Various XP systems

[Kränted Powers]

I'd like to hear your house rules for XP.
I'll share mine:

Instead of box-ticking, we use a system similar to WFRP (1st ed) in our RQ campaign.

After a session the players are rewarded XPs:
3 pts for joining the game
1–3 pts for roleplaying your character
1–3 pts for ideas that solved challenges
1–3 pts for surviving "a scene"
1 pt for the best D100 roll in a session (this rule is for our board gamers)
1 pt for beating an enemy (physical or social combat)

+ 2 pts for each player who voted you as "The Best Player" of the session. (The Best = best acting, best description, best idea, etc)

After collecting all the points, the player continues with the normal advancement system of RQIII (rolling D6 for the amount of the increase and D100 for successful increase), with exceptions: you can increase whatever skill you want (yes, unlogical sometimes, but fun) and you do not lose any XPs; the points "lost" in unsuccessful increase, will be collected in XP Pool. Points in XP Pool will be used later to increase the level of success (skill rolls).

The players seem to enjoy the system very much.

And your system?

[Godlearner]

1 hour ago, Kränted Powers said:

And your system?

box-ticking

[soltakss]

I prefer targeted XP, where I give out a number of XP, normally 1DN+N, (N=3,4,6,8,10) and the Players allocate them to any skills, whether they used them or not.

 

[Joerg]

I picked up RuneQuest because I loathe having to manage XP.

If a player can give a good reason why the character worked up an occupational tick for a skill with a checkbox, I'll allow that as one of the checks. If more than one such skill outside of the normal income activity is asked for, the Sacred Season income roll will take a slight penalty. Cult skills are treated as occupational skills.

[Runeblogger]

4 hours ago, Kränted Powers said:

the points "lost" in unsuccessful increase, will be collected in XP Pool. Points in XP Pool will be used later to increase the level of success (skill rolls).

What does this mean, exactly? How do they increase the level of success?

[Kränted Powers]

3 hours ago, Godlearner said:

box-ticking

How do you award players for good roleplaying? or good ideas?

[Kränted Powers]

14 minutes ago, Runeblogger said:

What does this mean, exactly? How do they increase the level of success?

Sorry, I didn't explain it. I wrote it on some other topic…, here we go:

We've been using opposed rolls like this: the one who succeeds better wins. 
Attk skill 80 > "60" (D100) = +20
Def skill 50 > "29" (D100) = +21, defender  wins.
Or even when failing:
Attk skill 80 > "90" (D100) = -10
Def skill 50 > "59" (D100) = -9, defender  wins.

And of course, Special will win Normal Success and Critical win Special. If it is a tie with 2 Specials, the higher skill wins.

So, the player can use points from the XP Pool to increase the level of success after the roll. So, if you lost your Attack roll vs the Enemy's Dodge roll by 5 %, you can use 6 points from XP Pool to win. But, it will never change you Normal Success to Special or Critical. You can use it only to increase the difference between numbers.
I don't usually like the "Pools", but this seems to work, and the players like it. It's kind of Fate point, which is nice. 

There was a situation once, where the players were fighting each other …and that was exciting because the players saw each other's Pools getting used, hit by hit. 

 

[Godlearner]

39 minutes ago, Kränted Powers said:

How do you award players for good roleplaying? or good ideas?

Do not need to. Some people are good roleplayers and some are not. Why punish people for skills that their characters have and they do not. If they have a good idea then they will have an easier time of getting things done.

[Kloster]

30 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

Do not need to. Some people are good roleplayers and some are not. Why punish people for skills that their characters have and they do not. If they have a good idea then they will have an easier time of getting things done.

I think the same. The only problem is when somebody has good ideas, but is really unlucky.

[DreadDomain]

10 hours ago, Kränted Powers said:

And your system?

5 hours ago, Kränted Powers said:

How do you award players for good roleplaying? or good ideas?

