Multiculting in Glorantha

[svensson]

On 6/4/2022 at 6:30 PM, Ironwall said:

So we know the cult breakdowns of several cultures, but how many people initiate into multiple cults I doubt there's a list of specifics like how many engizi/orlanth or ernalda/chalana arroy but how often would you find a person in glorantha who is a member of multiple cults in general

Very often.

It's so common among Orlanthi as to not even be a subject for comment. I would expect that among more rigid cultures [Yelmites, for example] that it is somewhat rarer.

Obviously, individual worshipers cannot 'mix' cults with certain dogmatic strictures [Yelmalio cultists may not worship any cult that requires Ignite or other fire-producing spells as Fire is the Lost Power, for example]. Generally multi-cult membership is kept within the pantheon, but certain outliers exist. Among the Bison and Rhino Peoples of Prax, for example, is a strong Orlanth-worshiping minority, but EVERY male is still initiated into Waha and EVERY female is initiated into Eiritha.

The way I do it in RQG character generation is that the player chooses one 'free' cult wherein they were initiated at 16 or so, have 3 Rune Points [and associated spells], and 5 pts. of Spirit Magic, and have the cult skill bonuses. If they wish to initiate into a second cult, they must 'pay' a point off their rolled POW for 1 Rune Point and one Rune spell, no Spirit Magic, and the cult skills of Cult Lore, Meditate, and Worship. They are recent initiates into the second cult, having just been 'confirmed' into the faith.

So, for example, my Rhino Rider wants to be a Wind Lord of Orlanth. But as a Praxian male his place in society is determined by his membership in Waha. His 'main cult' is Orlanth Adventurous [3 Rune Points, 5 pts. of Spirit Magic, all the cult skills] and his 'minor' cult is Waha [1 RP, no Spirit Magic, reduced cult skills] but he must still abide by Waha's Heal 1 restriction and I specifically put some of his bonus skill points into Peaceful Cut for role-playing and ritual reasons.

[svensson]

4 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Bolthor Brighteyes is noted as "belonging to many cults", and presumably this doesn't merely mean lay membership and subcults.

Bolthor was famous for complaining at the costs of being an initiate of multiple cults... 10% of your annual income is expensive for a King!

[Akhôrahil]

6 minutes ago, svensson said:

Bolthor was famous for complaining at the costs of being an initiate of multiple cults... 10% of your annual income is expensive for a King!

Need to find fixed-cost cults instead.

[French Desperate WindChild]

I'm not on the same line than @svensson 🙂

Don't know who is the more " canon " however here is my glorantha  (of course everything I write is in addition of the rules, test, exclusion, etc...):

 

I consider four levels of religion membership

1) you are part of a community worshipping a pantheon ( one god can be found in several pantheon)

2) you may join a cult as lay member of a pantheon very easily. For a short period / opportunity or for a long time / devotion.

As a lay member you may obtain some advantage (training, etc..) and you show your devotion by participating in ceremony and prayers (to ask help or to thank for help). Of course you may sacrifice what you want (but there are probably some minimum amount to give to not offend the god or the cult)

3) you may join a cult as initiate of a pantheon and learn some cult secrets (well, but is not really important in rqg, you can learn some rune spells too)

The first initiation is "easy" as any community gives you the opportunity to join a cult around the rites of adulthood.

The next initiations would be, in my glorantha, possible but more difficult. Your actual priest (first cult) may ask herself if you are still a god worshipper or if you want only stay in the cult for some social advantages, like an opportunist... Same for the new cult. Why this guy would like to join us ? Does he love the other god ? Will he love my god ? What if he has to choose ? etc...

4) you may now be a holy person (rune level). You probably don't have to prove anything, and your issue, if there is a issue, would be more with your god (that is a npc for me, not just a source of spell) than with your priest.

