What's going on with RQG & Chaosium

[RandomNumber]

8 hours ago, Jeff said:

I expect the final heroquesting materials will sell far more copies than a scenario book. 

I very much hope you’re right

[RandomNumber]

9 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Why not compare these to Secrets of HeroQuesting (Secrets of HeroQuesting - Chaosium | Jonstown Compendium | DriveThruRPG.com) which has also been extrimely popular. 

My group isn’t that much interested in Heroquesting, so I’ll freely concede my own biases are at play in assessing how popular it might be. Even so, the target market seems to be people who are interested in RQG and also in Heroquesting. I’ll buy it because I’ve been a die-hard Chaosium fan for over 40 years and I want to support the company in its endeavours.

[g33k]

9 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

A strange Frenchman once called him "Mr Suitcase" in a ranty missive on the intertubes...

https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/GloranthaDigest/vol05/4568.html

 

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

...

The epithet was given in an online community - https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/GloranthaDigest/vol05/4568.html

 

Thank you, gentlemen!

 

[Rick Meints]

On 6/12/2022 at 4:38 PM, g33k said:

3.  Rick Meints, as a fan, went by the nickname "Mr. Suitcase" because he'd hit many conventions with a suitcase full of Glorantha/RQ rarities from his personal collection.  As a fan, he wrote the definitive "Meints Index to Glorantha."

In 1998 a frustrated fan from France accused me of not sharing gloranthan info with younger fans. He said i was like one of those Magic the Gathering Players who went around to events with a suitcase full of rare and powerful cards with the express purpose of beating other players. He thought I was some really old dude who just hoarded info and lorded it over others who desperately couldn't get a hold of that info. A bunch of my friends and I found the term "Mr. Suitcase" rather funny and I embraced it. Because the original "accuser" was French we also translated it to Monsieur Valise. While I did take a comic book box full of RQ stuff to RQ Con 1 in Baltimore in 1994, I have never travelled around with my collection, especially in suitcases. If I did travel with it that way I would need a set of luggage like in Joe Versus the Volcano...

I haven't spoken to or heard from that French fan for over two decades now, but I take some comfort in the thought that publishing the Gloranthan Classics went a long way towards filling some of that gap he was venting about.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Rick Meints

[PhilHibbs]

I learned something today. I also thought it was a reference to bringing boxes of stuff to early - probably US - conventions. I guess someone assumed that, said it, others repeated it, and the myth outpaced the reality for a while.

[AndreJarosch]

17 hours ago, RandomNumber said:

My group isn’t that much interested in Heroquesting, so I’ll freely concede my own biases are at play in assessing how popular it might be. Even so, the target market seems to be people who are interested in RQG and also in Heroquesting. I’ll buy it because I’ve been a die-hard Chaosium fan for over 40 years and I want to support the company in its endeavours.

IMHO the Heroquesting book is more important to get published soon than another adventure collection. 
If the HeroQuesting book is available future adventure collections can include heroquests (which will be more and more common as the Hero Wars continue to unfold), which will be a big plus for an adventure book. 

The Heroquest book will make it possible to publish even more important adventures. 
And Adventure books that include heroquest will sell more Heroquest books. 
Win-win.

Edited June 16, 2022 by AndreJarosch

[Rick Meints]

The first "Chaosium related" convention I attended was RQ Con 1 in Baltimore back in January of 1994. That was the only convention I took some of my collection to, in the aforementioned comic book box. It was most of the RQ2 boxed sets and some of the main RQ supplements, all in clear comic book sleeves. That was the con where I met Greg Stafford who was nice enough to briefly chat with me about each item as he signed them. I was very fortunate to be able to attend all of the RQ/Glorantha cons held from 1995-2003, other than missing the second RQ Con Down Under. When I moved to the UK in 1995 I started attending European conventions as well. I managed to make it to Convulsion in Leicester in 1996, 1998, 2000, and so on until about 2010, as well as going to the Tentacles Convention in Bacharach each year from 1995 until around 2010. I was one of the main auctioneers for the games auction held at all of these events, and often purchased items at them, especially at the earlier ones. After I picked up the nickname "Mr. Suitcase" in 1998 I started getting introduced with that title at the beginning of many of those auctions. 

