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Age of Arthur BRP


Bleddyn

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I am hoping to create it in a team approach.

I suspect this is a bit too far in time from my usual "playgrounds", so I would not be able to

contribute anything useful. However, I would very much like to see this project develop. :)

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

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okay changing gears in the thread.... Brp with or without hit locations?

I feel a compulsion to vote for hit locations. You just can't have Arthurian fantasy with

:P

One more thing to bear in mind is that Pendragon 5.1 is coming out soon from Nocturnals. I see that as another reason to focus less on the Arthurian mythos aspects and more on an Early Medieval Britain sourcebook/campaign/whathaveyou.

If you do have plans to sell the book, even if the money is donated to charity, I'd start opening a line of communication to Chaosium. Even if you plan on giving it away free and clear, I'd still open a line to Chaosium. If you do that now, before you ever get started, they might be willing to host the finished freebie on their website and help it reach an even wider audience. As for licensing, I'd look into it. BRP is not OGL, but Chaosium has made efforts to make a license affordable. There's a sample contract in the downloads sections. As you can see the licensing is very cheap, especially for PDF products.

Edited by cjbowser
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Damon

Darth Vader is my Daddy! I have 1-4th ed Pendragon and last night I was looking it over just to see if I was trying to re-invent wheel. I think I am going to go forwardwith it. Pendragon just doesn't suit my taste.

In might a man, a youth in years, Of boisterous valour, Swift long-maned steeds under the thigh of a handsome youth ...Quicker to a field of blood, than to a wedding quicker to the ravens' feast

- Y Gododdin

"The soldier knows little of philosophers but in him and in his deeds life expresses itself more profoundly than any book can"

- Ernst Junger

E3b1a2 V13 V36

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I feel a compulsion to vote for hit locations. You just can't have Arthurian fantasy with
:P

One more thing to bear in mind is that Pendragon 5.1 is coming out soon from Nocturnals. I see that as another reason to focus less on the Arthurian mythos aspects and more on an Early Medieval Britain sourcebook/campaign/whathaveyou.

If you do have plans to sell the book, even if the money is donated to charity, I'd start opening a line of communication to Chaosium. Even if you plan on giving it away free and clear, I'd still open a line to Chaosium. If you do that now, before you ever get started, they might be willing to host the finished freebie on their website and help it reach an even wider audience. As for licensing, I'd look into it. BRP is not OGL, but Chaosium has made efforts to make a license affordable. There's a sample contract in the downloads sections. As you can see the licensing is very cheap, especially for PDF products.

thanks ... I think the consensus is to do a peiod supplement.

In might a man, a youth in years, Of boisterous valour, Swift long-maned steeds under the thigh of a handsome youth ...Quicker to a field of blood, than to a wedding quicker to the ravens' feast

- Y Gododdin

"The soldier knows little of philosophers but in him and in his deeds life expresses itself more profoundly than any book can"

- Ernst Junger

E3b1a2 V13 V36

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Wow - this thread grew fast!

I would like to throw in a couple of comments.

I think all the discussion of Arthur has been a bit of a red herring. This discussion began with a desire to recreate the world of the Gododdin in a game, and that's something I could support. Whether Arthur existed, when he existed, and where he lived and operated are still completey speculative, despite the fact that I have about 10 books on my shelf all claiming to reveal the real Arthur. Personally, I would cut him out of the equation altogether, or at most give a brief mention summarizing the many theories surrounding the man.

What I would like to see is an effort to describe Britain c.500-600AD that is as historically accurate as possible. I know that we don't know a lot about the period, but we know enough to begin a re-creation, and can surely fill in the blanks without resorting to high medieval romance. So give me your hill forts, roman ruins, and roman artifacts handed down from generation to generation (a Roman Crossbow was found in a Crannog somewhere near Ayr, Scotland). Tell me what the political divisions were, what cultures lived where and what languages were spoken. Tell me what the weapons were. Give me what is known about history and leave the unknown for the GM to fill in. Give me some sense of what pagan celtic religion was like, and then tell me about Candida Casa, Padraig, and Colm Cille and other early Christian sites/priests, for surely Christianity was more widespread at this time than Druidism. Give me specific places and placenames - tell me about Din Phris, Din Rheged, Trimontium, Alt Cluit, and Din Eidyn in the north, and don't just focus on the old Brittish-Saxon conflict in the south.

I think there's a lot of ground to cover here without worrying about trying to emulate Chivalry or Arthurian Myth.

