How do you think BRP is doing?

[rust]

Remember, though, that monographs are only available on the chaosium website and are not in general distributiuon.

This is no longer the case, a few weeks ago Chaosium has begun to make more and more

of the monographs available as PDFs through Drive Thru RPG.

[Thalaba]

Oooh, cool. Didn't someone here suggest doing that waaay back? Maybe they're listening.

[jmlima]

May I remind you that one item out of that "plethora" of historical settings is running for Product of the Year at Ennies?

...

That meaning?...

I do think that a well implemented fantasy setting would do well for the sales and for the popularity, even if it does not win industry prizes.

Industry prizes bear little correlation with sales and popularity. Diaspora is in the nominees for best rules. Does it make it a popular system? No. With large volume sales? No.

Of course one might argue that Chaosium wants BRP to be nothing else than a fringe book, but that seems such a waste that I find it rather unbelievable. Mongoose with what is a revised (for better or for worst) version of BRP is managing to establish several product lines on it.

With a lot less time than BRP they already are bringing new settings (historical and fantasy), and later in the year will bring Elric (fantasy), also milking Glorantha (fantasy) as much as they can, and bringing another historical book (vikings). This proves there is a large market for BRP type engines.

Note - Of course my view is relative and strictly personal. I do not expect (and will not try to convince) anyone to agree with me, and was just voicing my views.

[rust]

Does it make it a popular system? No. With large volume sales? No.

From what I see and hear, Diaspora is a popular system with above average sales.

Mongoose with what is a revised (for better or for worst) version of BRP is managing to establish several product lines on it.

True, but Mongoose is a much bigger company than Chaosium, with both more personnel and

more money. To compare Mongoose with Chaosium is a bit like comparing Boeing with Cessna.

[kaddawang]

If someone cobbled together a fantasy(or whatever)-setting of the same calibre as Rome, I'm pretty sure it would be up for awards as well.

I recently splurged on Stupor Mundi and Crusaders of the Amber Coast, and was suitably impressed with both of them. Any plans of follow-ups?

As for BRP, it still lacks that crucial catch-setting. While many of the monographs are good, i don't see them selling BRP to anyone who isn't already sold.

Chaosium has The Chronicles of Future Earth lining up, I hope it will be good, but I'm not entirely convinced... We shall see.

[RosenMcStern]

That meaning?...

That meaning that people are now aware that the system is alive and kicking. Two years ago BRP was only "the old, old system for Cthulhu" in people's minds. You may not realize it, but it counts. It counts a lot.

BTW, your comments about sales make me suspect you do not have that much data to support your opinion. Apart from your uninformed ideas about Diaspora, Rome has sold darn well - please note it is already Silver on DriveThru. None of the Mongoose RQ line is even Copper there - and they are not available anywhere else in PDF.

Edit: I checked better, and actually, some of Mongoose's products are Copper level.

If someone cobbled together a fantasy(or whatever)-setting of the same calibre as Rome, I'm pretty sure it would be up for awards as well.

I recently splurged on Stupor Mundi and Crusaders of the Amber Coast, and was suitably impressed with both of them. Any plans of follow-ups?

Crusaders itself is a follow-up of Stupor Mundi, as is Merrie England in some ways. We have some more medieval stuff planned for late 2010, and of course Imperial China. A Rome campaign book will follow in 2011.

As for Fantasy... you have Glorantha, what more do you need? Oh, and you can take the entire line of OpenQuest supplements and use it with BRP.

As for BRP, it still lacks that crucial catch-setting.

It doesn't. That setting is Call of Cthulhu.

Edited July 20, 2010 by RosenMcStern
imprecise quotation of sales levels of Mongoose stuff

[Pete Nash]

BTW, your comments about sales make me suspect you do not have that much data to support your opinion. Apart from your uninformed ideas about Diaspora, Rome has sold darn well - please note it is already Silver on DriveThru. None of the Mongoose RQ line is even Copper there - and they are not available anywhere else in PDF.

Just an observation, but Rome doesn't appear on DriveThru's '2010 ENnie Nominees' list - which is a bit of an oversight. At least, not under the "Explore the nominees here on DriveThruRPG.com" link anyway.

I have no idea about the validity of the ENnies or its reach (I knew nothing about them before I was told about the nominations), but I suppose this is a chance for all of us to raise the profile of BRP in the eyes of the roleplaying community. So send a vote if you love the old workhorse!

[rust]

That meaning that people are now aware that the system is alive and kicking. Two years ago BRP was only "the old, old system for Cthulhu" in people's minds. You may not realize it, but it counts. It counts a lot.

Indeed.

Until recently people told me they were not interested in BRP because they did not play Call

of Cthulhu and had played "all that other old stuff" already, decades ago. Nowadays I get PMs

on my German "home forum" where people ask me whether I would recommend this or that

new BRP supplement (with Rome and Crusaders leading), and people proudly present their

new BRP stuff in the "Just Arrived" thread.