 

but that the first dimension, there is another: the relationship between the two gods / cults (or more)

- Some cults in the same pantheon are very closed :

for example Issaries and Lankhor Mhy. Both explore to find things (artefact, antiquities, ...), both trade (knowledge), so here I don't see any difficulties

- Some cults in the same pantheon are very far apart

for examples Chalana Arroy and Humakt. One heal without violence, the other kill with violence (and style, of course). How the priests of the two cults will understand you want to stay in the first and join the second. Sounds weird, isn't it ? But it should be possible, if you can demonstrate the pertinence. Very rare but possible

 

Maybe you may want to join a cult outside your pantheon

- It could be a a spirit cult. Sounds weird for your primary cult but why not. After all it is just a little spirit, no shadow on our great god (of course if you are a water cult initiate and want to join oakfed cult... that's not really acceptable)

- it could be a very strange cult, unknown by your community. Then you have to demonstrate there is no danger for your community, for your loyalties

 

- and it could be a known cult of another pantheon,

is this pantheon associated, in your community, with ennemy ? (I'm not talking about sun versus darkness, but more a local temporal issue : some orlanthi clan are friend with trolls, some are ennemies) You realy want to join our ennemy's god ? Are you a traitor ?

Will the initiation change yourself, your soul ? (say you want to join aldrya or kyger litor , your soul will be changed) Not sure your first cult/god will recognize you

Is your 'new' cult associated by the runes, goals, etc... ? For example an Issaries merchant want to join Argan Argar ? Probably easier to be accepted by both cults than trying to join Gorakiki

 

so, in my glorantha, you will find few people initiate inseveral structured cults. Because they are structured, strong and need a lot from you (the 10% of course, but more than that, your loyalty, fidelity, faith) and any deviation is suspicious. More (not a lo however) may have some "alliance" with a local spirit, the nymph who is our neighbour, etc..

But you will find them, and of course pc would get the opportunity to join or would try to. Just they would have to demonstrate (deeds, favor, roleplay, ...) they are good reasons.

 

two remarks then :

1) the tithes: anything you gain should be included as income, the swords you plunder, the cows you were gifted after a raid *, any benefits you make during a trade.

Remember you can pay with money, but with anything acceptable for your cult (food, gear, etc)

* except if the tithe is taken by the ring before the distribution. But if you are multi initiate, consider only your main local cult is already "paid" not the others

 

2) the creation : I will stop this post, but you can see here what I do for the skill. For the magic it is easy, you have 3 rune points and 5 spirit spell points to distribute

 

it seems I have reach the lay member status level in @Joerg LM subcult. Hope I will not be cursed

[svensson]

On 6/9/2022 at 1:22 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

I'm not on the same line than @svensson 🙂

Well, YGMV, French. That's fine.

I'm presuming in my post that the cults involved have some kind of relationship with each other. Either they'd be in the same pantheon or are otherwise related. In my Orlanth and Waha Praxian nomad example, canon says the Orlanth cult forms a significant minority in both the Bison and Rhino peoples. If I accept that, then it's easy to presume that the worship of Storm Bull [a member of both Orlanth's and Waha's pantheons] was the most likely agent of Orlanth's minority of worshipers. So among those peoples, there is a solid friendship so long as all the restrictions of both cults are obeyed.

The same could be said of Seven Mothers worshiping Sables Riders... remember that the PC's generation of Sable Riders were raised as the #1 tribe on the plains. This led to a lot of hard feelings among the other tribes [especially the Bison People, for both religious and personal reasons]. And there isn't anything wrong with a Sable brave worshiping Waha-of-the-ancestors and still worshiping the new and more vibrant faith of the Seven Mothers.

There will be times when two possible faiths will be incompatible. In the Sun Counties [all of them, not just the one in Prax], Gustbran and Mahome are as necessary cults as they are with any society. Not only smiths, but potters, charcoalers, bakers, jewelry-makers, anybody that uses Fire as a central part of their profession requires Gustbran's and Mahome's blessings. And these people are NOT Yelmalions. As much as their society needs them, they work the forbidden element of Fire and can have no outward political power or social prominence. No one can be an initiate of both deities. But the wise Sun Count pays attention when Gustbrans and Mahomes speak... without these people their society would devolve into scratch farmers having to beg weapons from others.

Edited June 13, 2022 by svensson

[Kloster]

RQG is quite clear (RQG p 275): "It is possible for an adventurer to be an initiate of more than one cult. They must pass the appropriate tests, and this always requires that the cults be compatible. They must also tithe to each temple, and perform properly and completely all duties and responsibilities to each temple.".

