From the Amber Coast to Thule ...

[rust]

Continental Europe has little use for such commodities in 1200, and the Hanseatic League is not yet the economic power that it will become in the Renaissance.

I thought so, too, and therefore did a little research, with a result that really surprised me. If

the sources are correct, the colony could even charge higher prices for some of the goods it

has to offer.

To quote Wikipedia:

Some medieval Europeans believed narwhal tusks to be the horns from the legendary unicorn.

As these horns were considered to have magic powers, such as the ability to cure poison and

melancholia, Vikings and other northern traders were able to sell them for many times their

weight in gold.

And an especially nice example for the use of walrus ivory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_chessmen

[ClawCarver]

And an especially nice example for the use of walrus ivory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_chessmen

There are currently 30 of the little fellas marshalled for display here in Edinburgh, and they'll be making their way over the Minch for a long-awaited homecoming visit to Lewis next year. Hurrah!

Take a close look here: http://www.nms.ac.uk/our_museums/national_museum/special_exhibitions/lewis_chessmen_unmasked/zoom_in_on_the_chessmen.aspx

[rust]

Take a close look here:

Thank you very much for the link.

The chess pieces are real beauties, and the website contains a lot of interesting informations.

[rust]

Looking at my notes, it seems that my Thule colony could well become a socialist realm.

Both the knights of the Pruthenic Order and the Franciscans have a vow of poverty, allowing

them to have as private property only what personal equipment they need, but keeping land

and other assets and resources as common property of their entire community. And it seems

that the Baltic settlers could well have had a somewhat similar concept, with the village com-

munity as the owner of at least some of the land, assets and resources.

[soltakss]

You could do it that way, but land held in common is likely to be grabbed by the powerful.

The Order could own all the land itself. That way, the people could farm the land as tenants or vassals of the Order, owing feudal allegiance to the Grand Master. There's no problem with nobles grabbing the land the land would effectively be held on common, but held by the Order for the common good.

[rust]

The Order could own all the land itself. That way, the people could farm the land as tenants or vassals of the Order, owing feudal allegiance to the Grand Master. There's no problem with nobles grabbing the land the land would effectively be held on common, but held by the Order for the common good.

Thank you very much, a good idea.

[rpgstarwizard]

I was, fora while working on the Voyages of St Brendan, asa plot device to bring players to the new world, might be of interest.

[rust]

As for the roleplaying system, there is not much to do for this setting, the existing rules seem

to work well enough.

I think I will only introduce two new skills, Seamanship (the skill to operate a sailing ship like

the order's cog) and Stewardship (the combination of household skills of a typical housewife of

the period), plus the Knowledge (Thule) skill mentioned in a previous post.

Knowledge (Thule) will cover the knowledge about the colony and its people, the land and the

basic survival techniques necessary in the cold North. This skill will start at 01 %, and then go

up both through simply living on Thule (+ 19 % after the first year there, + 10 % after each of

the following years, until 60 % are reached) and through experience during adventures. Once

the 60 % are reached, only experience can further improve the skill.

Later in the campaign there will be a few more new skills, for example the Languages of the va-

rious native tribes and the new technologies the colonists can learn through their contact with

these natives, for example Drive (Dog Sled) or the weapon skill Harpoon.

The professions of this campaign will be Knight of the Order, Noble Woman, Franciscan Monk,

Scholar, Peasant, Fisherman and Sailor; Tribesman will only be used for the native NPCs.

During the campaign there may well be added some additional professions, but at the beginning

this will be the entire "cast".

The only major rules system I will add to the standard rules are the seafaring rules from Harn-

master, although not in all of their detail. A minor addition will be some of the ideas from the hun-

ting, fishing, sealing and whaling rules of Harnmaster to give these activities a little more depth

and colour.

Oh, and of course the "deniable magic" (I like that term) rules mentioned in the other thread.

With the system mostly out of the way, I am currently trying to define and describe the cultures

of the colony, the special mix of German culture, Baltic culture, knightly order and monastic or-

der - everything from life stations (birth, childhood, marriage, burial customs ...) to common

technologies (architecture, crafts, transportation ...) and hobbies.