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

On 6/12/2022 at 9:44 AM, Jose said:

 JC is nice but is not Chaosium.

Best regards. 

I never understand what people mean by that. Some of the people [many] are the same people that produced all the recent Chaosium products. 

Is it the name that impresses you? 

If it is then all of the JC stuff has 'licenced by Chaosium', if it's not who exactly is it, that so impresses? 

Cause I'm buggered if I know. 

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

On 6/14/2022 at 7:16 AM, Jason Farrell said:

 Cults are central to Runequest and it's kind of amazing that there has been no real cults book so far for this edition.  It's as important as having a bestiary or a magic book, in my opinion.  I appreciate that once it's released it'll be such a comprehensive work, but I can't help but feel like it should have been a higher priority. 

There have been cults available, I doubt the cults in Cog will be that different to the long form cults in CoP, CoT, the fairly easy to get cults in White Wolf,  the various bits in other RQ products and Zola Fel in Pavis and what have you. Oh, and let's not forget Ernalda in the RQ3 box. 

The short form cults in the rulebook aren't bad either and there is more info I think in various scenario books? 

So to say there is no cult info is a little disingenuous. 

 

I think that they have been working on Cog pretty much since the publication of RQ:G If not before so I'm not sure how it could have had higher priority? 

I don't know why they aren't doing the Pdf before the book, but to be honest I don't care. There is more than enough culty stuff out there already. And if you are playing in Sartar [yawn] then Orlanth does everything you need, cept wipe your arse for you and you never know, tip him the wink and he might do that as well, or at least get Elmal to do it. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Orlanthatemyhamster
Clarification and grammar

[French Desperate WindChild]

21 minutes ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

I never understand what people mean by that. Some of the people [many] are the same people that produced all the recent Chaosium products. 

Is it the name that impresses you? 

If it is then all of the JC stuff has 'licenced by Chaosium', if it's not who exactly is it, that so impresses? 

Cause I'm buggered if I know. 

I m like @Jose. I don't know if it is for the same reason but, for me, there is a big difference : JC production may not be aligned with the existing and next productions of chaosium. There are house rules, there are house settings, etc... This house stuff may be good, very good, excellent, but it may diverge from the "sacred books". There is no "validation".

When I buy some chaosium stuff, I expect it is aligned with all chaosium stuff. When I buy JC stuff, I hope to know what is aligned, what is not, and be able to decide when I diverge my own glorantha

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

21 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I m like @Jose. I don't know if it is for the same reason but, for me, there is a big difference : JC production may not be aligned with the existing and next productions of chaosium. There are house rules, there are house settings, etc... This house stuff may be good, very good, excellent, but it may diverge from the "sacred books". There is no "validation".

When I buy some chaosium stuff, I expect it is aligned with all chaosium stuff. When I buy JC stuff, I hope to know what is aligned, what is not, and be able to decide when I diverge my own glorantha

Hell will freeze over before almost all of the stuff produced by the JC gets an official yay or nay by Chaosium doing competition. In fact I should imagine unless they are central places, characters, what have you, Chaosium will avoid contradicting the JC stuff, cause unless it is very bad it will have done Chaosium's work for it. 

In the end, I think its a pretty poor policy you are sticking to, and if you had it in the past you would have lost out on all the Reaching Moon stuff and all the Drastic stuff too. But your loss. 🙂

Edited June 16, 2022 by Orlanthatemyhamster

[RandomNumber]

6 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

IMHO the Heroquesting book is more important to get published soon than another adventure collection. 
If the HeroQuesting book is available future adventure collections can include heroquests (which will be more and more common as the Hero Wars continue to unfold), which will be a big plus for an adventure book. 

