What's going on with RQG & Chaosium

[Jose]

Hello, I would like to know what's going on with RQG and Chaosium? Six months without even a supplement is a lot of time for a RPG publisher and if you compare with CoC  well, it seems RQG is absolutely secundary for Chaosium. I mean, I understand business is business after all, but it is a pity that a setting so cool as Glorantha does not have more products. JC is nice but is not Chaosium.

Best regards. 

[soltakss]

4 minutes ago, Jose said:

Six months without even a supplement is a lot of time for a RPG publisher and if you compare with CoC  well, it seems RQG is absolutely secundary for Chaosium.

That has been the case for a long time. CoC pays the bills, basically.

[AndreJarosch]

1 hour ago, Jose said:

Hello, I would like to know what's going on with RQG and Chaosium? Six months without even a supplement is a lot of time for a RPG publisher and if you compare with CoC  well, it seems RQG is absolutely secundary for Chaosium. I mean, I understand business is business after all, but it is a pity that a setting so cool as Glorantha does not have more products. JC is nice but is not Chaosium.

Best regards. 

The print version of "Weapons & Equipment" should be out soon. 
The PDF version of "Gods of Glorantha" (which will ba a massive pack with about 800 pages) will be out soon. 

[Jose]

9 hours ago, soltakss said:

That has been the case for a long time. CoC pays the bills, basically.

RQG has to bring new gamers to the fold if it has to survive beyond "Old timers" 

[g33k]

On 6/12/2022 at 1:50 AM, soltakss said:

That has been the case for a long time. CoC pays the bills, basically.

I believe this is less true than it used to be.

Day-1 of the RQG release was the single best day of sales in all of Chaosium's history.

 

On 6/12/2022 at 1:44 AM, Jose said:

Hello, I would like to know what's going on with RQG and Chaosium? Six months without even a supplement is a lot of time for a RPG publisher and if you compare with CoC  well, it seems RQG is absolutely secundary for Chaosium.

A few things to realize:

1.  Chaosium is now helmed by people who were ultra-fanatic fans of RQ and Glorantha; they LOVE it!

2.  Before they joined Chaosium, they were  Moon Design(*), and they produced (under license from Chaosium) the 4-volume "Glorantha Classics" set (1/ Pavis&Big Rubble, 2/ Cult Compendium, 3/ Griffin Mountain, 4/ Borderlands & Beyond), AND the stunning 2-volume magnum opus, Guide to Glorantha.

3.  Rick Meints, as a fan, went by the nickname "Mr. Suitcase" because he'd hit many conventions with a suitcase full of Glorantha/RQ rarities from his personal collection (edit:  corrected by those who know better!).  As a fan, he wrote the definitive "Meints Index to Glorantha."

4.  Consequently, they want to "do it right..." not just slam it out the door to hit pre-set targets/deadlines.  Their official policy is, "it'll be done when it's done."

5.  CoC is infintely easier to produce than RQG, particularly when it comes to art.

Virtually any competent artist knows how to draw 1920's era people, places, things (and for the Cthulhu mythos (which is also well-known) they also already know how to draw Things).

Art for Glorantha is incredibly much more difficult.  It's a mix of authentic art from Antiquity with very-specific Cult Runes, sacred colors, animals, etc.  No artist in the world knows how to draw or paint this stuff, unless they've worked deeply with it already; everyone else needs extensive art-direction and coaching from Jeff, or someone like Jeff.  And if an artist suffers any sort of stumbling-block or crisis (I know at least one was on their back for a month with covid... right in the middle of major projects!  and even after that month recovery was s-l-o-o-o-o-w... and productivity way-low for a while (I hope they are better now, both for their own sake & because I crave more o' dat sweet Gloranthan eye-candy!)).  See above, #4, "doing it right."

As a consequence of all of this, CoC content tends to churn out at a very regular pace.  Mike Mason has been doing his job for quite a while, and it's a smooth-running machine.