I do not want to go into a lot of detail with this, just to note what I need to describe the every-

day life in the Thule colony to the players.

Edited June 17, 2010 by rust
Grammar

[rust]

I was, fora while working on the Voyages of St Brendan, asa plot device to bring players to the new world, might be of interest.

Indeed, and I would be most interested in this.

[Agentorange]

Harnmaster gives a price of 150 d for a walrus tusk and about 750 d for a narwhale "horn"

(and a lot of man-days of food for the carcasses), and for example 24 d for a seal skin.

On the other hand, the resources the colony has to import are rather inexpensive. Iron costs

only 2 d per 20 pounds, charcoal 3 d per 50 pounds, salt 8 d per 20 pounds (at about 150 %

of the normal prices for these commodities). A crossbow comes at 60 d, a sword at 180 d, a

(non-illuminated) manuscript at 30 d, a sheep at 12 d, a riding horse at 360 d.

gin of the merchant, sealing and whaling obviously is a sufficient (alt

hough somewhat dange-

rous) way to keep the economy of the colony going well.

Well, bear in mind these are harn master prices. also is iron so cheap simply because it is so plentiful at that source or geographical location. Once you've trnasported a cargo of finished weapons across 3,000 odd miles of ocean sthrough terrible storms dodging icebergs, whales and sea serpents on the way the price is going to be considerably higher when you arrive....

And of course if a bunch of traders managed a monopoly they could charge pretty much what they like....

[rust]

Well, bear in mind these are harn master prices. also is iron so cheap simply because it is so plentiful at that source or geographical location. Once you've trnasported a cargo of finished weapons across 3,000 odd miles of ocean sthrough terrible storms dodging icebergs, whales and sea serpents on the way the price is going to be considerably higher when you arrive....

And of course if a bunch of traders managed a monopoly they could charge pretty much what they like....

Yep, I will modify the prices accordingly.

In the end the colony will earn just enough through trade to pay for the vital imports, for exam-

ple things like charcoal and iron. Everything beyond this will require some kind of adventure.

An example could be the find of a huge iron meteorite on a far away glacier and the task to mo-

ve it to the settlement before (or, if I am in a nasty mood, after) the natives decide that the sto-

ne that fell from heaven is something holy and protect and defend it.

The "monopoly problem" will surely become a part of the campaign, because whoever controls

the sea route from Thule via Iceland to Bergen in Norway also dictates the prices.

This could be a good opportunity for a diplomatic adventure to create an alternative trade rou-

te, for example the one from Thule to the Gaelic Lordship of the Isles - potentially with some

unexpected consequences, like a maritime trade war.

[soltakss]

It's a shame you don't have the seafaring rules from RQ3, they are simple and work reasonably well. Mongoose has something similar in Pirates, but focused on the High Seas.

Long distance trading is always a problematic issue. A GM needs to think about the cost of the voyage, this is the sum of the wages of all the crew, the equipment used, the cost of overhauling and repairing a boat and the cost of all food and drink used on the voyage. Add to this the cost of the items to be traded, the cost of the ship itself (spread over several years), the capital to be used for the next voyage and the profit involved. Divide this amount by the goods in the hold and you have the cost of those goods. This is assuming that all ships get through, so you have to build in an amount to cope with the fact that some ships will be lost. A spreadsheet could be handy when doing the calculations.

Don't forget, as well, that many islands and kingdoms have state-operated monopolies for different items traded. So, the fact that someone could bring in iron does not mean that they can always sell it. I'd guess that the Order would buy up all iron, leather and wood at a fixed and non-negotiable price, since their armourers would need them to make weapons and armour. Anything else could be traded normally. Rival merchants might have trouble breaking the monopoly and trading with them might be thought of as smuggling.

[rust]

Thank you very much for these ideas.

Long distance trading is always a problematic issue. A GM needs to think about the cost of the voyage ...

This is why I decided to use the Harnmaster rules for this, the Pilot's Almanac has all those da-

ta, down to the provisions of the crew. The system is a bit more complex than I would like, but

for the purpose of this campaign I only have to calculate the average voyage costs of one cog

and one carrack, and can then use these standard values for all of the voyages.

