Could Ravenloft work as a Call of Cthulhu scenario?

[davewire]

I’m a big fan of D&D’s original Ravenloft module and its many rereleases over the years including 5th Edition’s Curse of Strahd. However, a criticism I have often found for the module, especially for Curse of Strahd, is that D&D is game of heroes, not horrors, and that it is difficult to bring a sense of dread to a game that wasn’t really built with dread mechanics in mind.

The Keeper Tips book says on page 8 that “[you shouldn’t] feel that you have to limit yourself to Lovecraftian horror. Gothic horror… can all be easily enjoyed with Call of Cthulhu. Explore the genres!” When I read that line, I immediately thought of the stats for vampires found in the Keeper’s Rulebook and it suddenly sparked an idea. What if I just ran Ravenloft as a Call of Cthulhu scenario!?

I thought about how and where I would add sanity saves as investigators come across the horrific scenes of blood drained corpses and the dead rising from the grave, failing sanity checks and developing a fear of or even a taste for blood, delving into the mystery of the vampire, the lore of how he came to be and how to stop him, the investigations to discover where his secret tomb lies, the horrifying possibility of encountering an awakened and angry Strahd and all the terrible ways it could end.

What are your thoughts? Does this seem possible or am I trying too hard to force a square peg into a round hole? Are there any suggestions on how this could be achieved?

Edited May 15, 2022 by davewire

[Grimmshade]

I would personally probably use Pulp Cthulhu, but I think it sounds awesome. (I'd probably also use the melee combat rules from Dark Ages, Invictus, or Cthulhu Through the Ages)

[g33k]

<ahem>

Paging @Chaot
@Chaot to the doomed courtesy telephone, please...

[AlonsoAguilurk]

Having played a somewhat lackluster campaign of Curse of Strahd, I do think it can be done potentially better in CoC, but you'd probably have to change a lot of stuff, particularly the more fantastical aspects and the recurrence of combat encounters. I think a Dark Ages translation would work just fine, and someone talked about it on Reddit once: 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by AlonsoAguilurk
typo

[Baron]

I would look at it sideways, if you will. Picture a gothic horror story as in Bram Stoker. Put your CoC hat on. Open your Strahd material. Then re-write the key to suit. You're making something new, because as-written Ravenloft is about killing monsters. You can certainly do it. But rather than CoC or Pulp or Dark Ages, you might want to consider using something like Ghastly Affair, which I think is really designed for that sort of thing. And you know what, I just might do that!

[Darius West]

On 5/16/2022 at 8:13 AM, davewire said:

What are your thoughts? Does this seem possible or am I trying too hard to force a square peg into a round hole? Are there any suggestions on how this could be achieved?

Look, you can do this, but I think you're pushing mud uphill.

If you are going to run a Vampire scenario in CoC, why use Ravenloft at all?  I mean, while it is great at bringing a Vampire aesthetic to D&D, the notion of retrofitting the same setting into CoC seems, well, an odd choice.

Vampires are one of the creatures that Lovecraft didn't actually bother with much in his mythos, and ultimately CoC is about Lovecraft monsters.  He does comver hematophages a little, but not with any depth.  Lovecraft didn't want to rehash Stoker.

Now to be fair, there are write-ups for Vampires for use in CoC, but Strahd is essentially a rip-off of Brahm Stoker's Dracula done for D&D, so why not do the whole Carpathian Transylvanian setting?   I know it is pretty hackneyed, and IRL the woodlands of Transylvania are actually very beautiful and kind of cheery, and not the wolf-haunted misty wilderness you think you have signed on for.  Nevertheless, Stoker has plenty of good lore and a great setting, if you opt for the 19th Century London arc of the story.

In fact there is a CoC scenario pack called The Fungi from Yuggoth which includes a whole Transylvanian scenario without any vampires, that is passable.

Regardless, there is a literal ton of vampire fiction out there to draw upon these days, just be careful not to sparkle too brightly in the sunlight.

That being said, if I were going to translate Ravenloft (the specific D&D product) into CoC I would opt for a real world and possibly even contemporary setting. Consider a failing middle American city like Gary Indiana (already pretty horrific), and I would have the vampiric element actually using gate spells to enter Strahd's demi-plane, and quite possibly some sort of sick twist on things that would keep some of the characters alive, such as Strahd believing them to be reincarnations of his former lovers or favorite minions.  That being said, it will be hard to make Strahd as stat-tough as he is in D&D unless you are very familiar with CoC. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Darius West

[davewire]

4 hours ago, Darius West said:

Look, you can do this, but I think you're pushing mud uphill.

If you are going to run a Vampire scenario in CoC, why use Ravenloft at all?  I mean, while it is great at bringing a Vampire aesthetic to D&D, the notion of retrofitting the same setting into CoC seems, well, an odd choice.

Vampires are one of the creatures that Lovecraft didn't actually bother with much in his mythos, and ultimately CoC is about Lovecraft monsters.  He does comver hematophages a little, but not with any depth.  Lovecraft didn't want to rehash Stoker.

CoC doesn’t just have to be Lovecraftian horror. The game is an entire toolset on how to run horror mysteries and I think, with little work, Ravenloft can be run as an investigative scenario. The premise of original module follows a group traversing the halls of Castle Ravenloft, seeking a way to put an end to Strahd and escape the misty borders of Barovia whilst trying to avoid the eye and ire of its dread lord and maintain their composure. Searching for ways to survive a powerful entity that is beyond human means by arming one’s self with knowledge and discovering powerful artifacts is very CoC.