Gloranthan product... well, that's before the machine-age.  Every one is hand-crafted.

 

(*) technically, I believe the folks helming the Chaosium still ARE "Moon Design," with either a d/b/a (or ownership of) the Chaosium.
 

Edited July 20, 2022 by g33k

[Jason Farrell]

22 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

The PDF version of "Gods of Glorantha" (which will ba a massive pack with about 800 pages) will be out soon. 

Sadly, this does not seem to be the case unless the decision to align pdf and print releases has been reversed.

[davey68uk]

I understand the 'doing it right' strategy and that's actually ok with me. I suppose I'm just greedy but I can't wait to get my hands on the physical books as soon as they are released. I think W&E pdf came out November 2021 so it has been a long wait for the physical copy. Even assuming Gods of Glorantha pdf is release in the next few months I imagine it will be well into 2023 before the books are in our hands. With so many other exciting books/supplements planned I guess it's just a case of good things come to those that wait! 🙂

[Jose]

21 hours ago, Jason Farrell said:

Sadly, this does not seem to be the case unless the decision to align pdf and print releases has been reversed.

Yes, and the release of the Sartar set is more important from player perspective, player base and money-making than the Gods books which is important of course but has its focus on old timers and context. You tell the people hey you start in 1625-1626 and then wait 3 years until we release a book to explain what happened in the setting 1627. Just my opinion of course.

[Jason Farrell]

I can't really agree with that.  Cults are central to Runequest and it's kind of amazing that there has been no real cults book so far for this edition.  It's as important as having a bestiary or a magic book, in my opinion.  I appreciate that once it's released it'll be such a comprehensive work, but I can't help but feel like it should have been a higher priority, and I definitely don't agree with the decision to delay the pdf release until the print version.

[g33k]

23 hours ago, Jason Farrell said:

I can't really agree with that.  Cults are central to Runequest and it's kind of amazing that there has been no real cults book so far for this edition.  It's as important as having a bestiary or a magic book, in my opinion.  I appreciate that once it's released it'll be such a comprehensive work, but I can't help but feel like it should have been a higher priority, and I definitely don't agree with the decision to delay the pdf release until the print version.

RE the magic-book (RBoM) -- they already had that!  AIUI, it was Chaosium's internal "spell bible" that they were using to get all the same RQG'ified versions of spells into the new products, regardless of whether the author was a RQ2 grognard, a RQ3 grognard, or was working off their memories of well-beloved but extensively-HouseRuled campaigns.  Then the lightbulb went off -- "Hey!  we have a whole ms. in-hand, ready for edit/layout/art!"  Dunno who first proposed the notion but I owe them a beer, or something!  Probably not my firstborn.

Probably.

As far as the PDF releasing before the print -- AFAIK, that's still the policy.  There was a 1-time exception for the Starter Set, because it was an almost-pointless thing to release in PDF-only version.

[Soccercalle]

Both the Sartar Book and the Cults Book are essential. So is official rules for heroquesting.

I decided to start my campaign in 1619 just because I can't trust Chaosium to publish information about the setting that makes it possible to play an epic and/or political campaign after 1626. I remember playing in the 90s when the campaign was stuck in 1621. IF Chaosium wanted to end the system with early pdf-releases they should have waited until AFTER the global shipping and paper crisis is over. I know that Chaosium think that art is important but most of my players never see the art. We play online and I describe the settings and I may sometime share something from the books.

The Cult Book was so close to being finished in 2018 that it was actually included as something that you could already by in the GM Screen Pack.The core rule book is also mentioning the upcoming GM Book as if it was something already published.

I love all the texts that Jeff publishes in Facebook and appreciates that. But Chaosium must not be to obsessed with publishing a "perfect" tome every 3-5 years. They need to publish books that are just "very good" 1-2 times a year. I read that they put a lot of emphasis in maps but I think that I already have 10-12 different maps of Sartar and Prax that is good enough. That you really need as a GM is the distance and some information about encounters.