The only questions are: "What are compatible cults?" and "How frequent is it?". My take is that compatible cults are cults at least marked as Neutral in table RQG p 311 (IIRC, that rules came from RQ3's Gods of Glorantha). For frequency, I already explained that I think the global proportion is quite low (David Scott spoke of 1% and I agreed with him), and that the higher you go in power and social status, the higher the proportion will be (including here the higher ranks of the various cults).

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 minute ago, svensson said:

Well, YGMV, French. That's fine.

I'm presuming in my post that the cults involved have some kind of relationship with each other. Either they'd be in the same pantheon or are otherwise related. In my Orlanth and Waha Praxian nomad example, canon says the Orlanth cult forms a significant minority in both the Bison and Rhino peoples. If I accept that, then it's easy to presume that the worship of Storm Bull [a member of both Orlanth's and Waha's pantheons] was the most likely agent of Orlanth's minority of worshipers. So among those peoples, there is a solid friendship so long as all the restrictions of both cults are obeyed.

I agree with that sir, my difference is   "very often" (for me : not often)  and "the orlanthi praxian is Waha too" (for me the praxian could be Orlanthi, as you just say, OR Waha OR Storm bull OR Eiritha OR other depending on the different people)

[Kloster]

Of course, when I spoke of compatibility, there must be no explicit provision against it, even if the cults are friendly or better.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Kloster

[JRE]

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

it seems I have reach the lay member status level in @Joerg LM subcult. Hope I will not be cursed

Welcome to the Verbose subcult of Lhankor Mhy, the god that allows you to join other cults as long as you then write up their secrets and share it with the Library.

Which is why only a few people will trust you with secrets. And the main reason why I usually limit multiple initiation to associate cults, or very open cults (City Gods, River Gods, Uleria...). Otherwise it smells of illumination or Arkatism, and that can be bad for your health. Torches and pitchforks bad. 

[scott-martin]

4 hours ago, JRE said:

Which is why only a few people will trust you with secrets.

Right. You've got to Impress those Examiners to let you in.

Which is why we're having a sale on spell trading throughout the network this season to give you the benefits of multi-cult flexibility without all the headaches of community compliance. Sell one, get one. Sell two, get three. And if you're willing and able to give us six points of spell, we'll give you back a full dozen of your choice from network inventory. (Offer void where taboo. Trade protocols apply.)

A little more seriously, MG is pretty open to multiple initiation because I see the Gloranthan soul as a rewritable medium. What worked for you as a kid or a young mom might not really apply any more as you age or your community needs to evolve to keep up with the times. Some people grow up in an Orlanth (Orlanth + Ernalda) environment and stay there their entire lives. Others, pushed or pulled into more complicated adventures, need to change horses. Some cultures develop a natural progression where you usually pass from entry-level cults to cults that reflect more "mature" life stages. There is a lot of tension in the storm tribe, for example, between whether you see classic Orlanth as mostly for kids or mostly for patriarchs, but Voria conventionally transitions toward the mother stages and then beyond. Take that part up with your priests. If you don't like the answer, become a priest yourself.

Some of these adventurers drop their initial cult affiliations and rewrite them with something more relevant to their current stage of life. These are converts. The new cult tells them to let go of the old initiation, the old cult takes the old magic away. I think this is rarer in Gloranthan polytheism than in modern earthly models, but it happens when the examiners or higher-level cult leadership (on either side of the process) decide that the new you is incompatible with the old one. Ernalda is not compatible with Voria in mainstream Esrolia right now, for example, although this might change in the Hero Wars era.

The question is which side insists on the erasure of the old slot. IMG entry-level lunar cults are theologically OK with letting an Orlanth person come in and keep the old identity. This isn't the Protestant Reformation here. You get a new shirt and make a sincere effort to pay attention to what the missionaries tell you. (Sometimes it doesn't work, but that's a whole other story.) But most of the time, you're still Harthang from the Vale or whoever you were before. You maintain most of your old community consciousness . . . family structure, generational performance, your sense of who you are as a person, only now with a little bit extra. You're going where you need to go as an individual. The old cult might feel threatened or otherwise cut you off. That's on them. Find something else to do on Windsday. Politics can swing this all over the place. I'd let people roll to smooth things over with the old cult (modified by the relationship table and the usual factors) to see what happens to that old slot in the soul.

