Running Borderlands in RQG (Borderlands spoilers within)

[Kargzant]

Hey all. My gaming group and I ran through the starter set, and I thought about moving over to Prax to run the Borderlands campaign. I've had a few questions about modernizing it because of the system and story developments since RQ2.

Most characters from Sartar of Prax are going to be going to react negatively towards Lunars. It would be interesting for the characters to work for a Lunar Duke, but I need a good reason for him to be given a corner of Prax to settle.

Will I need to update the statistics for enemies? I figure that it won't matter too much at first since the starting mission has little combat and my PCs aren't particularly bloodthirsty. Still, I expect that the encounters might be too easy as written without some tweaking to more powerful RQG PCs.

The module has advice to move towards Balazar and Griffin Mountain afterwards if the GM decides. Still, it's possible that my group would prefer to renew their contract with Duke Raus after the campaign, especially if one of them is his new guard captain. Are there any RQ3 books that I could buy to flesh out this corner of Prax? Does Shadows on the Borderlands have any connections with the Borderlands material? It has a significant price tag, so if there's a connection I want to make sure what my group plans at the end before I pick up a secondhand copy.

I would appreciate any advice that people have on running Borderlands in the new system. I know a lot of people here have been playing and running RQ for years and have experience that I lack.

[Bill the barbarian]

11 minutes ago, Kargzant said:

Most characters from Sartar of Prax are going to be going to react negatively towards Lunars. It would be interesting for the characters to work for a Lunar Duke, but I need a good reason for him to be given a corner of Prax to settle.

 

Realistically he would not be there, he is run off or killed long before the canon games runs. Run it as though you were working for an Orlanthi chieftain, bandit rebel turned farmer or come up with something else... might be a great deal of fun. 

 

11 minutes ago, Kargzant said:

Will I need to update the statistics for enemies? I figure that it won't matter too much at first since the starting mission has little combat and my PCs aren't particularly bloodthirsty. Still, I expect that the encounters might be too easy as written without some tweaking to more powerful RQG PCs.

 

Nope, add runes and passions. Do not roll to augment unless for story effect, give initiates 1 to 4 Rune Spells and that many RPs. Make your life easy at all times. 

 

11 minutes ago, Kargzant said:

Will I need to update the statistics for enemies? I figure that it won't matter too much at first since the starting mission has little combat and my PCs aren't particularly bloodthirsty. Still, I expect that the encounters might be too easy as written without some tweaking to more powerful RQG PCs.

 

You will need to tweak (seasoning for a soup) constantly. It is the bane and job of the GM

 

11 minutes ago, Kargzant said:

Are there any RQ3 books that I could buy to flesh out this corner of Prax? Does Shadows on the Borderlands have any connections with the Borderlands material? It has a significant price tag, so if there's a connection I want to make sure what my group plans at the end before I pick up a secondhand copy.

I would say yes, but the price is prohibitive. Don't bother. Any grognards know if the HQ Pavis GTA is still available? Is it worth a buy?

 

11 minutes ago, Kargzant said:

I would appreciate any advice that people have on running Borderlands in the new system. I know a lot of people here have been playing and running RQ for years and have experience that I lack.

Don’t sweat it, hand wave lots, do not worry about the stats not being right, what is the dif twixt 45% and 50 % anyway?

If it is fun you got it right!

Edited March 8, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Kargzant said:

Will I need to update the statistics for enemies? I figure that it won't matter too much at first since the starting mission has little combat and my PCs aren't particularly bloodthirsty. Still, I expect that the encounters might be too easy as written without some tweaking to more powerful RQG PCs.

I've been playing in a Borderlands campaign using RQG.  I don't think our GM has had to adjust much, if anything.  Broos are still nasty.  And try to avoid getting hit by an ankylosaur's tail...

[Akhôrahil]

3 hours ago, Kargzant said:

Most characters from Sartar of Prax are going to be going to react negatively towards Lunars. It would be interesting for the characters to work for a Lunar Duke, but I need a good reason for him to be given a corner of Prax to settle.