It is not good that the only really "new" stuff for old-timers published since the GMs screen pack is the two scenario books and the Jonstown description + Jonstown scenarios in the Starter Set. That, btw, is of excellent quality. 

The Sartar Book and the Cults Book are also essential for community writing. I get that Chaosium will never be able to publish a lot of scenarios. But they need to publish books with all the information needed for other people to write scenarios set in 1627, 1628, 1629 and so on. 

[Soccercalle]

5 minutes ago, g33k said:

As far as the PDF releasing before the print -- AFAIK, that's still the policy.  There was a 1-time exception for the Starter Set, because it was an almost-pointless thing to release in PDF-only version.

Nope, as I have understood @Jeffthe system has changed. Chaosium even had a video early this year where the pdf was "promised" to be finished in "late first quarter". That can of course be delayed but not for more than 1-2 months. I think that is a bad decision until the global shipping crisis is over and the delay between pdf:s and hard copies are down to a couple of months. 

[g33k]

3 minutes ago, Soccercalle said:

Nope, as I have understood @Jeffthe system has changed. Chaosium even had a video early this year where the pdf was "promised" to be finished in "late first quarter". That can of course be delayed but not for more than 1-2 months. I think that is a bad decision until the global shipping crisis is over and the delay between pdf:s and hard copies are down to a couple of months. 

All I really need is the data.  I'll get the hardcopies whenever available, but I want the text ASAP; and if the PDF can be had 8 months befor the print, I'm 8 months happier!

[Soccercalle]

9 minutes ago, g33k said:

All I really need is the data.  I'll get the hardcopies whenever available, but I want the text ASAP; and if the PDF can be had 8 months befor the print, I'm 8 months happier!

+1 

I want the long write-up of the cults with all the sub-cults and spells. And I want it ASAP. I will gladly pay for art and hard copies when they become available.

[Starcarr]

I reckon the cults book should have been the number one priority. RQG feels like only half a game to me atm. The cults are essential to play it properly. I suspect that Chaosium do see it as the priority but other projects are just coming to completion more quickly. I have no doubt it’s going to be big and beautiful when it’s done. 

[Nick Brooke]

On 6/12/2022 at 9:38 PM, g33k said:

3.  Rick Meints, as a fan, went by the nickname "Mr. Suitcase" because he'd hit many conventions with a suitcase full of Glorantha/RQ rarities from his personal collection.

This is not true.

[RandomNumber]

15 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

Both the Sartar Book and the Cults Book are essential. So is official rules for heroquesting.

I'm not that convinced that the HQ rules are essential - it's a niche product for a niche game. Whilst I'm sure it is spiritually important I would be surprised if it is expected to sell more than a scenario book like Smoking Ruins or Pegasus Plateau. All credit to Chasoium that they are holding true to what they consider important than what will sell the most.

They do seem unnecessarily obscure with what's in the works. I get that there's no upside in promising dates that can't be hit (the stated first quarter 2022 release of Cults pdf's being a miss) but some sort of indication of what is in the pipeline and the stage it is at (a la Mongoose https://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pages/releaseschedule) wouldn't go amiss even if dates aren't shared. I'm pretty sure I listened to a 2019 podcast interview with Robin Laws talking about his Pavis rewrite...

So... I'm pretty sympathetic to the Chaosium crew - they will give us great products when they are ready. They have put their heads on the block and I'm in the cheap seats.  The excellent JC products really take the sting out of the tail - there is a steady stream of RQG content, much of it very good indeed. That is a huge difference from 1982 - the game feels well supported, even if it is a community effort.

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by RandomNumber
typo

[Godlearner]

11 minutes ago, RandomNumber said:

I'm not that convinced that the HQ rules are essential - it's a niche product for a niche game. Whilst I'm sure it is spiritually important I would be surprised if it is expected to sell more than a scenario book like Smoking Ruins or Pegasus Plateau.