Couple of other points:

There's nothing un-cinematic about hit locations. When heroes in movies get injured, they get injured somewhere. My feeling is that you should include hit locations in any stats you give as they can easily be dropped by those who don't want to use them. Using CON+SIZ for tallying hit points is also probably the way to go.

Regarding Cults: I imagine there would be 3: the cult of Christianity, the cult of the old religion, and possibly (and very rarely) some adherence to old Roman cults here an there. I would probably be inclined to keep magic to a minimum.

Whatever you choose to do, though, I wish you luck with it. I'll be watching with interest.

Cheers!

Thalaba

"Tell me what you found, not what you lost" Mesopotamian proverb

__________________________________

 

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If we're going "real" Dark Ages Britain, don't neglect the "real" folk and mythological critters lurking in the dark woods: Cornish giants, refined ogres who masquerade as human landowners, pixies who lead the unwary astray,short folk who like to kidnap musicsians, women and children, down-at-the-heels Roman deities, female humanoids in dark pools that like to snatch kids. Howardian Little-People-Who-Were-Once-Men might be fun, too.

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Wow - this thread grew fast!

I would like to throw in a couple of comments.

I think all the discussion of Arthur has been a bit of a red herring. This discussion began with a desire to recreate the world of the Gododdin in a game, and that's something I could support. Whether Arthur existed, when he existed, and where he lived and operated are still completey speculative, despite the fact that I have about 10 books on my shelf all claiming to reveal the real Arthur. Personally, I would cut him out of the equation altogether, or at most give a brief mention summarizing the many theories surrounding the man.

What I would like to see is an effort to describe Britain c.500-600AD that is as historically accurate as possible. I know that we don't know a lot about the period, but we know enough to begin a re-creation, and can surely fill in the blanks without resorting to high medieval romance. So give me your hill forts, roman ruins, and roman artifacts handed down from generation to generation (a Roman Crossbow was found in a Crannog somewhere near Ayr, Scotland). Tell me what the political divisions were, what cultures lived where and what languages were spoken. Tell me what the weapons were. Give me what is known about history and leave the unknown for the GM to fill in. Give me some sense of what pagan celtic religion was like, and then tell me about Candida Casa, Padraig, and Colm Cille and other early Christian sites/priests, for surely Christianity was more widespread at this time than Druidism. Give me specific places and placenames - tell me about Din Phris, Din Rheged, Trimontium, Alt Cluit, and Din Eidyn in the north, and don't just focus on the old Brittish-Saxon conflict in the south.

I think there's a lot of ground to cover here without worrying about trying to emulate Chivalry or Arthurian Myth.

Couple of other points:

There's nothing un-cinematic about hit locations. When heroes in movies get injured, they get injured somewhere. My feeling is that you should include hit locations in any stats you give as they can easily be dropped by those who don't want to use them. Using CON+SIZ for tallying hit points is also probably the way to go.

Regarding Cults: I imagine there would be 3: the cult of Christianity, the cult of the old religion, and possibly (and very rarely) some adherence to old Roman cults here an there. I would probably be inclined to keep magic to a minimum.

Whatever you choose to do, though, I wish you luck with it. I'll be watching with interest.

Cheers!

Thalaba

The magic in my opnion needs to be subtle.

attachment.php?attachmentid=409

In might a man, a youth in years, Of boisterous valour, Swift long-maned steeds under the thigh of a handsome youth ...Quicker to a field of blood, than to a wedding quicker to the ravens' feast

- Y Gododdin

"The soldier knows little of philosophers but in him and in his deeds life expresses itself more profoundly than any book can"

- Ernst Junger

E3b1a2 V13 V36

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If we're going "real" Dark Ages Britain, don't neglect the "real" folk and mythological critters lurking in the dark woods: Cornish giants, refined ogres who masquerade as human landowners, pixies who lead the unwary astray,short folk who like to kidnap musicsians, women and children, down-at-the-heels Roman deities, female humanoids in dark pools that like to snatch kids. Howardian Little-People-Who-Were-Once-Men might be fun, too.

agreed

In might a man, a youth in years, Of boisterous valour, Swift long-maned steeds under the thigh of a handsome youth ...Quicker to a field of blood, than to a wedding quicker to the ravens' feast

- Y Gododdin

"The soldier knows little of philosophers but in him and in his deeds life expresses itself more profoundly than any book can"

