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What are Prax hounds?


ChaimJewelfinder

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Hi all, one of my players has stumbled upon the "Prax Hound", in the other animals table back in the RQG equipment list, and we were wondering what those animals might be. Some Praxian dog breed, perhaps? Apparently, the same entry also appears in HQG, but so far this is the only other mention of that name I know about. I'd much appreciate any insight on the topic!

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In lieu of any official information, I'd suggest Prax hounds to be similar to the Saluki. They were used for hunting by nomadic people in the Middle East and North Africa for a very long time, due to their speed and stamina. Apparently a tactic was to throw the dog from camelback directly at the prey, to give the dog a running start! https://midbarsalukis.com/dogs/046.JPG

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  • 1 month later...

I can't quite get my head around why Praxians don't use dogs to help with herding.  Perhaps 1600 years of history just hasn't been enough time to figure this trick out?  We know Praxians do worship Brother Dog, but he doesn't even hunt with them.

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On 2/5/2022 at 9:59 PM, ChaimJewelfinder said:

Hi all, one of my players has stumbled upon the "Prax Hound", in the other animals table back in the RQG equipment list, and we were wondering what those animals might be. Some Praxian dog breed, perhaps? Apparently, the same entry also appears in HQG, but so far this is the only other mention of that name I know about. I'd much appreciate any insight on the topic!

They are camp dogs, most often coydogs that breed true. Greg told me that they aren't used for hunting, which stems from In Prax, Waha’s brother betrayed him and was turned into a dog. He has served loyally ever since to make amends (see the bestiary page 144). They are guard dogs / companions, every family will have a couple, most are better at smelling broos approaching than people. 

 

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19 hours ago, David Scott said:

... coydogs ... 

Are coyotes an "official," yes-these-exist species in Prax?

I mean... it wouldn't surprise me (exactly), as there's a LOT of the American Southwest in Prax!

Or maybe it would surprise me at that... such an iconic species of the Southwest, but my not really recalling it as major feature of Prax.  Did I just not notice the mentions?

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4 hours ago, g33k said:

Are coyotes an "official," yes-these-exist species in Prax?

This came out of a conversation between myself and Jeff a few years ago, so not published, but do certainly exist.

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On 3/6/2022 at 11:11 PM, Darius West said:

I can't quite get my head around why Praxians don't use dogs to help with herding.  Perhaps 1600 years of history just hasn't been enough time to figure this trick out?

Even in the real world, the fact that dogs can be bred and trained to aid in herding has by no means made their use as herd dogs ubiquitous.  Whether it's cultural preference, cultural blind spot, divine writ, or unseen hand of environmental economics, availability doesn't determine utility.

On 3/6/2022 at 11:11 PM, Darius West said:

We know Praxians do worship Brother Dog, but he doesn't even hunt with them.

But, yes, I'm giving you this one.  This is just baka.

!i!

Edited by Ian Absentia

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19 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

What cultures in Glorantha do use dogs to herd?

The pithy little imp on my left shoulder suggests: It's an imaginary world -- make one up.  The cherub on my right counters: Isn't that essentially what Darius was driving at?

I'll confess to having abandoned the generational course corrections to Gloranthan lore.  It's like a tide that ebbs and flows and ebbs again, but the beach is still here.  If something hasn't already been defined, do we really want it to be?

!i!

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1 hour ago, Ian Absentia said:

I'll confess to having abandoned the generational course corrections to Gloranthan lore.  It's like a tide that ebbs and flows and ebbs again, but the beach is still here.  If something hasn't already been defined, do we really want it to be?

 

THANK THE GODS AND GODDESSES!

I have been saying that here for 5 years! ;)

... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast!

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2 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

What cultures in Glorantha do use dogs to herd?

I picture Saird (as center of the ancient Jajalaring culture, i.e. worshipers of Jajagappa, Rowdril, and other dog gods) as one of those cultural centers, and by extension some of the Orlanthi tribes around in Holay, Imther, Vanch, and possibly Sylila.  These lands fell within the Kingdom of Saird when it existed and the Verenmars dynasty aided Alakoring's defeat of the EWF.

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What animals can be herded with dogs? Normally they are ones that can be predated by wolves, so small and not very fast (which precludes all Praxian beasts). That is different from guard, where dogs can be useful with all kinds.

Sheep are probably plentiful in all temperate regions. Dragon Pass Orlanthi use alynxes, but it is possible that as you get further away from Kerofin, alynxes are replaced by dogs among the orlanthi. Fronela surely needs sheep, if only for warm clothing, so I would expect sheep and dogs. Seshnela is probably too warm, but Ralios could be.