According to the generic "Grain to Gold" supplement the price of a commodity in a "distant city"

should be about 600 % of the price in the local market, and from my calculations so far I get

very similar figures. If the colonists sell their goods on Iceland for local market prices and buy

their imports at 600 % of their prices in Norway, the situation comes very close to what I am

aiming for - enough trade income to get by and slowly expand and improve the colony, but

luxuries require special adventures.

Don't forget, as well, that many islands and kingdoms have state-operated monopolies for different items traded.

It seems that the Hanseatic League had a kind of economic stranglehold on the Norwegian sea

trade from Bergen at the time, this is sometimes cited as a reason why the Norwegian economy

was comparatively weak during this period, and I will try to figure the "monopoly problem" into

my campaign's economy - perhaps including some adventurous "state sponsored smuggling"

by the colony.

[sdavies2720]

I thought about this, but I am still not sure how to handle it, because there seem to be two pro-

blems: The Thule colony does not really have a colonizing nation as its background, the Grand

Master acts without any authorization or mission, and since these knights of the order are un-

der suspicion of heresy, it could be quite difficult to find someone able and willing to appoint a

bishop - who then would immediately come into conflict with the order, the Pope, or both.

As it is, the Grand Master probably could declare himself the prince of an independent state on

Thule, where the land is currently not owned by anyone else (although Norway probably has so-

me claims), and then start to look for a (not too) powerful monarch as the colony's protector.

I would think in this situation, the Grand Master might need a little more legitimacy. So, he might declare himself Bishop.

That way, all is right and proper, no one has reason to challenge his rule -- it's the way it's always done. Until folks arrive from the church and dispute it. Nice subtheme or roleplaying opportunity there.

Steve

[rust]

I would think in this situation, the Grand Master might need a little more legitimacy. So, he might declare himself Bishop.

It would be an option, although a dangerous one, because the Grand Master is not even a

priest, and at this time in history the Popes had already begun their conflict with the world-

ly powers to gain the sole right to invest bishops.

A layman declaring himself bishop could be a way to make the Pope and all of his followers

very, very angry and to become excommunicated very quickly, and the subjects of an excom-

municated ruler do no longer have to obey him, even deposing and killing him outright would

be considered a very minor sin by the Pope's church.

With this background, I think declaring himself a Prince would be less dangerous, especially

if he then tries to become a vassal of some far away king, for example that of Norway, who

would be pleased to have some more subjects and get a little tribute each year, but who does

not have the means to meddle in the affairs of the colony.

[soltakss]

Excommunication is no big deal.

Several Holy Roman Emperors were excommunicated, as were Kings Henry II and John of England and several kings of France.

All you need do to get back in the Pope's good books is do a bit of penance, maybe found an abbey and promise to be a good boy.

Being excommunicated actually has its advantages - King John actually consfiscated a lot of Church property and appointed bishops and priests, at a charge, he even ransomed all the priests' concubines.

But YEWV.

[rust]

Excommunication is no big deal.

It depends a lot on the stability of a realm and the loyalty of a ruler's subjects. For Henry IV the

excommunication proved to be a desaster, it ripped apart his realm in revolt and forced him to

go to Canossa and beg on his knees for the Pope's mercy - probably the most humiliating situa-

tion any of the emperors ever suffered.

For a Grand Master of a knightly order an excommunication could damage the religious base of

his position and authority, and with a newly founded colony inhabited by people of different cul-

tures the stability of his realm and the loyalty of his subjects are somewhat uncertain.

Of course, he could take the risk, but I think he would prefer to avoid any additional trouble with

an organization as powerful as the church while the colony is still in its early years, and would

therefore take the other path and declare himself a princely ruler.

[rust]

Oops, while rolling for the background events of the colony my dice just sank the colony's only

seagoing ship, killing eleven of the sailors, just nine years after the colony was founded.

I hope the characters have managed to convince someone to establish a sea route to Thule un-

til then, because otherwise the colony will have a serious problem: To get the wood required

to build a new ship, they would need a ship for a woodcutting trip to the Forest Coast ...