Personally, my favorite experience system is the "in game" system which is how RQ does it. By that I mean: 

• If you use an ability in an important situation, you get a chance to try to improve it (experience check)
• If you significantly fail an ability (fumble) in an important situation, you get to try to improve it (experience check)
• If you actively try to improve an ability and invest resources doing it (time/money), you get to try to improve it (training or research)
• If you pursue your normal, everyday life in between adventures, you get to improve your normal, every day skills (occupational skills)
• If you deliver great roleplaying or provide great ideas, you get to have more in game opportunities may it be new contacts, reputation or social improvement, gifts in form of treasures, hides, magic or extra training, etc.

I prefer to avoid giving out XP.

Edited January 24, 2022 by DreadDomain

[smiorgan]

2 hours ago, Kränted Powers said:

How do you award players for good roleplaying? or good ideas?

Box-ticking and the rest of standard RQ rules for experience/ improvement.

Good role-play and good ideas will make player characters survive the adventure and succeed in their endeavors, which is its own reward, and could bring treasure, reputation, new passions (born out of good role-play), the favor of important people who can reward them by teaching magic, etc.

I love not to have to bother with XPs. And I love how natural and in-world BRP experience system is, and how RQG has perfected it (seasonal play, professional skills, holy days and Sacred Time are great fun). It's a great system and, in my opinion, it does not need the addition of XPs.

 

[smiorgan]

1 hour ago, DreadDomain said:

Personally, my favorite experience system is the "in game" system which is how RQ does it. By that I mean: 

• If you use an ability in an important situation, you get a chance to try to improve it (experience check)
• If you significantly fail an ability in an important situation, you get to try to improve it (experience check)
• If you actively try to improve an ability and invest resources doing it (time/money), you get to try to improve it (training or research)
• If you pursue your normal, everyday life in between adventures, you get to improve at your normal, every day skills (occupational skills)
• If you deliver great roleplaying or provide great ideas, you get to have more in game opportunities may it be new contacts, reputation or social improvement, gifts in form of treasures, hides, magic or extra training, etc.

I prefer to avoid giving out XP.

This. Exactly.

 

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, DreadDomain said:

• If you significantly fail an ability in an important situation, you get to try to improve it (experience check)
•  

I have been using this since the days of RQ3 and am not sure if it is a HR or actually in the books. But yeah, for a first fumble I always had the player tic tha box. Hell, I often allowed in circumstances you mention here. Now, I have looked for it in RQG but have yet to find it. Have you page or chapter for this.

[jajagappa]

9 hours ago, Kränted Powers said:

And your system?

Experience checks.  And I like the RQG model to allow the players to choose an extra 4 skills to get experience in.

In game, as situations arise, I offer opportunity based on roleplaying events to gain or increase Passions.  Whether you negotiate well, rescue someone, perform a task for someone, lead or organize a group/caravan/retinue, etc. - all these offer opportunity for new Loyalties.  If someone betrays you, potentially a new Hatred.  Etc.

[DreadDomain]

4 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I have been using this since the days of RQ3 and am not sure if it is a HR or actually in the books. But yeah, for a first fumble I always had the player tic tha box. Hell, I often allowed in circumstances you mention here. Now, I have looked for it in RQG but have yet to find it. Have you page or chapter for this.

As far as I know, it's not in RQG (and I don't believe it was in RQ3 but I would need to check). It is in Mythras though.

[Susimetsa]

The RQ experience system is one of its greatest strengths, imho, simply because it follows everyday logic: use the skill, or spend time to study it in other ways, and it will improve. The character will not magically develop in a skill they have never focussed on, as they are likely to do in many levelled systems.

[DreadDomain]

11 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I have been using this since the days of RQ3 and am not sure if it is a HR or actually in the books. But yeah, for a first fumble I always had the player tic tha box. Hell, I often allowed in circumstances you mention here. Now, I have looked for it in RQG but have yet to find it. Have you page or chapter for this.

I looked at it quickly and experience checks on fumbles are not mentioned in RQ3 nor RQG. In Mythras, fumbles get an automatic additional 1% increase during the improvement phase.