True, this still does not happen very often, and definitely not as often as I would like, but the

fact that it now happens at all shows that something is changing for the better, and I think

the fact that the many good BRP monographs are now available on DTRPG will help a lot to

reinforce that change.

[RosenMcStern]

Just an observation, but Rome doesn't appear on DriveThru's '2010 ENnie Nominees' list - which is a bit of an oversight. At least, not under the "Explore the nominees here on DriveThruRPG.com" link anyway.

A problem due to them expecting to find it under the CB7 entry while it is Alephtar only on DriveThru. Just mailed Matt McElroy to fix it.

So send a vote if you love the old workhorse!

Vote by following this link. And remember, you have to label the product as "1" to say "it's my favourite".

[seneschal]

I'm grateful to Alephtar Games and others who have been putting out solid historical and semi-historical campaign settings for BRP. It's a niche that most other game publishers have ignored or addressed only as supplemental to their fantasy lines (D&D, Rolemaster, I'm looking at you!). Let's face it, too, BRP needs to find a new niche. With the publications of Nemesis, Trail of Cthulhu and Realms of Cthulhu, Call of Cthulhu is no longer the only game in town for Lovecraftian horror. Chaosium can no longer afford to coast along on Mr. H.P.'s tentacles. So I agree that the BRP renaissance of the last couple years really is a renaissance, a positive and tangible thing. And the Enies nominations are good press, whatever you think of the validity of the Enies themselves.

That said, despite all the shiny new product BRP has only minimal shelf space at my local game stores. I can find the Call of Cthulhu core book and one or two of its most recent supplements. But the Big Gold Book, BRP Rome, Merrie England, et. al., are absent. If I wasn't a regular on these discussion boards, I'd never know they existed. One can argue that online sales are supplanting brick-and-mortar shops, but that's preaching (or selling) to the choir. You have to have attractive product on retail shelves to draw in the next generation of players and customers - and to persuade the old farts that you're still alive and worth playing.

So, in addition to diligent fans pumping out award-winning material, how can BRP grab more attention for itself?

[dragonewt]

So, in addition to diligent fans pumping out award-winning material, how can BRP grab more attention for itself?

Provide a world and background that catches and holds the imagination and desires of the majority of the role-playing public.

The use of good, imaginative, unique and defining artwork also helps to create the feel of a world.

Additionally, the new popular "world" needs to be matched by game mechanics that meet the needs of the people attracted to that type of work (degree of complexity, speed of reward, feeling of control and understanding).

Think of what made the likes of "Greyhawk", "Spelljammer", "Harry Potter" and (dare I say it) "Twilight" popular and engaging (for the masses).

Hmmm, Vivamort with sparkles -

Edited July 20, 2010 by dragonewt

[rust]

Provide a world and background that catches and holds the imagination and desires of the majority of the role-playing public.

I am afraid this order is several magnitudes too tall.

The majority of the roleplaying public does already have such games, and I would consider it

unwise for Chaosium to try to compete directly with games like D&D or Pathfinder, because

the chance of a success would be minimal at best.

The roleplaying style supported by BRP is a minority style, and I would very much prefer Cha-

osium (and others) to publish material aimed at that minority instead of adding just a few mo-

re publications to the already mostly saturated majority market.

[seneschal]

Another things is that those exciting new settings and campaigns need to be originals, not licenses of a comic, movie, book series, or TV show. Most of Chaosium's past successes have been licensed products ... but once the license expires or is passed to another publisher, the TV show or comic book is canceled, the blockbuster fades into film history the show is over for the game as well. RuneQuest/Glorantha used to be such a setting, but somehow it moved on, too. We need a new "Glorantha" for BRP, whatever genre or historical period it happens to be for.

(Ducks in ancient Rome ... hmmmm. Naw, Disney might sue. )

[Pete Nash]

(Ducks in ancient Rome ... hmmmm. Naw, Disney might sue. )

Sacred geese perhaps?

[rust]

Just an observation, but Rome doesn't appear on DriveThru's '2010 ENnie Nominees' list ...

Rome is now on the list: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/rpg_ennies.php?manufacturers_id=2555

[SDLeary]

Around here (SF Bay Area), you can find the BGB at stores, along with Trollslayer and the three Alephtar BRP books (though the mRQ stuff is still absent). Now, that did NOT happen until after the CB7 alliance, so at some stores things might be progressing more slowly. But there is certainly a much more visible presence than there was even just 4 months ago.

SDLeary

Edited July 20, 2010 by SDLeary

[Agentorange]

It doesn't. That setting is Call of Cthulhu.

Yeah, but what if horror RPGing isn't your cup of tea ? If you think of RPG's in general fantasy and SF tend to be the big players.