I’d mainly want to retain the story and setting of Ravenloft. Traversing the castle would be more of an abstract than a dungeon crawl as the investigators search for hidden libraries of arcane knowledge and crypts containing relics and lore. You wouldn’t be running tons of monster encounters like you would in D&D. This isn’t a fantasy hack and slash game. A few good monster encounters, maybe with some zombies or other undead, a lesser vampire or two, and Strahd himself would be more than enough for a CoC encounter.

Obviously Strahd would have to be more than just a vampire as laid out in the Keeper’s Rulebook. He’s also a wizard and in life an accomplished soldier and his stats should reflect that.

If you did want to add in a bit of Lovecraftian horror, I believe that the aloof Dark Powers of Ravenloft from which Strahd draws his power and was transformed could fit in with the themes of the mythos.

[AlonsoAguilurk]

Without going into spoilers, you might also get plenty of inspiration from something like CoC's Reign of Terror, which shares plenty of common ground with Gothic Horror. 

[ThornPlutonius]

See if you can find a copy of the D20 Call of Cthulhu, published by Wizards of the Coast. It could be of some help.

 

[Darius West]

On 5/17/2022 at 3:07 AM, davewire said:

CoC doesn’t just have to be Lovecraftian horror. T

I agree.  Horror doesn't have to be Lovecraftian, even in CoC.  I also suggested that CoC does indeed have rules for Vampires.  My issue lay elsewhere.  

On 5/17/2022 at 3:07 AM, davewire said:

Searching for ways to survive a powerful entity that is beyond human means by arming one’s self with knowledge and discovering powerful artifacts is very CoC.

In the short form, I agree with this.  In detail, Ravenloft has loads of nasty CR7+ monsters and CoC character are basically zero levelers.  Most D&D monsters could kill a CoC character with a good sneeze.  I mean, 3 rabid rats are probably more than a match for "Lionel the Librarian", let alone a goddamn vampire.  Also, retrofitting plenty of documents/handouts into Ravenloft to make it work for a CoC investigation seems like a lot of work.  Fun work potentially, and the temptation is always to give away too much info.

On 5/17/2022 at 3:07 AM, davewire said:

I’d mainly want to retain the story and setting of Ravenloft. Traversing the castle would be more of an abstract than a dungeon crawl as the investigators search for hidden libraries of arcane knowledge and crypts containing relics and lore. 

IMO, Ravenloft is still an inferior as a setting to 19th century Europe a la Stoker's Dracula.  Why opt for D&D faux Dracula when you could just do CoC Dracula?  The source material for 19th Century London/UK is available in C'thulhu by Gaslight.

That being said I don't think your approach to the material is bad, even if I may seem too critical.  You clearly have something in mind that perhaps I am not quite understanding.

On 5/17/2022 at 3:07 AM, davewire said:

This isn’t a fantasy hack and slash game. A few good monster encounters, maybe with some zombies or other undead, a lesser vampire or two, and Strahd himself would be more than enough for a CoC encounter.

 Two thumbs up for this davewire.  Most CoC characters are zero level by D&D standards.  3 rabid rats will do for your average CoC "Lionel the Librarian" character in about 2 rounds.  Most CoC player spend the game avoiding encounters until they have ransacked the property for handouts and clues and fervently hope they never meet "the monster".  I still worry that you will be stacking too many encounters against them.

On 5/17/2022 at 3:07 AM, davewire said:

If you did want to add in a bit of Lovecraftian horror, I believe that the aloof Dark Powers of Ravenloft from which Strahd draws his power and was transformed could fit in with the themes of the mythos.

Personally, I'd sooner adapt Stephen King's "Salem's Lot" to CoC.  It even has the Book of Eibon in it already.

[Baron]

Well, I've actually decided to do it, use Ghastly Affair to run Harkers through an investigative Stokerish Ravenloft (1&2). A few of my gaming friends are excited. Sure, there'll be a lot of writing involved, but I think it will pay off.

[Chaot]

On 5/15/2022 at 11:23 PM, g33k said:

<ahem>

Paging @Chaot
@Chaot to the doomed courtesy telephone, please...

That's very kind of you to think of me g33k!

On 5/16/2022 at 1:07 PM, davewire said:

The game is an entire toolset on how to run horror mysteries and I think, with little work, Ravenloft can be run as an investigative scenario. The premise of original module follows a group traversing the halls of Castle Ravenloft, seeking a way to put an end to Strahd and escape the misty borders of Barovia whilst trying to avoid the eye and ire of its dread lord and maintain their composure. Searching for ways to survive a powerful entity that is beyond human means by arming one’s self with knowledge and discovering powerful artifacts is very CoC.

Yeah. I've been running games in the Domains of Dread on and off for years using BRP. If you do a search for BRP Ravenloft you'll see a bunch of random things I've written down.

I love it. I think it fits perfectly. Granted, I'm using Elric! as a base rules set so the characters are a bit more hearty than an Investigator but the concept is really strong. In fact, when Curse of Strahd first came out my impulse was to run it with CoC 6th edition. (I'm not really up to speed on 7th edition).

You're spot on here. The great thing about it is dropping all the crappy D&Disms and reimagining the scenario through CoC mechanics. Combat takes a back seat to conversation, exploration and planning. Strahd is also a great foil because the dude loves to hear himself talk. He's so much more powerful than the PCs that he has no problem toying with them. I think it's perfect for CoC.

[g33k]

4 hours ago, Chaot said:

That's very kind of you to think of me g33k!

...

I'll be honest:  horror really ain't my cuppa.
<shrugs>

But I gotta give you props, man, that custom BRP/Ravenloft sheet I saw was beautiful !

 

[SleepySleuth]

I'd suggest reading "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward". The villain was the closest thing to a classic vampire Lovecraft wrote about, as far as I know. It might give you some extra material or inspiration to work from.