How do you think BRP is doing?

[Conrad]

I was reading an old (from 2008) post by Merak Gren, which seemed quite pessimistic. I was wondering what all you BRPers think about how BRP is doing?

I personally think that BRP is undergoing a renaissance, with plenty of interesting supplements and monographs being published, however is it bringing in enough new players? How do you see the future of BRP going?

Edited July 26, 2010 by Conrad
Mongraphs?

[rust]

Over here BRP is still very much a niche game for a small minority of roleplayers, although it

seems this minority is very slowly growing, thanks both to our Call of Cthulhu community that

knows and likes the system and to the good new material now available. I have no doubt that

it would grow faster if all of the material were easily available from other sources than Chao-

sium, too.

As for the future, I think much will depend on the general development of the roleplaying sce-

ne. BRP is really not well supported when it comes to "public relations", so whenever a new

game is published with lots of support and hype it draws the attention away from BRP. For ex-

ample, last year Savage Worlds was the big fashion, and the discussion about it cluttered eve-

ry forum and made it very difficult to raise interest in BRP.

Moreover, at least over here there is still a trend towards very rules light games, preferably

ones with new "indie" features. Sooner or later this trend will end, but until then BRP is out of

the current mainstream, considered by too many roleplayers as "old fashioned".

[cjbowser]

This primarily based on my experiences at conventions and other gamer type gatherings.

It has very little traction around here, at least not publicly. A lot of people don't know what it is, or they think it's Call of Cthulhu. If you set up a BRP game at a con around here, expect it to not make. Set up a Call of Cthulhu game and you'll have twenty people for six slots. I've had better luck filling Mythic Russia games than BRP, and Mythic Russia is a niche game. I think part of the issue stems from the name. If you're not familiar with Basic Roleplaying, what are you going to think when you see the name in a convention book? Is it a system, a concept, or what the guy running the game hopes to get out of the players? At the last gaming convention I couldn't get people to stick around for a BRP game.

I don't think it's a part of being not being the cult of the new, either. There are four popular "games" around here. If you put out feelers looking for people to play a regular game of D&D, Indie, Savage Worlds, or retro (Osric, Harn, Labyrinth Lord, etc.), you'll get players. If you're talking about in a convention setting, you can add Call of Cthulhu to the list.

If I walk into my FLGS, I see the four "games" I mentioned above, along with World of Darkness and Fantasy Flight Games products. I don't see Basic Roleplaying or Call of Cthulhu.

Based on the increasing release schedule, it seems like Chaosium is trying to get product out the door. The licensees are working at it, too. I hope the Cubicle-7 backing of Alephtar helps them get their product on more shelves.

If it's any consolation, I'm starting up a game of Solomon Kane soon. I can proselytize until I'm blue in the face, or go where the gamers are.

[RosenMcStern]

I hope the Cubicle-7 backing of Alephtar helps them get their product on more shelves.

Actually, I am starting to think they are on too many shelves already

Seriously, I think the situation is positive. BRP is now receiving the treatment it should have had in the '80s. GURPS is now dwindling, as its producer is not giving it the support it deserves. BRP is the only real candidate for filling that niche. With an average of 6-7 supplements coming per year, not counting Cthulhu, I think the trend that saw GURPS widespread and BRP marginalized will be inverted soon. And as a side note, we _are_ producing 6-7 full supplements per year, among chaosium and licensees. Check.

SW could be a competitor (harrrumph... we just secured a license, in fact), but it appeals to different tastes.

[tedopon]

If you set up a BRP game at a con around here, expect it to not make.

I filled a six slot game at a con recently in Michigan with eight players, three of which had never heard of the system.

[SDLeary]

SW could be a competitor (harrrumph... we just secured a license, in fact), but it appeals to different tastes.

Perhaps this can be leveraged somewhat? One book, two systems? This would leverage manpower and creativity, and get more supplements out. This type of supplement did well once, I'm not sure what the current take on these are though.

SDLeary

[RosenMcStern]

Perhaps this can be leveraged somewhat? One book, two systems? This would leverage manpower and creativity, and get more supplements out. This type of supplement did well once, I'm not sure what the current take on these are though.

I would say "good". But my current license does not cover this explicitly, and I doubt it would be a good idea to submit this option to Chaosium, at the moment.