- Ernst Junger

E3b1a2 V13 V36

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Thank you for the interesting map. :)

The regions in central Scotland with their names in light brown (e.g. Fortriu) are Pictish ?

yes

In might a man, a youth in years, Of boisterous valour, Swift long-maned steeds under the thigh of a handsome youth ...Quicker to a field of blood, than to a wedding quicker to the ravens' feast

- Y Gododdin

"The soldier knows little of philosophers but in him and in his deeds life expresses itself more profoundly than any book can"

- Ernst Junger

E3b1a2 V13 V36

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Dumnonii

In terms of territory, the Dumnonii occupied one of the largest regions of Britain, with their territory occupying modern Cornwall, Devon and parts of Southern Somerset. As a peoples, they did not appear to use coins, nor did they have any large settlements which might act as the political centres for the tribe and (until post-Roman times there is no evidence for a dynasty of Dumnonian kings. As a result most commentators believe that the Dumnonii were in fact a confederation of a number of smaller tribes. Archaeological evidence indicates that the Dumnonii lived in small farmsteads, often surrounded by large walls or ramparts. There is also evidence from pottery that the Dumnonii had strong links with Armorica (Brittany) a link that was maintained well into post-Roman times.

Interestingly, the Dumnonii seem to have presented little resistance to the Roman conquest and as a result the region was never heavily garrisoned. This may be one of the reasons that the Dumnonii never fully-adopted the Roman way of life. The Romans granted them civitas status and their administrative centre was at Isca Dumnoniorum (Exeter). In post-Roman times the Dumnonian line became one of the most important of the Brythonic royal houses and many of the early Brythonic kings (including Arthur) claim descent from this royal lineage.

Durotriges

The territory of the Durotriges was centred around modern Dorset (though it seems also to have included southern Wiltshire and Somerset as well). The Durotriges lived in a mineral-rich area and minted coins well before the Roman invasion. They also had varying burial practices with one group, centred around modern Dorchester employing inhumation (rather than the more typical cremational) cemeteries. This and the lack of any indication of a royal lineage has led to the supposition that the Durotriges were also a confederation of smaller tribes. Although atypical at the time, the Durotriges represent what we think of today as the archetypal Celtic peoples in that they still occupied hillforts. Indeed, many of the most famous hillforts (Maiden Castle, South Cadbury Castle and Hod Hill) were all occupied by the Durotriges.

Though there was a major port at Hengistbury Head in the lands of the Durotriges (from which trade with Gaul was controlled) the Durotriges themselves seem to have been disdainful of these imported goods and tended to use local pottery produced at Poole Harbour. During the time of the Roman invasion the Durotriges put up a spirited opposition, and if Suetonius is to be believed then the Durotriges represent on of the two tribes that fought against Vespasian and the second legion. Despite their opposition, the Durotriges were made into a civitas after the conquest, with an administrative capital at Durnovaria (Dorchester). About half a century later and a second Durotrigian civitas was created, this time administered from Lindinis (Ilchester).

Belgiae

The Belgiae seem to present something of a mystery to us. The name itself is probably Roman, who applied the term Belgiae to almost all the tribes of north-western Gaul. As a result the Belgiae of Britain were probably not a native Brythonic tribe, but rather may represent an influx of peoples from Gaul who were probably not of the same tribe but aggregated together because of shared language and culture.

Even the territory occupied by these Belgiae is something of a mystery. In his Geography, Ptolemy records the territory of the Belgae as including the areas of modern Winchester and Bath as well as an unidentified settlement he called Ischalis. This would seem to give the tribal area a very strange shape and would squash it between the lands of the much stronger Durotriges, Atrebates and Dobunni. Yet, it is known that the administrative capital of the Belgae was at Venta Belgarum (Winchester) so that Ptolemy may be correct. Perhaps the lands of the Belgae represent a carve-up by the extant colonial powers (the Romans) and thus it may well have been an artificial creation (something similar happened to the realm of the Regni, as described below).

Regni

Before the Roman conquest the area of West Sussex occupied by the Regni during Roman times was a part of the lands of the Atrebates. Partly because of existing strong links with Gaul and partly due to the rise of a new ruler (Togidubnus) Chichester and the surrounding area became an important centre in the period just prior to the Roman invasion and also served as one of the bases for the Roman invasion itself. Because of the aid afforded to the Romans by Togidubnus Chichester and the surrounding area became a client kingdom rather than a direct part of the Roman province of Britannia (until Togidubnus' death at least). With the passing of Togidubnus the territory of the Atrebates was split into three separate civitae with the Regni being the civitas centred on Chichester that administered West Sussex. It may be that the Regni were a separate tribe, a client of the Atrebates; though it is equally possible that this 'tribe' is a Roman invention.