One way to handle this could be to say that while he’s from the Lunar Empire, he’s not a practitioner of the hated Lunar religion, and he’s also somewhat disgraced, I think? Also, a pretty solid guy.

If you have placed the time at 1625-27 already, his presence would be weird, though. Maybe Argrath decided that a farming base would be a good idea and installed his own guy with a similar function, equally in need of troubleshooters?

3 hours ago, Kargzant said:

Will I need to update the statistics for enemies? I figure that it won't matter too much at first since the starting mission has little combat and my PCs aren't particularly bloodthirsty. Still, I expect that the encounters might be too easy as written without some tweaking to more powerful RQG PCs.

If you care about a modicum of game balance, yes - RQG starting characters are extremely strong compared with RQ2 ones. Also, some of the magic may make a mess of a scenario - Fly will make the Condor Crags play out very differently, for instance.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[Bill the barbarian]

11 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

One way to handle this could be to say that while he’s from the Lunar Empire, he’s not a practitioner of the hated Lunar religion, and he’s also somewhat disgraced, I think? Also, a pretty solid guy.

 

He isn’t He worships a Carmenian form of Daka Fal

 

11 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Also, a pretty solid guy.

Also true

 

[Akhôrahil]

20 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

He isn’t He worships a Carmenian form of Daka Fa

Thanks, wasn’t sure if that was canon!

[Kargzant]

27 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

If you care about a modicum of game balance, yes - RQG starting characters are extremely strong compared with RQ2 ones. Also, some of the magic may make a mess of a scenario - Fly will make the Condor Crags play out very differently, for instance.

I've been pretty good at keeping up with everyone's Rune Magic. I don't want to forbid any spells and I want to make sure that everyone has a use for their magic, but at the same time I should probably have contingency plans for some situations like Fly no-selling Condor Crags. It might be worth it to keep the Dream Dragon from the 5 Eyes Temple in reserve to help the condors.

Would it make sense to have the settlement be a Pol Joni outpost that got a nod from Argrath? There would still be plenty of room for tensions with Nomads and Morocanth without involving the hated Lunars.

[Squaredeal Sten]

You could always run Borderlands at its original date, rather than the standard RQiG date of 1625ST.  Character family history would have to be different but there is an early family history available on Jonstown Compendium for a good price.  That would mean you didnt have to reimagine the Duke's status and also the political  alignments of the tribes.  Altogether a much simpler campaign start.

As for npc stats, not much difference except you should give them appropriate rune magic.  And change the occasional reference to chain mail.  You will find you have to roll some  stats not provided, like STR and SIZ for those ankylosaurs that almost got  Jajagappa's character, but that would have been the case running RQ2 also.

Prax does need a 1625ST update.  But for you to update to include Argrath's 1625 status and the absence of the Lunar Empire would be too much of a project, essentially a 75 percent rewrite.  Something for a team of Glorantha grognards, which I understand is taking years under contract to Chaosium.

The RQ3 Borderlands is essentially the RQ2 Borderlands.  Same with Big Rubble.  Don't think you need those old updates.  

Edited March 10, 2022 by Squaredeal Sten
Added paragraph. SIZ, not DEX.

[svensson]

The following books 'flesh out' Prax and the Zola Fel Valley in RQ3:

- River of Cradles [HIGHLY recommended, would tie in with Borderlands nicely]

- Sun County [moderately recommended, if you have a Yelmalio in the group it's almost necessary]

- Shadows on the Borderlands [moderately recommended, good source of side quests, and some pretty brutal high level stuff]

- Strangers in Prax [moderately recommended; VERY high level encounters /patrons /bad guys, including some Lunars your characters would do very well to avoid]

I would also recommend the follow the following RQG books, which will save you a lot of time:

- RuneQuest Bestiary [for RQG]

- The Red Book of Magic

- RuneQuest Weapons and Equipment

All of them are available from drivethru or Chaosium.com.

