What do we know about Entekos?

[Qizilbashwoman]

5 hours ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

Yelmalio isn't tied to illumination any more than Orlanth is.

Yelmalio was first revealed by Nysalor at the Battle of Night and Day

[g33k]

8 hours ago, JRE said:

...

It should be in the dumb section, but I just had a vision that that is what the Reaching Storm is. Entekos the Stormbringer. 

Actually, this seems very very clever, and quite likely!

To the degree that she's "Calm Air" for the Lunars, but (as noted) "Air/Storm" is actually the same runic identity... she's one of the key channels for Sedenya to calm and "Tame" the storm, i.e. Orlanth.

But then in Argrath's mystic aikijutsu, she becomes the "Reaching Storm" inside the Lunar mythscape, and undercuts Sedenya rather than Orlanth.

[JRE]

7 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Yelmalio was first revealed by Nysalor at the Battle of Night and Day

Palangio revealed Daysenerus, and the first Sun Domes were devoted to him. There are a few changes, going through Tharkantus, to reach Yelmalio. I agree it is possible it is just a handy phalangite deity to reinforce the Dara Happan armies, but how it has survived and adapted through the end of the Bright empire, the EWF, possibly the Carmanians, the Lunar empire, it looks to be much more flexible and adaptable than the official party line would make it appear. 

This is a verbose way to saying that I agree it is a tricky Nysalorian creation that somehow avoided Arkat's and the EWF purge, was too far from the God Learners, and collaborates when necessary with the Lunars and also with their enemies. A true survivor god.

In comparison Entekos is much older and much better defined, even if her definition is to make her the opposite of the Storm King. Which is why I think she is the key for Argrath's access to the Pelorian mythscape. I also think Greg considered her a critical deity, so there must be something more...

[soltakss]

16 hours ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

Molanni has the Air Rune. But is she a storm god? Is she Brastalos*!

Molanni is a Storm Goddess.

She is not Brastalos.

Molanni is the goddess of bad, stale, still, dead air. Hers is the dead air, stilled by the Emperor.

Brastalos is the goddess of good, dynamic, centred air. Hers is the secret air, the stillness at the heart of movement.

16 hours ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

No he isn't a sky god, he isn't even in the Sky anymore! His official Rune is Heat, which dates back to Cults of Terror more than forty years ago. He maybe a Fire God, but he's no longer a Sky god, he gave that up when he decided to stay on the Earth. This is all detailed in GRoY and elsewhere.

Lodril is the Sky Spear. 

He is the son of Aether Primolt.

In both these aspects, Lodril is a Fire-Sky deity.

Yelm is a god of the Underworld, the same as Lodril, but Yelm is considered a Sky Deity, so why isn't Lodril?

When the Three Brothers took on their realms, Yelm was originally given the Underworld and Surface World, but he didn't like it, so swapped with Lodril. That is when the Sky deities divided the world between themselves. Lodril brought the Sky back to the earth.

 

[M Helsdon]

20 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Yelmalio was first revealed by Nysalor at the Battle of Night and Day

An avatar of the Little Sun was revealed by Nysalor, but other avatars such as Kargzant long predate Nysalor.

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

16 hours ago, soltakss said:

Molanni is a Storm Goddess.

She is not Brastalos.

 

If you read my post properly, you will notice I never said they were.

Bollocks.

I know you know the word. It was a word play on the word, 'bollocks'.

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

16 hours ago, soltakss said:

Lodril is the Sky Spear. 

He is the son of Aether Primolt.

In both these aspects, Lodril is a Fire-Sky deity.

Yelm is a god of the Underworld, the same as Lodril, but Yelm is considered a Sky Deity, so why isn't Lodril?

When the Three Brothers took on their realms, Yelm was originally given the Underworld and Surface World, but he didn't like it, so swapped with Lodril. That is when the Sky deities divided the world between themselves. Lodril brought the Sky back to the earth.

 

 Does he have the Sky rune? Is he in the sky?

He may be a member of the Sky Pantheon, but He is no longer a Sky deity. If it doesn't walk like a duck and doesn't Quack like a duck, its not a duck.

Yelm split into several deities before he went to hell, Bijiif [he's the one that went to hell] I would say no longer is a Sky God.

I can't remember where the dividing of the realm is, can you remind me, please?

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

On 6/2/2022 at 12:13 AM, Qizilbashwoman said:

Yelmalio was first revealed by Nysalor at the Battle of Night and Day

I'm not sure what difference that makes. Was everyone there suddenly illuminated? I assume you don't mean 'lit up'?