[French Desperate WindChild]

use mainly rqg standard.

the only few differences are :

for the 4 extra xp (cult and occupational) I let them get one lore skill if they spend enough time on it (example a hunter may choose local lore but not cult lore  , when a priest can)

I let them change a little bit the occupational skills, if they "prove" me that makes sense, for example a heman healer healing the troll community will have more opportunity to get insight troll than insight human

 

15 hours ago, Kränted Powers said:

How do you award players for good roleplaying? or good ideas?

not by giving them more % than others. As said it depends on the players, and I will not weaken (so somewhere punish then exclude) a timid player because the neighbor is a professional actor.

the true award is the effect on the game. As exemple, some may get more social connections (you impress the local priest) because their speach were really good. Some may gain hides, etc... but that is not a question of skills. skills are skills, plunder are plunder, etc..

 

[Kränted Powers]

17 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Do not need to. Some people are good roleplayers and some are not. Why punish people for skills that their characters have and they do not. If they have a good idea then they will have an easier time getting things done.

Yes, I understand. 
I think the opposite way – it is not fair to punish the players who actively participate and contribute to the story, only if one of the players happens to be the more passive type of a player.

Rewarding the players for many various things gives them more options to "shine". I have good experience with rewarding; a silent guy who used to solve all the challenges nowadays seems to enjoy bringing his character to live on the table etc. And sometimes the challenge is solved without any dice or skill rolls. Then the reward system works nicely. But, hey, everybody has their own style. 

[Joerg]

19 hours ago, Kränted Powers said:

How do you award players for good roleplaying? or good ideas?

By giving them the benefit of their action. Good roleplaying? A tick in a passion, possibly in a rune, if appropriate (but probably used by the player anyway). Possibly building up loyalty or reputation.

Good ideas that work are a reward in themselves. They might influence the annual income rolls, or give situational benefits. Not having to fight big bad enemies where they have the advantage is a reward in itself.

 

38 minutes ago, Kränted Powers said:

I think the opposite way – it is not fair to punish the players who actively participate and contribute to the story, only if one of the players happens to be the more passive type of a player.

A party may appreciate its henchmen.

 

38 minutes ago, Kränted Powers said:

Rewarding the players for many various things gives them more options to "shine". I have good experience with rewarding; a silent guy who used to solve all the challenges nowadays seems to enjoy bringing his character to live on the table etc. And sometimes the challenge is solved without any dice or skill rolls. Then the reward system works nicely. But, hey, everybody has their own style. 

That can be done with the after-action boasts and community response. A job well done will create a grand mention by the quest-giver in the community, good reaction by the community, possibly a check in the passion for that community (as in how it is reciprocated). A poet might tell the tale. And your characters might visit someplace else and listen to a re-telling of their adventure which they might not even recognize at first.

Special highlights of an adventure might earn the character a special gift or boon, perhaps a future service, or a trainer's fee waived, preferred treatment by the match-makers, or similar.

So it is fine to reward cunning, good ideas, or chewing the scene, as community reactions and leader reactions, in the game world rather than in the game system.

[Dragon]

23 hours ago, Kränted Powers said:

How do you award players for good roleplaying? or good ideas?

For good ideas, I usually grant an experience check in a related Lore or other skill. e.g. a good idea about how to use a plant would grant a Plant Lore check (I know it has no check box), a good idea figuring out the NPC is lying gets an Insight check.

Good roleplaying may get an award at the next holiness check. e.g. The Babeestor Gor remembered a situation where the goddess did X; The PC gets to note +5 on next Worship(BGor) check, next 'convince the examiners', or allied spirit check. They need to write that down, because it may be a while before they use it.

[ffilz]

In one campaign I started to give players some number of checks at the end of an adventure, or other reasonable check point. The checks had to be made on skills the PC had earned a check on, or were something logical like Riding or Speak Language to have gained experience on without making an explicit check. Another option, back in the 70s and 80s, I used to give +1% to the check roll for each additional check beyond the first.

These days it's just RAW, one check, one gain attempt granted.

[Susimetsa]

On 1/23/2022 at 10:17 PM, Kränted Powers said:

How do you award players for good roleplaying? or good ideas?