The Heroquest book will make it possible to publish even more important adventures. 
And Adventure books that include heroquest will sell more Heroquest books. 
Win-win.

I think the observation that a scenario book might appeal only to GM's (or lonely RQG fans) is well made. I can't much see the sense of producing mixed scenario books that require the RQG rules and the HQ expansion unless you're confident that the HQ rules expansion has penetrated the player base sufficiently well that the set of RQG GM's who are not also HQ GMs is small. Otherwise such a book has material that is perhaps interesting but otherwise redundant to an RQG GM - it appeals only to the set of GMs of RQG who also are also GM's of HQ.  Plus, die-hard fans like you and me are going to buy it anyway.

It seems like a 'guns or butter' trade-off - work to broaden the player base, or work to deepen the product specialisation. No doubt in my mind the Starter Set was an excellent proposition and well executed. Perhaps it's the right time to pivot to a rules specialisation within RQG. Whether the level of interest in HQ is genuinely that high in the addressable market or whether it's Gloranthaphile self-talk, who knows. Hence my assertion that it's not essential (to the success of the RQG line). Is it important to the legacy of Greg Stafford and Glorantha - absolutely. I'll take all the RQG products from Chaosium I can get. In the meantime, the JC sustains me perfectly well.

[FlamingCatOfDeath]

10 minutes ago, RandomNumber said:

I think the observation that a scenario book might appeal only to GM's (or lonely RQG fans) is well made. I can't much see the sense of producing mixed scenario books that require the RQG rules and the HQ expansion unless you're confident that the HQ rules expansion has penetrated the player base sufficiently well that the set of RQG GM's who are not also HQ GMs is small. Otherwise such a book has material that is perhaps interesting but otherwise redundant to an RQG GM - it appeals only to the set of GMs of RQG who also are also GM's of HQ.  Plus, die-hard fans like you and me are going to buy it anyway.

It seems like a 'guns or butter' trade-off - work to broaden the player base, or work to deepen the product specialisation. No doubt in my mind the Starter Set was an excellent proposition and well executed. Perhaps it's the right time to pivot to a rules specialisation within RQG. Whether the level of interest in HQ is genuinely that high in the addressable market or whether it's Gloranthaphile self-talk, who knows. Hence my assertion that it's not essential (to the success of the RQG line). Is it important to the legacy of Greg Stafford and Glorantha - absolutely. I'll take all the RQG products from Chaosium I can get. In the meantime, the JC sustains me perfectly well.

Hero quest rules refers to the rules for Heroquesting within the Runequest rules. It doesn’t refer to the heroquest game

[Jason Farrell]

4 hours ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

 

So to say there is no cult info is a little disingenuous. 

 

 

What's disingenuous is to misquote me.  I wrote that there has been no cults book for this edition.  And there hasn't been.  You really think players and GM's should have to find information in White Wolf and supplements from 40 years ago?  And then adapt it to the current rules?   I don't agree.

The rest of your response is just disrespectful, for no reason I can readily see.  If the short form write-ups and Orlanth is plenty for you, that's nice.  It's not for me, and I don't think it is for a lot of other Runequest fans.

[Scorus]

On 6/14/2022 at 1:58 AM, Jose said:

Yes, and the release of the Sartar set is more important from player perspective, player base and money-making than the Gods books which is important of course but has its focus on old timers and context. You tell the people hey you start in 1625-1626 and then wait 3 years until we release a book to explain what happened in the setting 1627. Just my opinion of course.

I'm afraid I can't disagree more! The cults write-ups are going to blow the new peoples' minds and force them to make lots of changes in their campaigns, the sooner it is out the easier that is going to go.

[Scorus]

6 hours ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

Hell will freeze over before almost all of the stuff produced by the JC gets an official yay or nay by Chaosium doing competition. In fact I should imagine unless they are central places, characters, what have you, Chaosium will avoid contradicting the JC stuff, cause unless it is very bad it will have done Chaosium's work for it.