And as JRE has said it was Daysenerus that was revealed, and he didn't illuminate [I mean philosophically] the other army to death.

Lots of things fought alongside Nysalor, interacted with him, lived in his realm. It doesn't automatically make them illuminated, anymore that fighting alongside a troll makes you eat babies.

[soltakss]

17 hours ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

On 6/2/2022 at 10:24 AM, soltakss said:

Molanni is a Storm Goddess.

She is not Brastalos.

 

If you read my post properly, you will notice I never said they were.

Sorry, but you asked a question, or questions, and I answered them.

Were they meant to be rhetorical, or sarcastic, or were you trying to make a subtle/clever point?

It is hard to tell sometimes.

16 hours ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

Does he have the Sky rune? Is he in the sky?

Q: Does Yelmalio, the Golden Sky Dome, have the Sky Rune?

A: No, he has Light.

Q: Is Yelmalio a Sky God?

A: Definitiely.

So, why not Lodril?

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by soltakss

[Joerg]

32 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Sorry, but you asked a question, or questions, and I answered them.

Were they meant to be rhetorical, or sarcastic, or were you trying to make a subtle/clever point?

It is hard to tell sometimes.

Q: Does Yelmalio, the Golden Sky Dome, gave the Sky Rune?

A: No, he has Light.

Q: Is Yelmalio a Sky God?

A: Definitiely.

So, why not Lodril?

 

Light is the highest up expression of the Fire Rune, as unburdened by physical reality as possible - Dayzatar and his protegees, which include Lightfore according to "Gods of Light" in the Sourcebook. (We could have been told that Yelmalio is Lightfore back then, but somehow that information required about 50 years to come out in publication.)

Lodril's Heat is the aspect of fallen fire, whether penetrating (inseminating) the earth (to give birth to Umath) or pouring down on the Nargan Sea turning it into as desert. Interestingly, that is different from the toxic embers of Yelm "Bijiif" Ashlord in Hell, which does not mingle but sear away what is around it.

 

Lodril used to be a Sky God. Heler used to be a Sea God. Both underwent a significant change as part of their myth, on the same scale as Vivamort's encounter with the Devil.

Godtime where any of these haven't yet undergone those changes still is accessible, but bringing these into the world of Time in their original habitat would require rewinding that ruler of reality, or sidestepping Time's source of being (the Compromise). The Red Goddess showcases what you get if you do such a thing.

[Qizilbashwoman]

On 6/2/2022 at 2:57 AM, JRE said:

In comparison Entekos is much older and much better defined, even if her definition is to make her the opposite of the Storm King. Which is why I think she is the key for Argrath's access to the Pelorian mythscape. I also think Greg considered her a critical deity, so there must be something more...

I mean the "something more" is the genesis of Sedenya, n'est-ce pas? The Entekosiad is about the origins of the Red Goddess.

[Eff]

4 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

I mean the "something more" is the genesis of Sedenya, n'est-ce pas? The Entekosiad is about the origins of the Red Goddess.

Which does of course make the whole notion of Argrath using Entekos to assault the Red Goddess rather eyebrow-raising, doesn't it? 

[Jeff]

4 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

I mean the "something more" is the genesis of Sedenya, n'est-ce pas? The Entekosiad is about the origins of the Red Goddess.

Not according to the Red Goddess it is not. 

The truth is that much of the Entekosiad had its origins in The Yuthuppa Book, where Greg explored a lot of Pelorian low mythology. Greg then played around with the idea that Entekos was the origin of the Red Goddess, but She shot that down pretty hard. 

[Ormi Phengaria]

The Goddess called Valare blind or blinded when she made the case that since Innocence was both within the Goddess and the Dara Happan view of Dendara, that the Red Goddess could be worshiped with Dendara rites. Now, just on this surface information, that's a pretty understandable reaction from a deity who, among many other things, represents liberation from patriarchal domination. But it also calls into question the identification of Entekos with Dendara, the theory which Valare sought out on her journey to exonerate and prove.

And the funny thing is that, though Valare tells us that Entekos is Innocence but not the Red Goddess, she never states a firm answer either way on the question of Entekos and Dendara. In fact, throughout almost all of the text, you could easily think that she's actually entirely successful in establishing that Entekos is Innocence, Dendara is Virtue, and that both of them together have inexorable links to the origin of the moon. But the truth she found in Hagu, the truth she believed that the Goddess was imploring her to discover, was almost entirely orthogonal to this moon-theogony.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Ormi Phengaria