RQG up-guns the characters a fair bit, so you might have to add some percentiles to the bad guys to get them in line. More importantly, you'll have to modify cults and magical powers to the new RQG rules. There are significant changes in ALL forms of magic between RQ2, RQ3 and RQG and this will take some modifications. However, at the back of the RQG main book is a conversion guide to help you along with that.

One HUGE difference is in Sorcery as a magic form. The RQG version is entirely different than earlier editions. We don't have a sorcery guide for RQG yet, just what's in the RQG main book, so I'd advise avoiding that form of magic altogether until more info is available.

Edited March 29, 2022 by svensson

[g33k]

I'd run it that the disgraced Raus had secretly become an adherent of Argrath, and survived the purge of the Lunars.

I'd also look at some of the Jonstown Compendium materials to bulk out Borderlands.

[Graeme P]

If you are happy to go back to the 1610s then River of Cradles has a great advanture which is for beginning characters and introduces the PCs to Raus Fort, so it and then Borderlands would work well.  In my view a campaign with Sandheart, Sun County and Shadows would be large enough on its own to not need to be intertwined with these.  Those three also work better with characters from predominantly sun-worshipping and associated cults.

If your group want to keep running their existing characters and so you are in the 1620s then it makes sense to have a new  Argrath-friendly replacement to Raus.  I imagine that the early adventures would require more work than the later ones, but who is to say that the new person in charge desn't have a headstrong daughter...?  As a start, being an ally of Argrath would change the interaction with the nomads.

Wherever the most fun is to be had is the direction to head towards.

[Akhôrahil]

8 hours ago, Kargzant said:

Would it make sense to have the settlement be a Pol Joni outpost that got a nod from Argrath? There would still be plenty of room for tensions with Nomads and Morocanth without involving the hated Lunars.

You could make up a plotline to make this work, I think. Argrath would very much like the farming colonies to stay in place as a source of produce, but he knows his Praxians and realizes it will be an absolute mess of massacres and enslavement once they hit the Grantlands, which will be a bad look, and worse, remove the workforce. So you could have a set-up where he contacts a Pol-Joni chief to secure the area and try to hold on to the farmers, and said chief hurries to pick up the adventurers as extra muscle. Then you could either have them arriving in a somewhat Borderlands:y situation where a new Pol-Joni leader has already been installed in Fort Raus, or even have the adventurers be part of the complicated initial situation (there are bunches of angry Praxians there expecting loot and revenge - how do you handle that? has Fort Raus even been taken yet?).

[svensson]

Building on @Akhôrahil's point, if you're really feeling ambitious, you could try to knit the whole damned thing together. 

Generation 1: Make up a Sartarite clan that was evicted from their lands for being rebels [ca. 1603-10 or so]. The clan is exiled down the Pavis Road en masse. The player characters are young adults who have to make their way in a world with only a shattered clan behind them.

At this point you play through Borderlands and the other RQ2 Prax box sets. By the time you finish that, your adventurers are very likely coming up on retirement to home and family life as their clan begins to reassemble itself. Those are the parents of the next set of PCs.

Generation2: The PC's play through River of Cradles, some Sun County material, and Shadows on the Borderlands, maybe even Strangers in Prax. By the time they finish that, the grandchildren of the first PC's will take part in the Liberation of Sartar, the Dragonrise, etc.

For those third generation characters, you completely skip the Family History section of RQG's generation process, using the character actions of the previous two campaigns to set the Family Events, Passions, Heirlooms etc.

But this is admittedly a HUGE undertaking.

[Kargzant]

There's some very good advice in this thread. I'm wondering if it would be worth it to let the players generate characters but stop at 1620 or 1621. It would lose the characters options to grow passions, but at the same time it would let them start off as new adventurers and let me use the Raus household as written. I will definitely have to spend time adjusting encounters still, but the RQG Bestiary should help with that with nonhuman encounters.