Are you rewarding players or characters? A player can easily have a great idea while playing a character to whom such an idea would never occur. Thus, rewarding the character for the player's idea seems off to me as it might also be an example of bad roleplaying, e.g. a math wiz solving a logical puzzle while playing a troll who cannot count to 3. That's an extreme example, but you get the idea. At the same time I would not like to stop smart players from sharing their ideas, so I'd allow them to toss the ideas around, but in the game world the idea would probably be represented as a group effort.

 

[Kränted Powers]

45 minutes ago, Susimetsa said:

Are you rewarding players or characters? A player can easily have a great idea while playing a character to whom such an idea would never occur. Thus, rewarding the character for the player's idea seems off to me as it might also be an example of bad roleplaying, e.g. a math wiz solving a logical puzzle while playing a troll who cannot count to 3. That's an extreme example, but you get the idea. At the same time, I would not like to stop smart players from sharing their ideas, so I'd allow them to toss the ideas around, but in the game world, the idea would probably be represented as a group effort.

 

Moro! I think this is not so complicated at all. XP system is just like playing WFRP in Good Ol' '80s. 
Player "acts" using the logic of his PC in given circumstances.

Yes, I got the idea. I have never had that kind of a problem. We have always solved them.

I encourage my players to creative roleplaying – the stats of the character (or the game mechanics) will limit the actions. 

This is very simple: e.g. the party is attacking a tower. The objective is to conquer the tower. The battle will occur, bloodshed is inevitable. The defender is ready. Then, one of the PCs gets an idea of how to make the defenders surrender and open the gate without bloodshed. 

XP is rewarded for the PC for the great idea for meeting the objective.

This was a very "Dnd-ish" sample.

Nowadays, when our games (or plots) are more like Game of Thrones (compared to DnD Hack'n'slash -style), the roleplaying is much more creative. The solution is not to "deal a ridiculous amount of damage". It is more like diving deep into the motivations, needs, and weaknesses of NPCs/monsters and manipulating the situation with those elements.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Kränted Powers

[Stephen L]

20 hours ago, Kränted Powers said:

Yes, I understand. 
I think the opposite way – it is not fair to punish the players who actively participate and contribute to the story, only if one of the players happens to be the more passive type of a player.

Rewarding the players for many various things gives them more options to "shine". I have good experience with rewarding; a silent guy who used to solve all the challenges nowadays seems to enjoy bringing his character to live on the table etc. And sometimes the challenge is solved without any dice or skill rolls. Then the reward system works nicely. But, hey, everybody has their own style. 

I must admit, I’m struggling a little with this.

I suspect that it’s that I haven't much (positive) exposure to other Role Playing systems.

But have a rewards system for players makes as much sense as a rewards system for the GM, narrative points for each moment of cleverness they bring to the table.

But the RuneQuest system naturally rewards “good” (whatever that might be) roleplaying from everyone, GM and players alike. 

At the simplest level, players get a check for skills they use.  One check, no matter how often.  And if it’s an occupational skill, they don’t even have to use it.  So, players naturally start to think of different solutions to situations, rather than resorting to the same old tactics.  And referees are pulled in after, trying to dream of situations that are open and encourage a wide range of responses.

At the scenario level, the published settings are all about the cultures the characters are immersed in, and the scenarios naturally involve interacting with the rich cultures and people of Glorantha as a driver.  That is really how the characters progress, who they know and impress and annoy as they make their way in the world.

At a deeper level, the magic system involves an interaction with sprits and temples and their hierarchies, and gods themselves, and the myths of Gorantha, so you are naturally pulled into the building blocks of Glorantha, Runes and Myths, as you play.

For me, RuneQuest is the system, where the designers have stood back and thought, what is “Fun” about “Good” roleplaying, and designed a system around that.  So it all just happens naturally when you play the game. 

For me, a XP reward system is an admission of failure in the game, the system is getting in the way of having fun, it’s rewarding behaviours that are a bit dull, and there is a need to balance it out somehow.  That’s why I play RuneQuest, which doesn’t need it.

Having said *all* that, whilst RuneQuest doesn’t *need* a rewards system, if that rewards system is fun, then I can see you might enjoy using it, if it works for you and your gamers.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Stephen L
correct a missing "not", that rather changes the meaning!