The number of possible initiations anyone can functionally support at any given time is nebulous but I think it caps out at six or seven. The 10% rule also applies to your ability to juggle your cults. Each demands at least that sliver of your mind in order to remain active. Otherwise, it evaporates and your initiator might be bummed out.

Communities under stress will generate cross initiations more often for various reasons. One thing that's interesting is that in a Hero Wars environment someone is probably weaponizing these mechanics right now . . . "just in case" or for some specific objective. Could be Carmanians, Westerners, Aeolians, Etyries, Argrath, anybody.
 

[Eff]

IMG... well, I'm a snob about paleopaganism. So I'm not as wedded to the lay-initiate-rune level hierarchy as the primary way people experience the divine/access theurgic magic, because the mystery cult initiation was only a subset of religious practice in antiquity. I don't have a firm, strict set of rules for how access to theurgy is mediated for, eg, cultural models where different gods are invoked at different times, but I know that, eg, the Ten Servants and Sons of Lodril don't have initiates or Rune Priests (they have priests/shop stewards/clerks of the chapel, of course) and still provide appropriate magic directly to people. 

And this is in turn separate from the personal relationship with a god that is implied in the mystery cult model (eg the title character of the The Golden Ass and his conversations with Isis), which also can happen without the formal lay-initiate-rune level progression. The three things- the progression, the magic, and the personal relationship- overlap fairly strongly for prominent cults that serve as the base of social formation (Orlanth&Ernalda, Yelm, Dendara, Lodril, Oria, Aldrya, Triolina, Kyger Litor, etc.) but once you get outside of the defined "adulthood" cult things become less clear and firm. Some of this may be representable in RQ terms with heroquest gifts or rune spell matrices or similar.  

[JRE]

Although I agree the actual picture will be much more complex, I am not sure paganism in the RW is a good model for Glorantha due to the existence of a transactional model due to the actual existence of magical powers, and magical powers linked to your own interaction with the particular deity, or a spirit tradition. 

That will depend on the mechanism of the actual magic acquisition. For Spirit Magic it is presented apparently as an exchange of services / reputation with the temple instructor, and I assume with the knowledge that other teaching options exist, whether a different temple, a semi independent God-Talker, or a spirit talker in a hut in the hills. It is presented more as an equivalent to the teaching of cult skills than any mythical or personal development.

Rune magic is presented as linked to deep myth indoctrination and exposure, so it will require a significant level of commitment. I am not particularly happy with the change to make everyone initiates in RQ:G, compared to the previous situation where initiates were an exception, not the rule, though still quite typical for player characters. I am not sure what is the actual picture outside the player character bubble.

Having most of the population with renewable Rune magic is a significant change in the magical ecology and availability, and one that after some reflection, I do not really like. There are several options. Maybe the PCs are exceptional, and most initiates do not have access to Rune magic. Maybe most people were initiated (or lived a significant magical or mythical experience) to highlight reaching adulthood, but most of them lapse and become what we used to call lay members, showing respect and requesting the intervention of the whole pantheon depending on the circumstances, though in times of need or crisis these lapsed initiates can quickly be reactivated, and they may even recover those magics they touched but were forgotten under the pressure of subsistence work, family and social activities. 

The comments in other threads and in this thread give me the impression that the designers' idea is that in theist cultures almost all adults are active initiates, which automatically dispel any special character or secrecy in the status of initiate, as it becomes synonimous with adulthood. That creates the cult as occupation structure, so depending on your livelihood your initiation is foreordained. As I said I do not like this structure for the whole of society, but if this is the new official order, then I see why many people see multiple initiation more easily, as the baseline is having one initiation, and a sizeable amount of people will find a personal or social benefit from investing in a separate cult. 

[FlamingCatOfDeath]

4 hours ago, JRE said:

Rune magic is presented as linked to deep myth indoctrination and exposure, so it will require a significant level of commitment. I am not particularly happy with the change to make everyone initiates in RQ:G, compared to the previous situation where initiates were an exception, not the rule, though still quite typical for player characters. I am not sure what is the actual picture outside the player character bubble.

