How common is Iron gear?

[JRE]

The reference in GtG is:

Quote

Iron City juts sideways out of the wall of Magasta’s Pool. The residents of Nowhere Land can see its rusty redness across the gap of the maelstrom

A quick search in the bestiary brings Rusting as one of the effects from Curse spirits, but considering other uses in the Red book of Magic, it may well refer to a fungal infection, and powerful voughs having "rust-proof iron claws" rather than aluminum, in the Bestiary. 

Nothing conclusive. Non-canon Martin Helsdon discusses briefly rusting iron and probably influenced my own thinking in both The Armies and Enemies of Dragon Pass and Men of the West: Warfare in Glorantha.

[JRE]

I do not wish to monopolize the thread, but Gloranthan dwarves are one of my favorite speculation points.

We know of armies of iron mostali and iron dwarves lost both before and after Dawn. Their equipment, and possibly in the case of mostali their own bodies represent a sizeable booty. I would expect elves and trolls to just bury it, so IMG there will be iron "mines" in the sites of ancient battles.

If the iron is rusted, it will be unusable for humans. I would propose one of the secrets the Third Eye Blue stole is how to restore iron from rust. I wrote iron oxide, but that is not right in Glorantha. It is iron's weakness to water and air runes what causes this.

That would be offensive enough to dwarves, but the fact that it means they are robbing dead dwarves and mostali what makes their offence so unforgivable. That also would allow iron to be available without involving dwarves.

If you find a rusted item of iron you can take it to your friendly dwarf (only an option in a few selected places, and the reaction will depend on what it is and its provenance) or TEB smith and you can get fresh iron, or repair the rusted object. 

Iron was made against Darkness and Earth, and involves Fire in its making. Moon was already dead at this point. So that is why it is weak against Water and Air. 

[svensson]

I dunno, JRE. Just how to work Iron is enough to piss off the Mostali in the most visceral way. Iron was the ultimate secret, the Mostali's principal defense against Uz and Aldryami, and humans stole it. For a culture as conformist and law-abiding as Dwarfs [embodying their Statis rune], it's the ultimate betrayal and not something they're ever likely to forget.

Returning Iron in any form is won't make 'friends' with Dwarfs. To make 'friends' that Dwarf would have to be an Individualist heretic, and even then it would be difficult to do given the lifespans of Dwarfs.

And really, the Nature of Iron and the Relationship with Dwarfs are really two topics of their own.

[JRE]

We do not see that in the West, or even any dwarven animosity to Humakt / Yanafal Tarnils, who probably represent a sizeable amount of the iron in human hands in central Genertela. 

So, they do not like thinking about it, but just working iron is not a problem, at least IMG. It could be a fun setback to an overpowered group of players to have a diamond irondwarf with stacked iron chain and plate and -200% to any magical effect appear to "liberate" their iron items, but I dislike such heavy handed adjustments.

Being the first thieves is clearly more serious, but I would not mind having something more ambiguous, not a clear black and white picture of why the dwarves really have it against Third Eye Blue.

It would open the door to a secret knowledge that TEB did not steal the knowledge from the dwarves, but the founder discovered it on their own, working on iron recovered from destroyed iron mostali (though the dwarves will call that stealing as well). It is a personal feeling, but that would help make the TEB dangerous innovators, rather than the holders of a secret and severely protected knowledge).

As a humanist, I am in the human side in both Human vs. Old Gods and Human vs. Elder races in the coming war. I am also pro-human in the Human vs. Dragon conflict that lies in the shadows of the Hero Wars. 

[Joerg]

On 3/24/2022 at 1:55 PM, JRE said:

I do not wish to monopolize the thread, but Gloranthan dwarves are one of my favorite speculation points.

We know of armies of iron mostali and iron dwarves lost both before and after Dawn. Their equipment, and possibly in the case of mostali their own bodies represent a sizeable booty. I would expect elves and trolls to just bury it, so IMG there will be iron "mines" in the sites of ancient battles.

Dwarfs have a solution for that kind of attrition: gobblers. Perhaps the one species that outcompetes trolls on the subject of voraciousness, these entities that bear some resemblance to Krarshtkids get sent out to devour and neutralize dwarf-created stuff that got away from their possession without any contractual compensation. (I suppose that a huge wave of gobblers was released after the fall of the Clanking City to neutralize all those loaned dwarf artifacts that the victors who were prevented from plundering the place took home instead - a concept dwarfs might have anticipated if they have personalized tools.

The dark trolls of the Lesser and Greater Darkness probably were quite adept at removing the poisonous shells and inner framework from their slain adversaries for that special buzz they get from their stone gizzards.

 

 

 

On 3/24/2022 at 1:55 PM, JRE said:

If the iron is rusted, it will be unusable for humans. I would propose one of the secrets the Third Eye Blue stole is how to restore iron from rust. I wrote iron oxide, but that is not right in Glorantha. It is iron's weakness to water and air runes what causes this.

In my chemist's Glorantha, aerial corruption (and to some extant, watery corruption) will result in oxidic minerals, while Darkness (anaerobic) corruption results in sulfidic minerals. The two forms of mineral can be transformed from one form to the other by accomplished alchemists, but to extract the metal from either is outside of their expertise for Death metal.

(I am still unconvinced that smelting is widespread in Glorantha when so much can be done by separating out dust and nuggets of natural metal and then melting them or just pounding them together.)

Several metals are easy prey for the elements, but iron is fairly immune to Darkness corruption. Unlike the celestial metal (Ul-metal, silver) which is fairly immune to Storm and Sea but is easily overcome by Dark corruption. And then there is the uncorruptible gold, weak but persistent.

 

On 3/24/2022 at 1:55 PM, JRE said:

If you find a rusted item of iron you can take it to your friendly dwarf (only an option in a few selected places, and the reaction will depend on what it is and its provenance) or TEB smith and you can get fresh iron, or repair the rusted object. 

Such a feat would be a restoration rather than a transmutation, a different magical concept as every sorcerer would be able to tell you, using the Dispel technique with the appropriate corroding elements rather than the Separate technique that is used to isolate the metal potential from a mineral.

I like the idea that I ran across again today that the TEB may have been Kachasti who were enslaved in the Nidan uprising and given to the dwarfs, then escaped after observing the mostali metalworks operating bellows and similar at best semi-skilled tasks.

 

On 3/24/2022 at 1:55 PM, JRE said:

Iron was made against Darkness and Earth, and involves Fire in its making. Moon was already dead at this point. So that is why it is weak against Water and Air. 

Heat is used in the production of all metals. Fire is a purifying agent when its destructive potential is used in a very balanced way, which would be the secret of smelting. (And of roasting sulfidic aka Dark ores to create oxidic ones, releasing noxious fumes.) Weirdly enough that goes even for dark metal aka lead, at least if we assume a modicum of behavior like the real world analogs.

If not, then the act of smelting would be something difficult to describe and to fulfill audience expectations.