Illumination and redemption.

[EricW]

On 2/10/2022 at 9:34 PM, JRE said:

I play that an illuminate is still bound by their geas, but not so tightly, so they can ignore them, but while they ignore them, they lose also the benefits. Their advantage is that they can reassume the geas and then renew the benefits when they need them. They can choose to be a devout Humakti, and reap the benefits, and then stop being one, and be friendly with Delecti. Because the God has not say on this, is a force without will. 

YGMV, but illumination is a threat because abuse is such an easy path to power. You get to do anything. The only limit is you have to hide your theft of magic, otherwise you attract attention from people determined to stamp out such abuse. I don't think there is any need to tame it, if a PC starts abusing the power, there are real consequences.

I mean, illuminates can have chaos features, yet still freely access anti-chaos cults they have joined - unless someone notices the tentacles.

Edited February 11, 2022 by EricW

[davecake]

On 2/11/2022 at 9:21 PM, EricW said:

YGMV, but illumination is a threat because abuse is such an easy path to power.

Secret Illuminated individuals stealing magic from other cults is something that happens much more in rpg games I think. It makes for great villains, but it requires maintaining a complex double life in order to get some cool magic that you can’t really use in public, so Fire gods in Chaos or Darkness cults etc isn’t going to happen very often - and it kinds of ignores that Illumination is a transformative experience that is just as likely to change your motivations away from personal power. 
Illuminated conspiracies, which cover for each other and are able to set up, say, their own Mallia shrines with their co-conspirators, or plot and sponsor infiltration of an important cult with a specific aim in mind. These make even better villains, because they can have quite sophisticated motivations - usually because they have convinced themselves it’s not abuse, just an easy path to power that they need for reasons. This is why Lunars can be such great villains - well, it seems terrible to you, but their motivations are clear (or some of them can be duping or using others, etc, even better). 
Illuminates that have motivations that go beyond personal power, and into changing or creating the mythic world some how are even more fun. They are going to heal the rift between Orlanth and the Red Goddess to bring peace, that’s why they are in both cults and trying to make the Orlanth cult less anti-Chaotic. That Illuminated Lhankor Mhy only joined Thanatar to destroy it from the inside, he just needs to learn a few cult secrets first. And so on. Tragedy and a little madness is always good. It doesn’t even need to be powerful or even obviously morally wrong, just trying too hard to push against the status quo, and you have a great antagonist. Eg an Illuminated hero of Orlanth Thunderous that is also a fervent believer in democracy and equality and wants to destroy the Orlanth Rex cult (and somehow just shrugs of all those spirits of reprisal) ( or the equivalent for Yelm). 
Or, of course, trying to rebuild whole cults and social systems to support some mystic agenda, do what Sheng or Arkat or the Golden Dragon Emperor or the EWF did on a smaller scale. Plenty of opportunity for mystic heroquesting to make a lot of trouble. 
Just the plain acquisition of personal power from multiple cults is a valid way to use Illumination - but it’s somewhat implausible and far too melodramatic to be the main, or only, way. 

[Akhôrahil]

On 2/10/2022 at 12:34 PM, JRE said:

Illumination frees your will, and make the will exchanges evident to the illuminated, but they still happen. I play that an illuminate is still bound by their geas, but not so tightly, so they can ignore them, but while they ignore them, they lose also the benefits. Their advantage is that they can reassume the geas and then renew the benefits when they need them. They can choose to be a devout Humakti, and reap the benefits, and then stop being one, and be friendly with Delecti. Because the God has not say on this, is a force without will. 

In Lords of Terror, there's an Illuminated Scorpion Queen Sword of Humakt who has learned how to "bend" her geases - she can use her stinger because that's "inherent" poison so that's alright, she gets to ambush people who has ambushed her at some time, and so on. I kinda like it. 

[EricW]

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

In Lords of Terror, there's an Illuminated Scorpion Queen Sword of Humakt who has learned how to "bend" her geases - she can use her stinger because that's "inherent" poison so that's alright, she gets to ambush people who has ambushed her at some time, and so on. I kinda like it. 

What I found fascinating was how she really came to identify with being a Scorpion Queen, trying to initiate the tribe into Humakt, working out why some of here children weren't intelligent and what to do about it. 

Who knows. Maybe down the track if she gets bored with being a Scorpion Queen, she might realise that if she joins Thanatar she can regain human form, by being killed then being bound into the body of a human. Or if some humans really bother her tribe, maybe she'll join Malia, and really sort out their village. 

[ChildOfEru]

 

Thanks for all of the interesting commentary.  Sorry for not playing a more active role in the conversation (startups will do that to you).  Redemption was a loaded term and I probably should have avoided using it.   

The varied and interesting commentary is part of the reason I love the world of Glorantha.

 

 

[ChildOfEru]

On 2/11/2022 at 8:21 AM, EricW said:

YGMV, but illumination is a threat because abuse is such an easy path to power.

That is true of all power really.   I was raised on the quote:  'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority, still more when you superadd the tendency or the certainty of corruption by authority.' -- Lord Acton

The problem of abuse of power is there regardless Illumination.

 

[EricW]

5 hours ago, ChildOfEru said:

The problem of abuse of power is there regardless Illumination.

Indeed, but by magically removing many of the normal consequences of such abuse, illumination makes abuse of power a lot easier.

[Akhôrahil]

”Is Illumination stronger?”

”No, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.”