The comments in other threads and in this thread give me the impression that the designers' idea is that in theist cultures almost all adults are active initiates, which automatically dispel any special character or secrecy in the status of initiate, as it becomes synonimous with adulthood. That creates the cult as occupation structure, so depending on your livelihood your initiation is foreordained. As I said I do not like this structure for the whole of society, but if this is the new official order, then I see why many people see multiple initiation more easily, as the baseline is having one initiation, and a sizeable amount of people will find a personal or social benefit from investing in a separate cult. 

My understanding is that the rulebook talking about most people being initiated into a cult is really sloppy wording where the designers where treating being “initiated” as a different thing from being an “initiate” where their use of the former was in relation to lay membership. I could totally be wrong. Either way it will almost certainly be made clear in GaGoG. (or is it just GoG?) 

[JRE]

As an extra, though I mentioned it earlier, IMG there is a fear of illumination and illuminates in many cultures (while many in leadership positions are illuminates), and weird cult combinations will always bring the attention of temple hierarchies and possibly harassing or attacks by religious zealots. Kids are still frightened by stories of the evil Lokamaydon or the traitor Arkat, as well as the soulless sorcerers from the west or the forked tongue mystics that spoke too much with the Dragonewts. I think all of them are bundled together as an example of what to avoid, so anybody mixing pantheons will risk being stoned and thunderbolted. 

[Shiningbrow]

My 2 bolgs worth....

Firstly, I think multi-culting is normal, as few deities exist on their own, but in a full pantheon, and the cultures will be worshipping (to greater and lesser degrees) all members of that pantheon (or propitiating as required). And, so, I think many will be Initiates in a number of those deity's specific cults - or at least have a bit of cult lore from them (which, RAW, isn't possible unless you've initiated). Unless we accept that there's a bit of a mechanical problem - how do we represent one's knowledge of the pantheon and the deeds of the deities within it? There is no single Lore skill for that (obviously, that can either be simply added, or perhaps subsumed under knowledge of Culture - but I don't like that idea). I'd probably introduce a generic (Pantheon) Lore (05/30), because - let's face it - Gloranthans will have some knowledge of other cults and pantheons, as well as their own.

So, for most Sartarites, they will be Orlanthi - and have Initiated into Orlanth (with Barntar or Voriof - now apparently going to be sub-Cults of Orlanth), with many also in Ernalda. Crafters will probably be initiates of Orlanth, as well as their appropriate crafting deity.

 

Secondly, I am thinking that perhaps there should be another level of Initiate ... either between Lay Member and Initiate, or between Initiate and God-Talker (I think the former makes more sense, especially as some cults don't have G-Ts). This is the level where Cult Lore is taught - but only to a certain level (perhaps as low as 25%). Access to Rune Magic is severely limited, and possibly only a single defined special Rune Spell is available... Limited access to even Common Rune Spells, and only 1 Rune Point can be sacrificed for - which can't be renewed except at a High Holy day. This is purely to represent the vast number of people in the world who actually belong to a cult, but don't go far with it. They know some secrets, but only the most basic ones to allow them to partake in the Holy day festivities.

This allows for Lay Membership to actually represent those who are new-comers and newly engaged with the cult, who know basically nothing, with older (Lower Initiates) to be able to talk to them of their deities without actually going to far into it. It also allows for the vast population to be actual Initiates in the cults, as one would normally expect - but without giving them a lot of "power".

Some might argue against the idea of having yet another level, but seriously... this integration is very minor, and yet can have dramatic effects.

 

 

Another point on the topic in general - there are a few published scenarios where the PCs can (or are expected to) either Initiate or even become priests of cults they've only just met.. and without that, the scenario sort of becomes more difficult. Thus, multi-culting is not only normal, but expected.

[French Desperate WindChild]

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Firstly, I think multi-culting is normal, as few deities exist on their own, but in a full pantheon, and the cultures will be worshipping (to greater and lesser degrees) all members of that pantheon (or propitiating as required).

yes all the issue is the definition of multi-culting. Of course (well I mean...) a Sartarite, a Lunar, an Esrolian, a Praxian, a Tarshite, a Grazer ... worships a lot of gods. So in this way, every one is "multi culting" (except some  "weirdos" outside the setting and few inside dragon pass)

Now you may define multi-culting as "knowing the cults lore"

I consider Lay member status as you have acces as the cult lore, but not all the secret, and of course, not the "spells". You show your devotion, maybe you want to be accepted to gain more knowledge, maybe you are lay member only because you have a devotion for this god.