Cantiaci

These were the peoples of northern and western Kent (and it is from them that Kent itself derives its name). The Cantiaci had very strong links with northern Gaul and they buried their dead in the Gaulish manner (the burial of cremated remains). It is quite possible that the Cantiaci were an admixture of native peoples and immigrants from northern Gaul, which would certainly explain the links between these peoples. Prior to the Roman conquest the Cantiaci became a member of the large confederation of peoples led by Cunobelinus and after the conquest they became an independent civitas centred around their principal settlement at Durovernum Catiacorum (Canterbury).

Trinovantes

The Trinovantes are first mentioned by Julius Caesar in his de Bello Gallico (on the Gallic Wars), appearing the account of his (abortive) invasion of Britain in 54 BCE. From Caesar's account it seems as if by this time the Trinovantes were already engaged in a power struggle with the neighbouring Atrebates and the tribes that were soon to be forged into the Catuvellauni under the leadership of Tasciovanus to the west. Though there may already have existed some kind of relationship between the Catuvellauni, the Trinovantes and the Cantiaci in that they shared funerary practices, agricultural practices and used money as well as eating from plates and drinking from cups. The king of the Catuvellauni, Cunobelinos eventually forged the Catuvellauni, Cantiaci and Trinovantes into a single large kingdom, establishing Colchester as a new royal site. This was one of the reasons that Colchester became a major target for Claudius' invasion of Britain in 43 CE. However, the alliance was disbanded after the Roman invasion and the Trinovantes were restored as a tribal entity, with a tribal capital at Camulodunum (Colchester).

Atrebates

The Atrebates are another Brythonic tribe that share a name with a Gaulish tribe that inhabited modern-day Belgium. In this case the name of the tribe is suggestive of their nature, as Atrebates can be derived from the reconstructed proto-Celtic elements: *attrebƒ (settlement) and *atē (they who). Thus the Atrebates are 'they who [form] settlements', or more succinctly 'the settlers'. It may well be that the Atrebates were peripatetic by nature, forming settlements as they traversed the breadth of Europe. Of these settlements only the ones in Britain and Belgium survived into historic times. The Belgic and British tribe may well have had strong links even into Roman times. It is certainly true that Commas, leader of the Belgian Atrebates fled to Britain during Julius Caesar's Gallic wars and that a Commius then appears as the ruler of the British Atrebates.

At the time of the Roman invasion they were second only to the Catuvellauni in terms of power and like their neighbours they minted their own coins and had numerous contacts with Gaul. At the height of their power Aterbatian lands stretched from modern-day West Sussex all the way up to Hampshire and Berkshire. The extent of their territory suggests that they were a conglomeration of tribes ruled over by a single dynastic family. Certainly, the peoples subsequently known as the Regni were part of the Atrebates prior to the Roman invasion (see above).

From about 15 BC, the Atrebates seem to have established friendly relations with Rome, and it was an appeal for help from the last Atrebatic king, Verica, which provided Claudius with the pretext for the invasion on Britain in AD 43. Because of the Atrebates' support of the invasion (most notably by their leader, Togidubnus) their region remained an independent client kingdom of the Roman province of Britannia, at least until Togidubnus' death circa 80 CE when the territory of the Atrebates was divided into three civitae with one region going to the Regni, and with Calleva Atrebatum (Silchester) being the administrative centre of the largest part (including modern Berkshire, Oxfordshire, Surrey and Hampshire).

Dobunni

The Dobunni (sometimes known as Dubunni) were amongst the largest tribes of Britannia, with a territory that covered large extents of the Severn Valley and the Cotswolds. They were another tribe that issued pre-Roman coinage and from these coins it can be determined that the Dobunni were divided into northern and southern sub-groupings. The Dobunni were a wealthy agrarian peoples who were already fairly Romanized by the time the Romans invaded. As a result they did not resist the invasion and may well have been amongst the first to submit to Roman rule. After the conquest the Dobunnic settlement of Bagendon in Gloucester (the largest in their territory) was supplanted by the Roman city of Corinium Dobunnorum (Cirencester). Many of the Dobunni did very well from the Roman conquest, as can be attested by the large number of wealthy villas in the region.