That said there are a couple of settings coming up. Shaira's Chronicles of Future Earth sounds very promising to my mind ( as long it's supported, last thing we want is the typical chaosium situation: product released.....4 years later after everybody has lost interest next supplement straggles out......Dorastor I'm looking at you here )

Also Rod's default setting for Classic Fantasy is to be detailed in Vol 2 of that worthy tome, if that takes off maybe we will see more material for that

Finally I think The Green is a really good setting, I'd love to see it given the full distribution deal, professional artwork, expanded contents. Reading through it there's easily another volume or two's worth of ideas there.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Agentorange

[seneschal]

But as we all know, it's not easy being Green.

[Puck]

But as we all know, it's not easy being Green.

Finally I think The Green is a really good setting, I'd love to see it given the full distribution deal, professional artwork, expanded contents. Reading through it there's easily another volume or two's worth of ideas there.

Thank you very much for the boost of confidence. I have been trying to write a larger campaign style adventure for this but it is coming along pretty slowly. Your enthusiasm helps to give me a needed kick. I have a lot of ideas for plenty of expansions, but I do not know if any will ever see the light of day. I would of course love to see Chaosium adopt the Green as a fully supported setting, but somehow I doubt if that will happen.

[Puck]

I think one issue with gaining support for a brand new fantasy setting for BRP is that there is so much really quality stuff out there. Glorantha second, and third age well as Stormbringer stuff is still pretty available to those that want it bad enough. Tons of the new nice historical stuff can also be run with a fantasy twist. Personally, I have found that there is just too many cool new things to play BRP with and to little gaming time.

That being said, I would love to see a fully supported BRP fantasy world with plenty of supplements and adventures lining the shelves of the local game shop.

[RosenMcStern]

Yeah, but what if horror RPGing isn't your cup of tea ? If you think of RPG's in general fantasy and SF tend to be the big players.

Really? The big players here in Italy are:

a) D&D

Call of Cthulhu

c) World of Darkness

d) Sine Requie (local horror)

D&D is first, but horror games follow shortly. Cthulhu has competition now, but it can thrive.

Also Rod's default setting for Classic Fantasy is to be detailed in Vol 2 of that worthy tome, if that takes off maybe we will see more material for that

Finally I think The Green is a really good setting, I'd love to see it given the full distribution deal, professional artwork, expanded contents. Reading through it there's easily another volume or two's worth of ideas there.

Rod's and Puck's settings are good. But what distinguishes them from the plethora of other settings? I think Chaosium will do them justice, but with Glorantha as a competitor for d100 fans, what is their possible market share?

[wbcreighton]

Really? The big players here in Italy are:

a) D&D

Call of Cthulhu

c) World of Darkness

d) Sine Requie (local horror)

Is that based on sales data ? Personal observation ? Something else ?

I think it is interesting information. We are all writing in with observations from areas from all over the globe, and it shows the diversity of our gaming realities. It makes it hard to judge what is happening elsewhere but it is helpful to hear of the differences. We are also talking about different issues. Some of us are talking about business market share, viability etc, and some of us are talking about having BRP be popular.

BTW the Alephtar books haven't hit the shelves of my local gaming shop ( in Vancouver Canada ) yet. Although they do sell a lot of Magic cards and miniatures games like War Machine.

Edited July 21, 2010 by wbcreighton

[wbcreighton]

BTW, your comments about sales make me suspect you do not have that much data to support your opinion. Apart from your uninformed ideas about Diaspora, Rome has sold darn well - please note it is already Silver on DriveThru. None of the Mongoose RQ line is even Copper there - and they are not available anywhere else in PDF.

What do the copper and silver seller designations mean ?

[wbcreighton]

Rod's and Puck's settings are good. But what distinguishes them from the plethora of other settings? I think Chaosium will do them justice, but with Glorantha as a competitor for d100 fans, what is their possible market share?

Well with Rod's setting Classic Fantasy, he hasn't really detailed the setting in print yet. The book is really about establishing a way of playing BRP to emulate DnD. It is the top selling BRP monograph on Chaosium's web site . Maybe it isn't important what differentiates the setting as much as what it is emulating. Sometimes you can go a long ways riding on some one else's coat tails. I also do sense from reading posts on websites and forums that there are plenty of D100 or BRP players that don't like Glorantha or are tired of it and want to try something new. Who knows how much actual market share they can grab, as long as it is sustainable.

Edited July 21, 2010 by wbcreighton

[Conrad]

.

That said, despite all the shiny new product BRP has only minimal shelf space at my local game stores. I can find the Call of Cthulhu core book and one or two of its most recent supplements. But the Big Gold Book, BRP Rome, Merrie England, et. al., are absent. If I wasn't a regular on these discussion boards, I'd never know they existed. One can argue that online sales are supplanting brick-and-mortar shops, but that's preaching (or selling) to the choir. You have to have attractive product on retail shelves to draw in the next generation of players and customers - and to persuade the old farts that you're still alive and worth playing.

My local games stores all have plenty of BRP stuff on their selves. Two have all the BRP stuff (Big Gold book, Alephtar products, and huge amounts of Mongoose products, and the Open Quest stuff ) and one has plenty of CoC products. From my local viewpoint, BRP in all its forms isn't doing too badly.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Conrad