 

or multi-culting as "knowing the secret cults lore"

or multi-culting as "knowing the cults spells"

I consider Initiate status as you have access to both cult spell and secret cult lore.To learn secret cult lore you have to study AND experiment ( initiation quest, worshiping 'quest', 'hero quest'). I think this point, experimentation, is very important. You are accepted by the gods as one of them or one of their follower. That means a strong connection, that means difficulties. These difficulties, for me, are designed by the character's runes scores.

So from this perspective I think the rules design that there are few multi cultists (aka multi-initiates). Of course pc are exceptional heroes, so one day or another they would have opportunities to join different cults secrets and connexions.

 

then I share with you another issue : the knowledge of another cult of the pantheon

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Unless we accept that there's a bit of a mechanical problem - how do we represent one's knowledge of the pantheon and the deeds of the deities within it? There is no single Lore skill for that (obviously, that can either be simply added, or perhaps subsumed under knowledge of Culture - but I don't like that idea). I'd probably introduce a generic (Pantheon) Lore (05/30), because - let's face it - Gloranthans will have some knowledge of other cults and pantheons, as well as their own.

It is an option.

For me there are two ways, without adding any skill

a) you consider (you don't like it, it seems 😛 ) the locale culture score

b) you consider that your own cult lore can answer some questions about another god of your pantheon because there are relationship between the gods, they are relationship between the myths, between the experience

 

In both case I would as a gm

1) give a penalty depending of how secret is the answer  ( You are issaries worshipper, you want to know something about Odayla : -60% to your Iassries cult lore for example, depends on the secret)

2) reduce the penalty if your cult is "associated" with the other one (You are issaries worshipper, you want to know something about Orlanth: -60+20 = -40% )

3) give a bonus if the character is lay member of the other cult (You are issaries worshipper and Orlanth lay member, you want to know something about Orlanth, -60 + 20 + 20 = -20%)

then you don't have access to Orlanth or Odayla cult lore skill, but, you may have access to some "secret" or at least specific knowledge

 

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Secondly, I am thinking that perhaps there should be another level of Initiate ...

I think so and I don't think so. This level could be played with the rules : Once initiated, you have access to one cult spell (as you sacrifice 1POW) and to the basic secret cult lore... It is up to you to learn more, to sacrifice more, etcc..

If you don't invest a lot (1RP, 1 rune spell, 5% cult lore), you are between the lay member (0 RP, 0 cult lore maximl) status  and the initiate level (3RP, 3 rune spells, 20% cult lore minimum ).

But yes the space which is not cover is when you learn the first cult secret to become initiate. I gmize it as the time you spend to prepare your initiation

 

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

My 2 bolgs worth....

nah, "2 wheels" is more appropriate

 

 

[David Scott]

I'd like to see some examples of dual cult membership (relationship, tithes and time) as this is all very theoretical.

For example Sora Goodseller. Priestess of Issaries, Initiate of Yelmalio.

Cult Compatability: Issaries =>Yelmalio: Friendly, Yelmalio =>Issaries: Neutral

Tithes & Time: Issaries: 50% income. 10% time, Yelmalio: 10% income. 10% time

-----

Bert Buckweed. Orlanth Godtalker, initiate of Yinkin

Cult Compatability: Orlanth =>Yinkin: Associate, Yinkin =>Orlanth: Associate

Tithes & Time: Orlanth: 50% income. 10% time, Yinkin: 10% income. 10% time

-----

Jongreen the Red. Lhankor Mhy priest, Seven Mothers initiate

Cult Compatability: Lhankor Mhy =>Seven Mothers: Neutral, Seven Mothers =>Lhankor Mhy: Neutral

Tithes & Time: Lhankor Mhy: 90% income. 90% time, Seven Mothers: 10% income. 10% time

 

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

I'd like to see some examples of dual cult membership (relationship, tithes and time) as this is all very theoretical.

For example Sora Goodseller. Priestess of Issaries, Initiate of Yelmalio.