As an agrarian peoples the Dobunni seemed to have revered deities of agriculture and fertility above all, which may well explain the large number of dedications to the Genii Cucullati in their territory.

Silures

The Silures were the tribe of the area that now covers the Brecon Beacons and the Valleys of South Wales. Living in the high ground the Silures, unlike their Dobunni relatives offered strong resistance to the Romans. Indeed, between 45–57 CE it is probably fair to say that they led the British opposition to the westwards advance of the Roman Empire. As a result, though we know little of how they lived day to day, many of the leading Roman writers (notably Pliny, Ptolemy and Tacitus) mention them by name. Tacitus describes them as a 'strong and warlike nation', but by the early 60s CE they had been occupied by the Romans. However, the Silures' bitter and concerted resistance may explain why they were only granted self-governing civitas status during the early second century CE with the administrative centre being at Venta Silurum (Caerwent).

Demetae

These were the people of the fertile lands of south-western Wales. Like the Dumnonii they were an agrarian peoples living in small settlements and like most of the other agrarian tribes they both acquiesced to and adapted readily to Roman rule. The only real garrisons in the territory of the Demetae were those on their eastern border, which may well have been there to protect them from the far more aggressive Silures. The tribe was granted civitas status early during the conquest, with its administrative capital at Moridunum Demetarum (Caerfyrddin [Carmarthen]). Like the Dumnonii the Demetae also maintained close links with Armorica (Brittany) well into post-Roman times. The name of the Demetae is derived from that of their patron warrior deity Demetos and it is this deity (and the tribe named after him) that provide the name for the modern Welsh county of Dyfed.

Ordovices

The territory of the Ordovices covered most of what is today mid and west Wales. Their neighbours were the Demetae to the south, the Silures to the east and the Deceangli to the north. They were a war-like peoples living in small fortified farmsteads. After the Roman invasion in 43 CE it was to the Ordovices that Caractacos fled to seek refuge. He managed to stir the Ordovices into rebellion and they successfully resisted the Romans for almost a quarter of a century. It was only in 77–78 CE that the Roman general, Agricola, finally defeated the Ordovices. Unlike the Silures, however, the Ordovices were granted civitas status quite soon after their conquest.

Gangani

The territory of the Gangani covered most of what is today the Llŷn Peninsula in North-West Wales. Their neighbours were the Ordovices to the east. They were seem to have war-like peoples living in fortified farmsteads (a number of these stone-built forts still survive on the Llŷn Peninsula, most notably at Tre'r Ceiri). The tribe shares its name with an Irish tribe who occupied the region now known as Leinster. It seems that the Llŷn Gangani were an offshoot of the Irish Gangani as the name Llŷn is etymologically derived from the same root as the Irish Leinster. After the Roman invasion this tribe was probably kept in check by the garrison of the fort at Pen Llystyn which may well mark the border between the lands of the Ordovices and the Gangani. The name of the tribe is contained in the Roman name for the Llŷn Peninsula, Ganganorum Promontorium, found in Ptolemy's Geography, which literally means 'The headland of the Gangani'.

Deceangli

The Deceangli were the tribe of what today is north Wales and Mona (Môn [Anglesey]). The Deceangli were targeted for conquest as the Romans considered the druids as playing a crucial role in encouraging the resistance against Rome. The centre for British druidry seems to have been in Mona, which is why the island was targeted. However, the Deceangli were a warlike tribe (as detailed in Tacitus' Agricola) and it wasn't until 60 CE (the time of the Boudicca revolt) that Mona was invaded and the druids were slaughtered. The Deceangli were another hillfort people and this may be one of the reasons they Romans for almost seventeen years.

Catuvellauni

Even before the time of Julius Caesar the Catuvellauni were a large and powerful tribe, their territories covering most of modern Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire and southern Cambridgeshire. Allied tribes also probably gave them a foothold in Buckinghamshire and north-western Oxfordshire. The Catuvellauni began minting coins quite early and from these we know that around 10 CE a leader arose, known as Tasciovanus who founded a large royal and ritual centre ad Verulamium (St Albans). Through conquest and alliance he began the process that linked the Catuvellauni, Trinovantes and Cantiaci into a single grouping. This tightening of links between the three tribes (who already shared similar lifestyles and beliefs) culminated in the rule of Cunobelinos. However, after this leader's death (somewhere around the late 30s CE) the kingdom was riven by the rivalries of his successors. This internal strife was used as one of the excuses by Claudius to invade Britain in 43 CE, as the Catuvellauni were one of the most pro-Roman of the British peoples. This probably explains why Verulamium became on of the very first civitae of the new province of Britannia.