Richard has made it clear what his sources are for the official Chaosium stuff, and they don't include the JC! Some of the JC authors have advanced copies of stuff and are going to stick to the canon, but anything that disagrees with Richard's primary sources will be ignored.

[Jason Farrell]

On the JC vs official Chaosium publication debate, I personally judge each book by its own merits.  It's not a matter of whether JC stuff is canon or might be supplanted by future Chaosium products.  I don't care much about that.  

For me, the reason I want more Chaosium Runequest material is because they have the resources to produce the best, most comprehensive material.  There are some excellent books in the JC, but there are also some that are...less excellent.  And nobody out there is producing stuff on the level of Guide to Glorantha or the upcoming cults books. 

It's not an either/or proposition to me.  I own most of the JC stuff.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Jason Farrell

[Jason Farrell]

5 minutes ago, Scorus said:

Richard has made it clear what his sources are for the official Chaosium stuff, and they don't include the JC! Some of the JC authors have advanced copies of stuff and are going to stick to the canon, but anything that disagrees with Richard's primary sources will be ignored.

Generally speaking, that's the only way it can be.  Chaosium allows us to play around in their sandbox, but it's a long way from that to expecting them to incorporate everything people come up with.  I don't know if they would ever consider making particularly well researched work canon, but as a blanket policy it makes perfect sense to me not to.  It would be like Bethesda Game Studies worrying about what fans have modded for their game when they release a DLC for it.  It would never happen.

I'm a bit confused whenever someone complains that Chaosium "hasn't told us what happens in 1627" or whatever.  What happens is up to you!  There's already more background material on Glorantha and the events that take place in it than there are for the vast majority of RPG settings.

[Shiningbrow]

11 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

m like @Jose. I don't know if it is for the same reason but, for me, there is a big difference : JC production may not be aligned with the existing and next productions of chaosium. There are house rules, there are house settings, etc... This house stuff may be good, very good, excellent, but it may diverge from the "sacred books". There is no "validation".

When I buy some chaosium stuff, I expect it is aligned with all chaosium stuff. When I buy JC stuff, I hope to know what is aligned, what is not, and be able to decide when I diverge my own glorantha

 

With respect to this, two of my most favouritest JC books fall very much into this gap - Book of Doom and Secrets of Heroquesting. I'd absolutely love to be in a game where I could show up with them, and know that they are automatically accepted by the GM as virtually canon - because they have Chaosium's seal of total and complete approval.

Instead, I know that most GMs are going to glance sideways and grimace. (The HQ stuff might get used, as the general ideas have been around for a while)

Obviously, YGMV, but having a spell from Book of Doom get rejected is vastly different to having a Chaosium publication spell rejected (even if the spells and skills in BoD make perfect sense, and logically would have appeared at some point in Glorantha's history).

(oddly, compare that to Arms & Armies of DP.... which is treated as virtually canon by Chaosium)

Edited June 17, 2022 by Shiningbrow

[Shiningbrow]

On 6/15/2022 at 2:22 PM, g33k said:

There was a 1-time exception for the Starter Set, because it was an almost-pointless thing to release in PDF-only version.

I disagree with this last statement. I'm sure sales for both are high, but I'd be interested to know if PDFs led to the purchase of the dead elf versions.

PDFs are cheaper, and easier to move about (and order and get delivered), and so for those who are curious about this 'new' gaming system, PDF makes perfect sense. Especially (as much as the publishers would hate this fact), there is so much pirated material around, and it's very common that players  first experience of a game is going to be via a pirated PDF. It's from that first exposure that a lot of new players will start spending the big bikkies on the hardcopies (or just stick to PDF). I would never recommend to someone to go out and spend a significant amount of money on a product they've never seen or heard of before - no mater how much I rave about it!