Cult Compatability: Issaries =>Yelmalio: Friendly, Yelmalio =>Issaries: Neutral

Tithes & Time: Issaries: 50% income. 10% time, Yelmalio: 10% income. 10% time

-----

Bert Buckweed. Orlanth Godtalker, initiate of Yinkin

Cult Compatability: Orlanth =>Yinkin: Associate, Yinkin =>Orlanth: Associate

Tithes & Time: Orlanth: 50% income. 10% time, Yinkin: 10% income. 10% time

-----

Jongreen the Red. Lhankor Mhy priest, Seven Mothers initiate

Cult Compatability: Lhankor Mhy =>Seven Mothers: Neutral, Seven Mothers =>Lhankor Mhy: Neutral

Tithes & Time: Lhankor Mhy: 90% income. 90% time, Seven Mothers: 10% income. 10% time

 

Don't the rules say that the secondary cult receives its percentage from what is left after the first cult has taken its share?

Thus Sora: 50% income and 10% time Issaries, 5% (0.5*10%) income and 9% (0.9*1%) time Yelmalio (or possibly the other way around, depending on which affiliation takes precedence), with complete fulfillment a voluntary show of dedication?

Otherwise Londra of Londros, Sword of Humakt and Associate Priest (god talker) of Orlanth at Old Wind Temple becomes a bit difficult to handle. Humakt: 90% time, 90% income, Orlanth: 5% time, 5% income, or, if she has taken an official role at the temple, Orlanth: 50% time, 50% income, Humakt 45% time, 45% income. In either case she has 5% discretionary time and income she may allocate to either cult or use in a different way.

[David Scott]

29 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Don't the rules say that the secondary cult receives its percentage from what is left after the first cult has taken its share?

It does not say that.

Quote

 

They must also tithe to each temple,

RQG page 275

 

29 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Otherwise Londra of Londros, Sword of Humakt and Associate Priest (god talker) of Orlanth at Old Wind Temple becomes a bit difficult to handle. Humakt: 90% time, 90% income, Orlanth: 5% time, 5% income, or, if she has taken an official role at the temple, Orlanth: 50% time, 50% income, Humakt 45% time, 45% income. In either case she has 5% discretionary time and income she may allocate to either cult or use in a different way.

Yes. No one said it was easy.

[Shiningbrow]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

Don't the rules say that the secondary cult receives its percentage from what is left after the first cult has taken its share?

There's a suggestion of this only under God-Talkers - "A God-talker who is also a Rune Priest of another cult must give 9/10 of their income to their primary cult, and then 1/2 of whatever is left to their secondary cult." p.278

Does principle that extend to Initiate level? YGMV

[Baron Wulfraed]

9 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Secondly, I am thinking that perhaps there should be another level of Initiate ... either between Lay Member and Initiate, or between Initiate and God-Talker (I think the

"Novitiate"? Though that fits as a synonym for "apprentice" which leads close to classical guild rankings: apprentice, journeyman ("initiate"?), master (rune level).... Leaving lay members as customers 😱

[Shiningbrow]

1 hour ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

"Novitiate"? Though that fits as a synonym for "apprentice" which leads close to classical guild rankings: apprentice, journeyman ("initiate"?), master (rune level).... Leaving lay members as customers 😱

Being a Novice is a very religious (Christian) term anyway, which seems to suit the idea, and probably at the point I'm thinking - the early part of the training. (although, in our RL terms, it would be full-time occupation)

[Joerg]

Trainee

Candidate

or, for learning Cult Lore: Lay Member in good standing.

[Shiningbrow]

8 hours ago, Joerg said:

or, for learning Cult Lore: Lay Member in good standing.

Unfortunately, RAW says otherwise... (part of the reason I thought of the above changes). "An adventurer must be at least an initiate of a cult to learn the secret lore of that cult." - Under Cult Lore.

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Unfortunately, RAW says otherwise... (part of the reason I thought of the above changes). "An adventurer must be at least an initiate of a cult to learn the secret lore of that cult." - Under Cult Lore.

The secret lore of the cult is only part of the skill Cult Lore, as far as I am concerned.

Also, a lot of rote knowledge becomes loaded with secret by the initiatory experience.