Etymologically the name of this tribe can be derived from the reconstructed proto-Celtic elements: *katu- (battle) and *welo- (good) thus the Catuvellauni are those who are 'good in battle'; perhaps with the sense of 'Foremost in Battle'.

Iceni

The Iceni have to be one of the best-known of the Brythonic tribes. As a coin-issuing tribe it is known that the Iceni occupied the modern counties of Norfolk, as well as the major part of Suffolk and eastern Cambridgeshire. The Iceni seems to be an agglomeration of smaller tribes that grew to dominance in the period between 200 and 50 BCE. The various gold hoards obtained from Iceni territories (including the Snettisham torcs) indicate that the Iceni were a wealthy peoples. Unlike their southern neighbours, however, the Iceni seem to have actively shunned contact with the Roman world. This may explain why, when the Romans granted the Iceni the status of civitas they ignored the traditional centres at Snettisham and Thetford and instead founded a new city at Caistor (Norwich). Despite this, the Iceni were initially hospitable to the Roman invaders. So much so that Prasutagus (the ruler at the time) became a client king of the Romans. However, after his death (just as would later happen to the Atrebates) the kingdom was incorporated into the Roman province and a spate of very harsh rule ensued. As a result of these abuses, in 60 CE Prasutagus' widow, Boudicca, led what was to become the most successful revolt against Roman rule in Britain.

Coritani

The Coritani seem to have been a loose confederation of mainly agrarian tribes whose economy seems to have been based predominantly on cattle. Their area of influence stretched from modern Leicestershire up through Nottinghamshire, Lincolnshire and into South Yorkshire. Like most of the other agrarian tribes the Coritani seem to have readily embraced Roman rule. Prior to this point, the Coritani had their own capital at Lindum (Lincoln) and minted their own coinage. After the conquest, the Coritani civitas was governed from Ratae Corieltauorum (Leicester). One reason the the Coritani acquiesced to Roman rule so readily was that the Romans aided in their defence against their more warlike western neighbours, the Brigantes. That the Coritani are a conglomeration of peoples is made more likely by their name which is derived from the reconstructed proto-Celtic *koryo- (troop, tribe) and tank-(j)e/o- (join) thus they are 'the joined tribes'.

Cornovii

Lying at the heart of Britain, the Cornovii civitas had one of the largest of all tribal centres at Viroconium (Wroxeter). Yet, despite this, the Cornovii themselves are shrouded in mystery; however it is likely that the members of this tribe lived in the areas of the modern-day counties of Staffordshire, Shropshire and Cheshire. Etymologically the tribe's name is derived from the reconstructed proto-Celtic *karno- (horn, hoof). Thus the Cornovii are the 'people of the horn'; or perhaps more probably they are the 'people of the horned god'.

Brigantes

It is known from a number of dedications and temple monuments that the Brigantes were actually a federation of many smaller peoples whose territory was centred on the region of the Pennines. At the time of the Roman conquest, some of the smaller tribes that made-up the Brigantes were the Setanti of Lancashire, the Lopacares, the Corionototae and the Tectoverdi of the Tyne Valley and the Textoverdi. Unusually, after the Roman Conquest the Brigantes were formed into a single large cavitate that seems to have covered much of modern-day Yorkshire, Cleveland, Durham and Lancashire. By the first century CE the Brigantes had built a large capital in Stanwick, North Yorkshire.

Like many of the southern tribes, the Brigantes had a defined monarchy and are though to be derived originally from northern Gaul. At the time of the invasion it seems as if they were ruled from Stanwick by Cartimundia, who was pro-Roman, though her husband was anti-Roman. Cartimundia was victorious on this occasion, but over the years the warlike Brigantes revolted several times. The last of these was put down in 79 CE by Ostorius when the Brigantes became a Roman civitas with an administrative centre at Isurium Brigantum (Aldborough in North Yorkshire). Other major Brigantian settlements were at Calcaria (Tadcaster) and Luguvalium (Carlisle), then somewhere around 100 CE the Carvetii broke from the confederation of he Brigantes and were given their own civitas (see below) centred around Carlisle.

