A much richer system with a Sacred time catch up. 

Seasonal experience really helps as well, especially for skills you may not roll so often when adventuring.

[Kloster]

14 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I'm probably be going to go at two or maybe three adventures per season, I don't think the players will miss their occupational skill checks or income if they are getting ticks and loot and rep as clan/tribal troubleshooters. The reason for this is that I don't want the Hero Wars timeline to race past too quickly. I want the chance to involve the adventurers in big events, and not skip past them by accident.

Same for me.

14 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

2) The chance to improve is usually much greater in RQG, because your appropriate Skills Modifier helps you improve the skill.  For example, a "fighter" with STR 17 and DEX 13, pretty reasonable stats, is +15% to improve in all their weapons skills.  My Vinga worshipper is STR 17, DEX 17 and, for a brief time 😞, was POW 17, so she was an impressive +25% to improve her weapons skills, even those above 100%.

The rule is exactly the same as RQ3's rules. I agree the modifiers are a bit higher, but not by much, so the chance to increase is not much higher.

13 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

That depends, did you actually get 40 increases (time x) per year in the old way of playing RQ?

Probably much over 100. We had about 2 to 3 adventures per season (so 10 to 15 per year), with between 10 and 30 checks per adventure. Counting an average of 20, that means an average of 200 to 300 checks per year, and 100 if you adventure only once per season. Current rate of progress is much slower than previously.

13 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I believe there have always been mods added to a skill tick check. INT in RQ 2 was the Mod I think, and Category Mods in RQ 3 added to the chance of an experience check.

Correct.

[Bill the barbarian]

20 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Probably much over 100. We had about 2 to 3 adventures per season (so 10 to 15 per year), with between 10 and 30 checks per adventure. Counting an average of 20, that means an average of 200 to 300 checks per year, and 100 if you adventure only once per season. Current rate of progress is much slower than previously.

A quick perusal of my numbers and they add up to 51 minimum and 91 ticks max.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[Akhôrahil]

18 hours ago, Jose Luis said:

This means that the PCs now grow 8 times slower than in the old rules.  Why this massive change?  Does it get compensated with something?  Is it acceptable to use the old rule in the new ruleset?

This depends on what you mean. If you used to have weekly adventures and weekly experience checks, and now have seasonal adventures and seasonal experience checks, not much changes (except that the PCs slowly age). That is, they get the same amount of experience per play time, but not per in-game year. The game will feel and behave much the same, experience-wise.

If you play weekly adventures with seasonal experience checks, then this changes dramatically, and likely not for the better. In this case, it makes sense to give the PCs experience checks when they manage to get some downtime instead, like several days’ R&R. They probably shouldn’t get any additional experience for profession and cult if they are this busy.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[French Desperate WindChild]

the main point for me is pc are able to reuse their runic magic as soon as they start their adventure.

 

 

a "new" RQG humakti is stronger than an experienced RQ2-3 humakti (how much time -irl and gloranthan- do you need to become a sword ?)

 

it means you get the opportunity very quickly to visit the hero plane, and to get greater powers.

I think that RQG creation rules send you to the "next step" of the adventurer life :

 

previous rq

- step 0: you have to raise some skills to obtain reusable rune magic

- step 1: you have to get enough rune magic and other powerful items to start heroquest

- step 2: you have to wait for to imagine heroquest rules to start heroquest

 

rqg

- step 1: you have to get enough rune magic and other powerful items to start heroquest

- step 2: you have to wait for to imagine heroquest rules to start heroquest

[Kloster]

You forget that you also need to get enough rune magic before you are allowed to reach rune level, and the time needed to do this is generally much longer than the time needed to level up the skills. Now, you get only 1 POW check per season, meaning you need at least 7 seasons to have 7 successful roll to have the 10 requested RP.

[Kloster]

3 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

If you play weekly adventures with seasonal experience checks, then this changes dramatically, and likely not for the better. In this case, it makes sense to give the PCs experience checks when they manage to get some downtime instead, like several days’ R&R. They probably shouldn’t get any additional experience for profession and cult if they are this busy.

We don't play weekly adventures, but as most adventures are just a few days long, there can be several in 1 season, even when not breaking the 3 weeks per season that cause losses. This is especially easy when characters are deeply inserted in their community, and a lot of the adventures revolve around the clan, the town or hamlet and what is around (Tusk riders raid, stolen cattle, disease spirits,...).

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, Kloster said:

We don't play weekly adventures, but as most adventures are just a few days long, there can be several in 1 season, even when not breaking the 3 weeks per season that cause losses. This is especially easy when characters are deeply inserted in their community, and a lot of the adventures revolve around the clan, the town or hamlet and what is around (Tusk riders raid, stolen cattle, disease spirits,...).

I tend to land at maybe 1.5 happenings (not necessarily proper adventures) per season, and at that point seasonal resolution doesn’t matter so much. Having the occasional double adventure is just something that happens (and since some players have second character or decide to run a character from a pool of common NPCs when their regular one doesn’t fit, it doubles up even less). Some amount of ”inefficient experience” is part of the game.

At some point, it might make sense to allow resolving the checks at downtime after an individual adventure, though. Perhaps have a mid-season checkpoint, or just hand one out to the players when it feels called-for? It won’t unbalance the game, merely speed up progression. 

[Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

At some point, it might make sense to allow resolving the checks at downtime after an individual adventure, though. Perhaps have a mid-season checkpoint, or just hand one out to the players when it feels called-for? It won’t unbalance the game, merely speed up progression. 

Indeed. The GM can always allow experience checks when it makes sense in their game. Don't fret whether the rules allow it. Our resident Chaosium staff have also said this is acceptable.

[svensson]

Responding to the OP here, I may be covering old ground.

1] Remember that most players are far more skilled in RQG than in previous editions, especially in important cult advancement skills. It's not at all difficult to generate a character that's less than 5 skill bumps from gaining Rune levels using the Previous History method  and some focused skill selection. This means that most players will fail their skill advancement checks more often than they make them.

2] Previous editions assumed that characters would only have an 'adventure' once a season or so, or have a very intense couple of years, then go back to their 'day jobs' for half a decade. RQG characters have a much more active adventuring life.

3] The skill of the opposition has increased. All the opponents are as skilled as you are or better.

4] This is the beginning of the Hero Wars era. While you don't HAVE to be a Rune level to HeroQuest, your chances of success are FAR greater if you are. And failing HeroQuests, even the well known, often trod 'minor' ones, has some vicious consequences.  With this in mind, the characters' development is slightly accelerated.

5] Just as the characters are increased in skill, so has their surrounding society. By the end of 1627 almost every single Sartarite male will have some kind of combat experience. These are not scrub-farmer refugees out in East Scritha in Prax... these people have been on the front line of war and occupation for generations. They take their seasonal fyrd training more seriously. It's not at all unreasonable to find 'a simple carl' who has enough fyrd militia experience to have 75% in Spear and 1H Axe. So they're not gonna be very impressed with your 60% Sword skill....

6] One final thing: it's your campaign. You're the referee. If you want to slow things down a bit, only allow clearing checks at greater intervals. In my campaigns, I use an irregular scale of 'extended rest' [no, NOT in a DnD 5e sense...]. When the players are in a reasonably safe place for several days and have time to reflect and consider what they've learned, they clear checks. But I don't allow them to clear checks 'in media res', so to speak.

Edited January 18, 2022 by svensson