13 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

You could always run Borderlands at its original date, rather than the standard RQiG date of 1625ST.  Character family history would have to be different but there is an early family history available on Jonstown Compendium for a good price.

That's very interesting. Do you know the name of this product? I've bought some Jonstown Compendium books before and I've found them helpful, so I'm more than willing to pick up something to smooth over the process.

Edit: I found the Early Family History on Drivethru and it seems promising. I'll purchase it and look it over.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Kargzant

[soltakss]

19 hours ago, Kargzant said:

Most characters from Sartar of Prax are going to be going to react negatively towards Lunars. It would be interesting for the characters to work for a Lunar Duke, but I need a good reason for him to be given a corner of Prax to settle.

Prax is a wilderness that is full of nothing.

Duke Raus is not in favour with the Red Emperor and has been exiled to Prax to turn the wilderness into something useful.

Basically, it is a punishment for him and a way to prove that he can be useful.

19 hours ago, Kargzant said:

Will I need to update the statistics for enemies? I figure that it won't matter too much at first since the starting mission has little combat and my PCs aren't particularly bloodthirsty. Still, I expect that the encounters might be too easy as written without some tweaking to more powerful RQG PCs.

Maybe up their skills a bit, but perhaps keep them as they are. You might need Runes and Passions.

19 hours ago, Kargzant said:

The module has advice to move towards Balazar and Griffin Mountain afterwards if the GM decides.

That links with the Griffin Mountain campaign.

19 hours ago, Kargzant said:

Are there any RQ3 books that I could buy to flesh out this corner of Prax? Does Shadows on the Borderlands have any connections with the Borderlands material? It has a significant price tag, so if there's a connection I want to make sure what my group plans at the end before I pick up a secondhand copy.

It is good, but doesn't link with the Borderlands campaign at all, as far as I can remember.

 

[jean]

Shadows on the Borderlands contains 3 scenarios:

Gautama Vision : really tied to Sun County

Dyskund Cavern : can be used in the Borderland campaign

A Tale to Tell : tied to Muriah' revenge

I like them, and I think they are good. But you can live without them

 

 

[Ian Absentia]

On 3/9/2022 at 8:22 AM, Kargzant said:

I'm wondering if it would be worth it to let the players generate characters but stop at 1620 or 1621. It would lose the characters options to grow passions, but at the same time it would let them start off as new adventurers and let me use the Raus household as written.

This is more or less what I did when creating my RQG character.  As mentioned in another thread, he was a character that went through chargen in several different Gloranthan gaming systems for different reasons, and most recently for HQ1 in the 1621 era.  I was able to adapt the family history tables (which are optional -- see the inset on p.29) and make some of the parental generation history my character's own.  It works fine.  When I joined the campaign, my character was 5 years older than the other players', but it really worked in context as a wayward child returning to Sartar from Prax as an adult.

Don't worry about growing Passions.  In my opinion, a raft of 6 or more Passions running in excess of 80% is baka.  Focused is better.

Also, note that random rolls on the family history tables is optional, too.  See also, p.29, paragraph 1, in bold.  Feel free to make characters that make sense.  And enjoy Borderlands and environs.  It's amazing!

!i!

[Kargzant]

On a more logistical level, I found the Five Eyes Temple mission interesting but daunting to run. Does anyone have tips for how to have the players deal with 20+ Newtlings without it becoming a slog? I'm thinking of having them encounter friendly NPCs in the various tunnels and use Battle rolls for some combats, but I'd appreciate advice on how to make it shine as the climax of the campaign. I'd also like the PCs to be able to deal with some of the Newtlings non-violently if possible even if those aren't the leaders of the temple complex.

[soltakss]

6 hours ago, Kargzant said:

On a more logistical level, I found the Five Eyes Temple mission interesting but daunting to run. Does anyone have tips for how to have the players deal with 20+ Newtlings without it becoming a slog?

Don't encounter them all at once.

6 hours ago, Kargzant said:

I'm thinking of having them encounter friendly NPCs in the various tunnels and use Battle rolls for some combats, but I'd appreciate advice on how to make it shine as the climax of the campaign.