Why not compare these to Secrets of HeroQuesting (Secrets of HeroQuesting - Chaosium | Jonstown Compendium | DriveThruRPG.com) which has also been extrimely popular. 

[Jeff]

36 minutes ago, RandomNumber said:

I'm not that convinced that the HQ rules are essential - it's a niche product for a niche game. Whilst I'm sure it is spiritually important I would be surprised if it is expected to sell more than a scenario book like Smoking Ruins or Pegasus Plateau. All credit to Chasoium that they are holding true to what they consider important than what will sell the most.

They do seem unnecessarily obscure with what's in the works. I get that there's no upside in promising dates that can't be hit (the stated first quarter 2022 release of Cults pdf's being a miss) but some sort of indication of what is in the pipeline and the stage it is at (a la Mongoose https://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pages/releaseschedule) wouldn't go amiss even if dates aren't shared. I'm pretty sure I listened to a 2019 podcast interview with Robin Laws talking about his Pavis rewrite...

So... I'm pretty sympathetic to the Chaosium crew - they will give us great products when they are ready. They have put their heads on the block and I'm in the cheap seats.  The excellent JC products really take the sting out of the tale - there is a steady stream of RQG content, much of it very good indeed. That is a huge difference from 1982 - the game feels well supported, even if it is a community effort.

 

I expect the final heroquesting materials will sell far more copies than a scenario book. 

[Nick Brooke]

37 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

Why not compare these to Secrets of HeroQuesting which has also been extrimely popular. 

Community content "success" vs. professionally published success are totally different creatures: you're not comparing like with like. Seriously, there is no world in which Chaosium would consider a product achieving 500 sales "extremely popular." There are lots of reasons for this -- community content books aren't seen in FLGSs, aren't carried by distributors, and some customers have irrational prejudices against "amateur" work -- but it can't be ignored. What community content has going for it is variety, enthusiasm and productivity.

Also, scenario books always sell best to gamemasters (i.e. just one of the members of most gaming groups), while rulebooks, settings and splatbooks (inc. player options like cults and heroquests) can be bought by everyone at the table, because players like their shiny power-ups, yes indeed! So I won't be at all surprised when a core rulebook containing heroquest rules outsells a collection of scenarios: it appeals to more potential customers.

[g33k]

3 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

This is not true.

???
Can you expand, please?
I never co-conventioned with him, but this is something I have read repeatedly.

[Nick Brooke]

A strange Frenchman once called him "Mr Suitcase" in a ranty missive on the intertubes, and the name amused us so it stuck. I can't be arsed to dig out the moment the label was applied to Rick, but if you dig around this post in the timeline you'll probably find it.

https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/GloranthaDigest/vol05/4568.html

Edited June 15, 2022 by Nick Brooke

[Joerg]

2 minutes ago, g33k said:

???
Can you expand, please?
I never co-conventioned with him, but this is something I have read repeatedly.

I've been to many conventions with Rick, and I may have driven him (and a couple more people) up or down the way to/from Castle Stahleck. At the very least, I spent many a Pentecost Monday noon between packed bags on the courtyard, saying farewell to people. I don't remember any big pieces of luggage.

(Unlike e.g. my last visit to the Kraken where I had an oversized bag to carry the bare necessities for 5+ players Gods War...)

The epithet was given in an online community - https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/GloranthaDigest/vol05/4568.html

[Soccercalle]

Even if I can sound critical to Chaosiums strategy when it comes to releasing new content am I certain that they do what they think is best for the line and ultimately the community of players and GMs. @Jeffis very generous with information on FB and answers most of our questions. But it is easy to get frustrated when you have to wait years for essential products. 

[Starcarr]

6 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

A strange Frenchman once called him "Mr Suitcase" in a ranty missive on the intertubes, and the name amused us so it stuck. I can't be arsed to dig out the moment the label was applied to Rick, but if you dig around this post in the timeline you'll probably find it.

https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/GloranthaDigest/vol05/4568.html

 Monsieur Valise it is then.