Etymologically the Brigantes are the 'people of the goddess Brigantia (her name literally means 'The Highest'. It is likely that in the post-Roman period the Brigantes evolved into the kingdom of Rheged who's last (and arguable greatest) ruler was Urien Rheged.

Setantii

The Setantii are known only from a mention in Ptolemy's Geography where he names a Portus Setantiorus to the north of Moricambe Aestuarium (Morcombe Bay). Though Ptolemy's Portus Setantiorum has never been positively identified, but it is thought to have been located on the Fylde near the mouth of the River Wyre near to the modern fishing town of Fleetwood in Lancashire. This entry in the Geography can be translated as the 'Seaport of the Setantii' and it remains the only positive evidence we have for this tribe's existence. It is likely that they were a sept of the Brigantes who ruled the entire north of England during the Romano-British period. The Brigantes were an agglomeration of many smaller tribes who came under the dominion of a tribal overlord, perhaps based somewhere on the Yorkshire moors, as their civitas capital during the Roman administration was at Isurium Brigantum (Aldborough, North Yorkshire). The larger septs of this tribe included the Parisi of North Humberside and the Carvetii of Cumbria.

Parisii

The Parisii were a small grouping living in the region of modern-day East Yorkshire. Archaeological evidence suggests that the Parisii were primarily agrarian and unusually for a British tribe they buried their dead in large cemeteries. This was not a British practice, but was common in northern Gaul during the same period (300–100 BCE). This has led some to link the Brythonic Parisii with the Parisii tribe of the Paris region in Gaul. Were these two tribes originally related? This is certainly an intriguing possibility, though the question may never be completely resolved. Despite their burial practices, the Parisii in all other respects behaved like their Brythonic neighbours; though they survived as a distinct grouping into Roman times when they were granted the status of civitas with their administrative capital centred upon Petuaria (Brough on Humber).

Carvetii

Originally probably an independent tribe, it seems that the Carvetii had been subsumed into the Brigantes and it was not until around 100 CE when the Carvetii broke from the confederation of he Brigantes and were given their own civitas centred around Luguvalium (Carlisle). The separate identity of this tribe during Roman times may help to explain why the later Brythonic kingdom of Rheged was split into a small northern and a much larger southern regions.

Corionototae

Little is known of the Corionototae tribe, save that they appear to have been a sept (or sub-tribe of the powerful Britantes, rulers of much of Northern England during the Roman period). The Corionototae dwelt in the area around Corstopitum (Corbridge, Northumberland) where they are named in the RIB 1142 altarstone inscription: LEG A... Q CALPVRNIVS CONCESSINI VS PRAEF EQ CAESA CORIONOTOTARVM MANV PRAESENTISSIMI NVMINIS DEI V S (The Legate of the Augustus [...] for cutting-down an armed band of Corionototae, Quintus Calpurnius Concessinius, Prefect of Cavalry, fulfills his vow to the spirit of the most omnipresent god.) The name of the Corionototae would seem to be etymologically, if not tribally related to that of the Irish tribe, the Coriondi.

Novantae

The Novantae remain an almost total enigma as almost nothing of their culture before the Roman invasion has survived. They seem to have inhabited the region of south-western Scotland that in the post-Roman period would become the southern part of the Brythonic kingdom of Ystradclud (Strathclyde). The Novantae seem to have been primarily an agrarian peoples but there is little evidence for their settlements. As a people on the borders between Roman Britannia and Pictland there is little known about these peoples even from the Roman records.

Votadini

The territory of the Votadini seems to have extended from the region of modern-day Edinburgh to Northumberland. Like their neighbours the Brigantes the Votadini seemed to have been formed as a confederation of many smaller tribes. Archaeologically the Votadini are separate from other northern tribes in that they used walls, banks and ditches to surround and defend their farms. They are characterized by offerings of fine metal objects made to the gods, but seem not to have worn the massive amulets which is a feature of the Brigantes.

The Votadini also seem to have employed hillforts, with three massive versions in within the boundaries of their territory being Yeavering Bell, Eildon Seat and Traprain Law. By the time of the Roman invasion these hillforts had probably been in use for at least a millennium. The Votadini are the same people who later became the Brythonic Gododdin (derived from the Old Cymric Gwotodin the Brythonic peoples of he Edinburgh region. The name of the tribe may be derived from the reconstructed proto-Celtic elements: *wo-trīk-e/o- (stay, dwell) (stay, dwell) and *d3no- (fort, rampart). Thus the Votadini are the 'fort dwellers'.