I have already toyed with the idea of a double-system book that has both Savage Worlds and OpenQuest stats, instead. The two rulesets are closer than BRP and SW are, and in this case I would have to get permission from Pinnacle only, as OpenQuest is OGL (and Newt himself is producing such hybrids). Of course, once you have it in OQ format, you can use RuneQuest or BRP for it if you want more detail.

If anyone wants to discuss this matter, however, please open another thread.

[Conrad]

I filled a six slot game at a con recently in Michigan with eight players, three of which had never heard of the system.

What genre of game were you running?

[Conrad]

Based on the increasing release schedule, it seems like Chaosium is trying to get product out the door. The licensees are working at it, too. I hope the Cubicle-7 backing of Alephtar helps them get their product on more shelves. .

The Cubicle-7/ Alephtar "coalition" does seem to be putting Chaosium to shame in the amount of quality supplements it has published. I hope that Chaosium cranks its BRP output up a notch.

[tedopon]

What genre of game were you running?

Post apocalypse...robots and mutants.

[Conrad]

Post apocalypse...robots and mutants.

I'm glad to hear that your game was successful in introducing some players, who didn't know about BRP, to the system.

[Conrad]

If it's any consolation, I'm starting up a game of Solomon Kane soon. I can proselytize until I'm blue in the face, or go where the gamers are.

You could always convert your Solomon Kane game to BRP and not tell your players, until its time to generate their characters. Or if you are in a convention just hand them their pregenerated characters BRPified.

I hope that you have better luck running a BRP game in the future.

[Conrad]

Moreover, at least over here there is still a trend towards very rules light games, preferably ones with new "indie" features. Sooner or later this trend will end, but until then BRP is out of the current mainstream, considered by too many roleplayers as "old fashioned".

I thought BRP was a rules lite game. Shows how much an old school fogey like me pays attention to the "indie" RPGs. Do these indie gamers consider D&D an old fashioned game too?

[RosenMcStern]

Do these indie gamers consider D&D an old fashioned game too?

Strangely, not all of them. Since it has been reviewed, some consider 4e "up to date". 4e solves some of the balance problems D&D had in its design, but I doubt it is so forgite in its design, but I do not think there is anything rational behind the definition of what is "trendy".

If you want a definition of what is "rules lite", have a look at the very good 3:16 space carnage game: everyone has three hit points, and a score of 2 to 10 in two skills (there are no rules to add a third skill), a rank, some weapons and selected strengths/weaknesses from his past. That's all. This is what is considered rules lite nowadays.

[rust]

Do these indie gamers consider D&D an old fashioned game too?

Not all of them, as RosenMcStern explained.

In fact, we also have a second, weaker trend towards "old school" games ("the true roots of

roleplaying ..."), where games like the older versions of D&D, Tunnels & Trolls and similar new

games like for example Labyrinth Lord are considered the only good roleplaying games in the

world - pure hack & slay dungeon bashing, mostly.

Ironically most of these roleplayers are not interested in BRP because they see it as "not old

school enough" ...

[Conrad]

Strangely, not all of them. Since it has been reviewed, some consider 4e "up to date". 4e solves some of the balance problems D&D had in its design, but I doubt it is so forgite in its design, but I do not think there is anything rational behind the definition of what is "trendy".

Well if thats how they define "up to date" then BRP has been modernised too.

3:16 looks like a lot of fun to play.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Conrad

[Conrad]

Ironically most of these roleplayers are not interested in BRP because they see it as "not old

school enough" ...

Germany needs an RPG history lesson!

Edited July 26, 2010 by Conrad

[Merak Gren]

BRP has always been my favourite game and without Chaosium, I would have probably not stayed in the hobby.

However, even sometimes BRP is not enough for me. I can see why people call it 'boring', 'old fashioned' or complain about the lack of balance.

From reading books like Burning wheel and HeroQuest I am more interested in defining 'Who' the character is, rather than by 'What' they can do. In many cases, I don't care how good their jump skill is or if their spot is better than their listen.

I've been toying with the idea of deriving broad skill groups from a characters goals and personal beliefs. Anything else just rolls off Attributes.

Something similar to HeroQuest, but one that plays like BRP.

