Questions about Fighting Maneuver

[roxas]

Hello all!

After being unsuccessful in the reddit subforum, I'm trying again here in the hope of getting advice.

It's about the Fighting Maneuver.
Disclaimer: I know that the rules are not very detailed in this regard, in order to leave as much room for interpretation as possible for the keepers. However, after a lot of research (online and in the rulebook), I still think that I must have overlooked things that should be written out. But I'm babbling too much, so here are a few examples of what I don't really understand:

1. A PC was taken into a hold by an NPC in the first round of combat (fighting maneuver). The second round starts with the PC but I wonder what possibilities the PC has now apart from fighting his way free with a fighting maneuver? Fleeing is pretty clearly out of the question. Attacking, although he is in the hold, i.e. without freeing himself, with the sole aim of injuring the NPC, is that possible? Difficult to justify with logic.
No matter which action the PC chooses, does the PC get a penalty die AND the NPC a bonus die or just one of the two?
Let's say he decides to get free and succeeds in his Fighting Maneuver, then it's the NPC's turn again, who can then grab him again, correct?

2. A (N)PC has basically two possibilities to escape from a grapple: In his own turn and when the person holding him has his turn and the PC can then escape by his "counter-reaction", correct?

3. Let's say the PC is again held in a hold and he fights against 3 NPCs. One is holding him, two are free. He tries to escape from the hold when it is his turn and fails. Now it is the turn of the two remaining NPCs to beat the PC. How do you deal with this? They get bonus dice, that much is clear. I'd probably still let them roll the dice too (a fumble and an accompanying punch to the one holding the PC is best Bud Spencer comedy), but is the PC allowed to roll a counter-reaction? Dodge and/or counter punch? Does this make sense or is the PC able to do this if he is held?... Fighting Maneuver wouldn't make sense as an option, would it?  Does the PC also get a penalty die here (in addition to the attackers' bonus die s. 1.)?

I can well imagine that not every question is fully formulated in the rulebook, but to my knowledge it is not even written what options an investigator has when successfully held in a hold....
Or have I missed something in the rulebook?

[Grimmshade]

It gets even more confusing when looking at monster stats, because they usually have someone rolling opposed Str or Dex to escape a monsters grapple maneuver. 

Anyway, I'm pretty sure it's not entirely clarified in the rules, but I do remember seeing a large FAQ or interview somewhere about combat they might cover it. 

IIRC, a maneuver can either give a bonus die or a penalty die, so for grappling I usually give a penalty die to the grappled. They basically can't do too much except try to escape or try to harm the grappler, both with the penalty die. When someone attacks them, they can fight back or dodge, but again with the penalty die. This is just how I do it, not necessarily correct. 

[Grimmshade]

Here's the interview I was thinking about, but I'm not sure it answers the question:

https://morganhua.blogspot.com/2017/06/call-of-cthulhu-7th-ed-combat-q.html?m=1

[1d8+DB]

My opinion, in Case #3, is  that the held character is only given one chance to break the grapple that round. If she doesn't break the hold,  she cannot  take ANY action, including defensive actions, for that round. This is the point at which your attackers  deliver a merciless beat-down. 

[Grimmshade]

That does make total sense. I'd allow an attempt to break out as the grappled persons action, and a second attempt if the grappler takes any action against the grappled (to simulate a reversal). I do agree that the grappled probably shouldn't be able to take any other action besides break free or maybe reversal. 

Would they get the usual penalty die?

[1d8+DB]

It's been a while since I've read  the 7ed. rules, but if I remember correctly combat should be treated a near simultaneous 'exchange'.

So, at the beginning of the round, Lady Luckless is being held by a Cultist. She attempts to break his hold,  which immediately triggers his reaction: he's not letting go. If there's a clear Pass/Fail in the results, then what happens is pretty obvious.

If both succeed, or both fail, I would think one of the following outcomes would be likely:

• Lady Luckless frees herself, but incurs another disadvantage: she falls, she looses the knap-sack holding the dynamite, etc.
• Lady Luckless frees herself, but incurs damage.
• Lady Luckless doesn't free herself, but gains advantage; she shifted herself and her captor closer to the door, she gets one arm free, etc.
• Lady Luckless doesn't free herself, but manages to injure her captor.

I would probably ask the Players what outcome they would most like to see; that, within reason,  would allow for maximum 'fun'.

But again,  I could probably do with some refresher time with the rules.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by 1d8+DB