On the other hand, having the colonists waiting and hoping for someone to visit and help them

could make for an interesting situation, with the stores of vital imports shrinking, tensions con-

cerning the distribution of what is left rising, and all that.

[sdavies2720]

Oops, while rolling for the background events of the colony my dice just sank the colony's only

seagoing ship, killing eleven of the sailors, just nine years after the colony was founded.

Bad luck! This was sounding like a great game -- too bad the colony died. What are you going to do for your next campaign?

[rust]

Bad luck! This was sounding like a great game -- too bad the colony died. What are you going to do for your next campaign?

You know, there is this small tribe of primitive arctic hunters the last surviving women among

the colonists fled to and married into, and ...

Well, at least the other background event rolls were a little more kind to the characters.

In 1244 the characters will get an opportunity to solve the mystery of the disappeared Norse

settlers during a voyage to the Forest Coast, where a little successful diplomacy could convin-

ce some of the native Naskapi to lead the characters to the ruins of the last Norse settlement.

The Pope will dissolve the Pruthenic Order in 1246 and give all of its remaining property to the

Teutonic Order, but Grand Master Wenzel von Taube and his few remaining followers will es-

cape with the rest of the order's treasure to Norway and wait for the colony's ship there, while

the majority of the order's knights will decide to stay in Prussia and become Teutonic Knights.

Otherwise nothing spectacular, only minor events - no plague, no invasion, no natural desaster.

And if the characters manage to convice the King of Norway or the Hanseatic League in 1246 to

sign a treaty with the colony and to send one trade ship per year from Bergen via Iceland to

Thule, the loss of the colony's ship in 1249 will at least become no "total colony kill".

[Agentorange]

Mind you it gives the colonists a cracking good reason to build their own ship and sail back in the other direction......

[rust]

Mind you it gives the colonists a cracking good reason to build their own ship and sail back in the other direction......

Unfortunately it will take quite a while before I will see what the characters will come up with

to deal with the problem. The campaign will not start before late summer, and with a first ad-

venture in the game year 1240 AD and about two adventures per game year the loss of the

ship in the game year 1249 AD is still distant future ...

[rust]

Bookkeeping Day ...

The Thule colony will need about five years to become able to sustain itself, and until then the

order will have paid approximately 70,000 d (silver pennies) for livestock, equipment, materials,

provisions and so on. This does not include wages, because knights of the order have that vow

of poverty and do not get paid, but a nice sum put aside for ... ah ... non-public financial contri-

butions to the personal economies of certain influential officials.

These 70,000 d are just the basic expected expenses, whatever the characters or NPCs decide

to buy beyond that will have to be added. There is some money left for such additional purcha-

ses, the order will still have about 35,000 d in precious metals and gems after the basics have

been paid for. This may seem a lot of money, but in fact it is approximately 140 d per colonist,

while a horse costs 360 d (without sea transport) and a sword 500 d.

The nice part is, when the Teutonic Order takes over the order's property in 1246, they will dis-

cover that the order's chests are empty and its holdings have lost everything that could be use-

ful on Thule and could be transported there - including craftsmen and the most skilled married

peasants.

While this will enable the Thule colony to sustain itself, the Teutonic Order will have to invest a

lot of money to rebuild its new holdings to the point where they will again create any profit. I

suspect this will be sufficient to turn the Teutonic Order into the Thule colony's worst enemy on

the continent, with good opportunities for sideline adventures whenever the characters visit Eu-

rope for diplomacy or trade.

[Agentorange]

Rust,

I found this at Noble knight games, I have no idea if it's of any use to you but thought you might be interested. Ignore the lurid cover- Avalanche press seemed to have a bit of a fetish about that sort of thing

http://www.nobleknight.com/ProductDetail.asp_Q_ProductID_E_14940_A_InventoryID_E_2147595706_A_ProductLineID_E_2137417476_A_ManufacturerID_E_110_A_CategoryID_E_12_A_GenreID_E_

[rust]

I found this at Noble knight games, I have no idea if it's of any use to you but thought you might be interested.

Thank you very much, it is definitely worth a closer look.