[rust]

Germany needs an RPG history lesson! "When I worra lad, and this site was just all fields, there were only D&D and RQ and Traveller."

Ah, well, I do not really want to stress the point that I am about 30 years older than most of

the other users of most of the German forums I visit ...

[Conrad]

However, even sometimes BRP is not enough for me. I can see why people call it 'boring', 'old fashioned' or complain about the lack of balance.

From reading books like Burning wheel and HeroQuest I am more interested in defining 'Who' the character is, rather than by 'What' they can do. In many cases, I don't care how good their jump skill is or if their spot is better than their listen.

I'm with you on that criticism Merak. I've always been more into playing a character than about the stats. And I try to visualise a character before I start to generate it, making sure that the end character is as close to my idea as I can get it.

I've been toying with the idea of deriving broad skill groups from a characters goals and personal beliefs. Anything else just rolls off Attributes.

Something similar to HeroQuest, but one that plays like BRP.

I think that something like that, which has the potential to bridge the old school\indie gap would be of benefit to BRP.

Since it was one of your posts that inspired this thread, I'd like to ask you what you think the state of BRP is at the present time, and if you see a bright, or uncertain future for BRP?

Edited May 15, 2010 by Conrad

[Conrad]

Ah, well, I do not really want to stress the point that I am about 30 years older than most of

the other users of most of the German forums I visit ...

Judging by the age distribution of this site the default custom user title for most of us should be BRP fogey!

[Merak Gren]

I'm with you on that criticism Merak. I've always been more into playing a character than about the stats. And I try to visualise a character before I start to generate it, making sure that the end character is as close to my idea as I can get it.

I think that something like that, which has the potential to bridge the old school\indie gap would be of benefit to BRP.

Since it was one of your posts that inspired this thread, I'd like to ask you what you think the state of BRP is at the present time, and if you see a bright, or uncertain future for BRP?

Without Chaosiums direct support; comissioning, publishing and marketing new BRP books, things will be difficult. For now, they are relying on what is effectively its fanbase to submit books to them.

Chaosium may not have the resources to push BRP as much as we would like.

For me, the reason BRP is seen as old fashioned is the lack of fresh new perspectives and books aimed at a new generation.

This is maybe one reason why we love it so much?

I don't know. I want it to suceed, but it never generates the hype and talk of post 2000 systems.

[TheShadow]

Overall, I am really enjoying the modest stream of high quality supplements and settings we are seeing. It's a good time to be a BRP player. However, my feeling (admittedly as an isolated gamer here in Japan) is that BRP is not gaining any real traction. There's no growth in the RPG marketplace and increasing fragmentation. Over the last 3 years we have seen D&D fragment enormously into 4e, 3.x holdouts, Pathfinder and the retro-clone players, and we have seen BRP fragment into Chaosium's and Mongoose's adherents, as well as OGL options like OpenQuest. It's a confusing time, and I think the dust will not settle into a pattern with BRP as a major component. It's just one option among many, and that's OK for me. BRP has dedicated and talented writers and fans, and is not going anywhere for a long, long time.

Perversely, the chronically resource poor Chaosium seems to be a good haven for the game. Their high standards and genuine cred make up for a lot, and even if they were given a million bucks to market BRP I don't think it would change the profile of today's RPG market.

[RosenMcStern]

Perversely, the chronically resource poor Chaosium seems to be a good haven for the game. Their high standards and genuine cred make up for a lot, and even if they were given a million bucks to market BRP I don't think it would change the profile of today's RPG market.

Yes, but I doubt Charlie would complain if someone managed to present him with $1M for marketing

Joke mode off. The RPG market is changing, but BRP has shown its ability to remain a main player in it, despite its age. We are speaking about one dozen or more supplements this year, not counting monographs, split between BRP, RQ and OQ. This is the kind of support that the system really needed in the 90s.

[Atgxtg]

For me, the reason BRP is seen as old fashioned is the lack of fresh new perspectives and books aimed at a new generation.

This is maybe one reason why we love it so much?

Well the system hasn't really changed much since it's creation. The biggest changes have been turning from increments of 5% to a full D100 range, and the paring down of the system from RQ to the original BRP. Even D&D has gone through more radical changes that BRP.

It's hard for people to consider a game system as new when it has been around for over 30 years, especially when it is probably older than the majority of gamers.