If you go into it with the intention of rooting out the newtlings, then it will be a series of small fights until you reach the shrine, where the newtlings will defend it to their last.

However, if you go into it with the intention of trying to persuade the newtlings to move, not oppose Duke Raus, or something similar, then it becomes more of a diplomatic mission.

6 hours ago, Kargzant said:

I'd also like the PCs to be able to deal with some of the Newtlings non-violently if possible even if those aren't the leaders of the temple complex.

In our last campaign, the Adventurers were River Voices, so approached the newtlings from a position of fellow water people. It changed things quite a lot.

[SJB]

I think that the most difficult part of a conversion is that Borderlands emulated a 1970s Sam Peckinpah western sensibility. Does one wish to replicate that mood? What’s the post-genocidal endgame? Buggering off to Balazar always seemed weak.

[Soccercalle]

I am also thinking about using Borderlands and other Paris/Prax scenarios in my campaign. We are at the moment playing "Six Seasons in Sartar" and I plan to run "Company of the Dragon" after that. Six Seasons ends in Sea Season 1620 och Company otD starts in Earth Season 1620.

I am thinking that the leaders of the "Third Wind" (the Sartar rebel group) sends the adventurers east on some kind of mission. Or maybe that they just need to avoid the Lunars for the time being. Or maybe they need to find more information for the Dragon part of the larger story. 

I thinking of a time-line like this:

Storm Season 1620: Borderlands Campaign. The group will hate Lunars but I think they can work with Raus as long as he is not an initiate of a Lunar religion.

Sea Season 1621: "One High Priest to Many" (from Strangers in Prax) and "the Cradle" (from Pavis & Big Rubble)

Fire Season 1621: "Gaumatas Vision" (from Shadows on the Borderlands)

They need to be back in Sartar in Storm Season 1621 to run the CotD scenario "Storm´s age" 

 

An alternative is to move "The Forging" to Earth Season 1621. It can make more sense to have the adventurers being fugitives in the east. "The dragon" can then ask them to go west again.

[Kargzant]

I haven't been able to find a writeup for Zola Fel and I'm planning to write one because he's the main water deity of the area. I assume that a lot of the Spirit and Rune Magic that Engizi offers would be suitable for ZF as they're both regional river gods and there's always the Book of Red Magic to flesh things out. What I'm wondering is Zola Fel's relationship with other gods in the region. All I really know he's subservient to Pavis although he's worshiped as a standalone deity as well. Is there anything else I should know about associated and hostile cults?

[Soccercalle]

3 minutes ago, Kargzant said:

I haven't been able to find a writeup for Zola Fel and I'm planning to write one because he's the main water deity of the area. I assume that a lot of the Spirit and Rune Magic that Engizi offers would be suitable for ZF as they're both regional river gods and there's always the Book of Red Magic to flesh things out. What I'm wondering is Zola Fel's relationship with other gods in the region. All I really know he's subservient to Pavis although he's worshiped as a standalone deity as well. Is there anything else I should know about associated and hostile cults?

You can find it in the old Pavis books and in River of Cradles. 

[g33k]

17 minutes ago, Kargzant said:

I haven't been able to find a writeup for Zola Fel ...

 

13 minutes ago, Soccercalle said:

You can find it in the old Pavis books and in River of Cradles. 

Isn't ZF in the Cult Compendium?  I'd check, but it's stowed away in a box and I can't get to it right now...   😞

[Soccercalle]

10 minutes ago, g33k said:

 

Isn't ZF in the Cult Compendium?  I'd check, but it's stowed away in a box and I can't get to it right now...   😞

There as well. In av five page long form. And all the special rune spells can be found in the Red Book of Magic. So if you combine those you have the Zola Fel writeup. (You actually dont read the Red Book of Magic, the spell descriptions are basically the same). I dont think Zola Fel will be in the coming Cults Book but in a future Pavis/Prax book.