GtG has wool exported from Dragon Pass, Fronela, Ralios and Umathela, which fits. Wool is imported into the Holy Country, the Lunar Empire, Seshnela and Fonrit. That does not mean they do not produce wool, just that they do not produce enough, so I would consider dogs also there. Shepherd dogs and urban cultures bring up attack dogs, lapdogs and other weird breeds.

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18 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I picture Saird (as center of the ancient Jajalaring culture, i.e. worshipers of Jajagappa, Rowdril, and other dog gods) as one of those cultural centers, and by extension some of the Orlanthi tribes around in Holay, Imther, Vanch, and possibly Sylila.  These lands fell within the Kingdom of Saird when it existed and the Verenmars dynasty aided Alakoring's defeat of the EWF.

I suspect that north of Dragon Pass herding with dogs is pretty ubiquitous.  Wikipedia suggests that the use of dogs for herding irl begins 8000-7000BC, which is well before the start of the Bronze Age.  Dogs naturally want to chase herds around.  Does anyone have the faintest idea why that might be ? (jk)

Now in Genertela, the whole fight between the Alynxes and the Dogs is a pretty important myth.  On the other hand, once you head up past Tarsh, I suspect that you find Orlanthi who keep dogs not cats, and they have a very different approach to the myths.  There the wind howls like a wolf, or a dog.  Perhaps in Sartar the wind screeches like a cat?  Of course most of this has occurred in Glorantha's myths because Greg Stafford was a self-admitted-and-dyed-in-the-wool cat person.

I suspect that the Solar Pantheons rather like the love and loyalty of their dogs, even if the Orlanthi would see them as co-dependent lickspittles. I also think it is a bit silly that Prax Hounds only guard the campsites of Praxians, when a pragmatic people like Praxians with limited resources who grow up with dogs far more than cats would surely use them for hunting and herding instead of just camp guards and pre-heated pillows on cold nights, and the occasional source of even more leather.  Given that both Foundchild and Brother Dog are worshipped in Balazaar and Prax, why are hunting dogs only found in Balazaar?  Surely the dog training knowledge moves with the cult?

In terms of dogs and cats, I personally don't have a dog in the fight (see what I did there?), I think both dogs and cats are very different but lovely critters in their own rights, and better friends than humanity often deserves.

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I don't think that following Praxian herd beasts would benefit much from dogs aiding the herding. As guardians, sure, but herders accompanying the herds rather than staying in the camp can just as well have a few with them to give off warnings. Rounding up stragglers may be less of an issue with the four-legged kin than it is with sheep or dumb cattle.

IMO it is the herd priestess communicating with the herd alpha female who determines migration. The priestess will be able to add dealing with other hazards into the normal scheme of migration. On the whole, the herd determines the migration, though, with the clan following.

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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On 3/7/2022 at 8:11 AM, Darius West said:

I can't quite get my head around why Praxians don't use dogs to help with herding.  Perhaps 1600 years of history just hasn't been enough time to figure this trick out?  We know Praxians do worship Brother Dog, but he doesn't even hunt with them.

Because there is no Praxian Myth related to herding with dogs ?

Wind on the Steppes, role playing among the steppe Nomads. The  running campaign and the blog

 

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IMG -- specifically, IMP (In My Prax) -- each grouping of herded Herd Beasts has a "Spirit of the Herd."  It is a feature of the Compact.

It is a bit Wyter-like, but more oriented towards surviving the environment, and herd-interests.  It's also like an Animal Spirit, but a bit more oriented toward people & the partnership with the herders.  It does not occur with wild herds.

It "calls," very gently, like-to-like.  Wandering members of the herd tend to know which way back to the herd.  Wild / un-herded beasts of the species wander in and join.  Herders can (and almost universally do!) Initiate to the Herd, sac POW, and gain a similar sense of direction.  This tends to reduce the need for dogs/etc to help with herding.  So does magic -- spirits to help search, Mobility to chase-down a panicked runaway, etc.

Awakened Herd-Beasts keep their pre-Awakening attunement (and, though it's seldom discussed, some Praxians admit they can feel the "call" when near the herds kept by Morokanth).

YGMV

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2 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Weren't they always? And the other way around?

Interpretations have varied.  But if innovation and free will are precluded by the Cosmic Compromise, I'm throwing in with the Red Goddess in a way that I've never done before.

Let the Dogs Herd!

!i!

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I can think of an explanation as to why the praxians wouldn't use them to herd. Praxians herd beasts really don't like dogs/predators and either get to stressed out by there presence or the beasts kill them on sight.

Edited by Ironwall
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3 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

Interpretations have varied.  But if innovation and free will are precluded by the Cosmic Compromise, I'm throwing in with the Red Goddess in a way that I've never done before.

Let the Dogs Herd!

!i!

No one said you can't innovate, but it seems like most innovations are retroactively legitimized by reference to myths. 

Did the innovation or myth come first? Yes.

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