The free stuff that has been produced is an excellent way to introduce new players, and I'm recommending the free online soloquest to people - certainly as a re-play after having done the one I bought and GM (cos I'm a native English speaker, and I've been running it for 2nd language users... and, I know the world much better).

 

Will the (pirated) PDF readers then go on to buy the full boxed Starter Set? Or would they more likely go straight for the Core book and supplements?

 

(Obviously, just my opinion)

[Pentallion]

On 6/15/2022 at 3:02 PM, RandomNumber said:

I very much hope you’re right

it's going to sell through the roof.

[Pentallion]

16 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

In 1998 a frustrated fan from France accused me of not sharing gloranthan info with younger fans. He said i was like one of those Magic the Gathering Players who went around to events with a suitcase full of rare and powerful cards with the express purpose of beating other players. He thought I was some really old dude who just hoarded info and lorded it over others who desperately couldn't get a hold of that info. A bunch of my friends and I found the term "Mr. Suitcase" rather funny and I embraced it. Because the original "accuser" was French we also translated it to Monsieur Valise. While I did take a comic book box full of RQ stuff to RQ Con 1 in Baltimore in 1994, I have never travelled around with my collection, especially in suitcases. If I did travel with it that way I would need a set of luggage like in Joe Versus the Volcano...

I haven't spoken to or heard from that French fan for over two decades now, but I take some comfort in the thought that publishing the Gloranthan Classics went a long way towards filling some of that gap he was venting about.

I wondered about that, because I'm from the Seattle area and played MtG from the beginning. I knew the actual "Tim" (from the counterspell alpha art), and I'd met the original Mr. Suitcase. btw, I can attest to two supposed urban myths: Yes, he did tear up the Chaos Orb and yes, the little four year old girl who couldn't read sent teenagers home in tears after beating them at magic - with an all commons deck (she was and is my daughter).

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

With respect to this, two of my most favouritest JC books fall very much into this gap - Book of Doom and Secrets of Heroquesting. I'd absolutely love to be in a game where I could show up with them, and know that they are automatically accepted by the GM as virtually canon - because they have Chaosium's seal of total and complete approval.

Simon's work is great, I never said anything else. And I don't say "don't buy JC book"

What I say is JC cannot (for me) replace chaosium publication.

Sometimes Jc proposes some background, scenario, characters or even new spells. No issue, I pick or not depending on my taste.

Sometimes JC tries to fill some void (heroquest rules for example) and it is good, but it remains a potential risk of contradiction with further chaosium product.

 

That is the difference for me between JC and chaosium. JC may be contradicted by chaosium or other JC stuff.

 

[AndreJarosch]

8 hours ago, RandomNumber said:

I think the observation that a scenario book might appeal only to GM's (or lonely RQG fans) is well made. I can't much see the sense of producing mixed scenario books that require the RQG rules and the HQ expansion unless you're confident that the HQ rules expansion has penetrated the player base sufficiently well that the set of RQG GM's who are not also HQ GMs is small. Otherwise such a book has material that is perhaps interesting but otherwise redundant to an RQG GM - it appeals only to the set of GMs of RQG who also are also GM's of HQ.  Plus, die-hard fans like you and me are going to buy it anyway.

I wrote about the Heroquesting rules for RQG, which will be a chapter in the upcoming GM Book (and later on being expanded into its own supplement, as far as i have understood the current status). 
There is no gloranthan game called HeroQuest anymore. HeroQuest is the MB/Wizards of the Coast boardgame. The "other gloranthan RPG" is QuestWorlds. 
I don´t refer to neither of them. 

[Mugen]

17 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

In 1998 a frustrated fan from France accused me of not sharing gloranthan info with younger fans. 

In his defence, it was difficult to not be frustrated as a French Glorantha fan, as most of the available material was translations of RQ3 publications. Even if it included excellent stuff such as Sun County, most of the time it felt like authors only scratched the surface. We had to wait for Elder Sign to hear of Cristals !