Selgovae

As a tribe dwelling beyond Hadrian's wall little is known about the Selgovae. In his Geography, Ptolemy places the Selgovae in the Southern uplands of Scotland, though the precise extent of their territory is unknown. However, many modern scholars place them in the Tweed Basin, a site adjacent to the Votadini. Roman records tell us that the Selgovae were conquered in 79–80 CE, at the same time as the Votadini. As a result it is not entirely clear whether the Selgovae and Votadini were truly separate peoples or not. If the Selgovae can be considered a separate tribe then their main settlement was probably at Elidon Seat. The tribe's name can be derived from the reconstructed proto-Celtic *selgƒ- (hunt). Thus the Selgovae were 'The Hunters'.

Damnonii

The Damnonii are a tribe that lived in the region of Scotland that today includes Glasgow and Strathclyde. The lands of the Damnonii were conquered by the Romans and occupied continually until the Romans retreated south to the line of Hadrian's wall. Etymologically the name of the Damnonii is essentially a cognate of that of the southern tribe of the Dumnonii. The name of both tribes may be derived from the reconstructed proto-Celtic element: *dubno- (deep, world). Thus the Damnonii/Dumnonii are 'we who are the world'. The land of the Dumnonii in the post-Roman period evolved into the Brythonic kingdom of Ystradclud (Strathclyde) which was sacred to the goddess Clōta.

Epidii

Almost nothing is known about this tribe, save that they lived in the region that corresponds to modern Kintyre and the islands of Arran, Jura and Islay. Later subsuming of this tribe into the Brythonic kingdom of Ystradclud suggests that they were probably a client or (or at the very least allied to) the Damnonii.

Caledonii

Beyond the tribes mentioned already we move into terra incognito as far as the Romans were concerned. Beyond the Strathclyde region we fall off the Roman map and enter the unknown realm. Which is not so say that we know nothing about this region. Ptolemy's Geography gives us the names of many of these tribes (though his geography was often vague) and the northern forays of the Romans during the early days of the occupation does give us some information about a number of the tribes. Foremost amongst these are the Caledones or Caledonii. The Romans used this name both for a single tribe that lived in the valleys between modern Inverness and Fort William and for all the tribes living in the north of Scotland. The various other tribes of this region include the Cornovii and Smertae of Caithness, the Caereni of the western Highlands and the Carnonacae and Creones of the western Highlands. The Vacomagi lived around the Cairngorms.

It seems that a leader called Calgacus arose to unite the warriors from all these disparate tribes at the battle of Mons Graupius in 84 CE. The Romans won the day, but mostly because of the terrain and the weather they were never successfully able to subdue the highlands. Tacitus describes the Caledonii as red-haired and long limbed and the Romans admired these barbarians for their abilities to endure cold, hunger and hardship.

Taexali

This grouping lived in the Grampian region and were agrarian in nature, dwelling in small, undefended, farmsteads. They seem to share much in common with their southern neighbours, the Venicones, but appear to have been a separate people. The Taexali were defeated by the Romans in 84 CE, but dwelling above the Antonine Wall (which became the de facto northern border) they were never permanently occupied.

Venicones

This tribe lived in the region of modern Tayside. The lands of the Venicones were used by the Romans several times to create encampments as they moved northwards, but they were never permanently occupied. From the archaeological evidence they seem to be very similar to the Taexali in that they made offerings of decorated metal objects in bogs and lakes and possessed large amulets which could weigh up to 1.5kg apiece. Like the Taexali the Venicones seem to have been primarily agrarian, though little evidence of their settlements has survived.

Edited by Bleddyn

In might a man, a youth in years, Of boisterous valour, Swift long-maned steeds under the thigh of a handsome youth ...Quicker to a field of blood, than to a wedding quicker to the ravens' feast

- Y Gododdin

"The soldier knows little of philosophers but in him and in his deeds life expresses itself more profoundly than any book can"

- Ernst Junger

E3b1a2 V13 V36

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To Atgxtg

First I want you to know I appreciate your tenacity and sticking to your guns on your convictions and opinions. I respect that. Second I feel Publicly I owe you an apology.... I have a Moderate traumatic brain injury I suffered from an IED in Afghanistan 2006 and I can get moody and snarky ( my wife's words). I hope you continue to express your opinions and take what I say with a grain of Salt.

Sincerely,

Bleddyn

You don't own me anything. This is an open forum where people are able to express their views. If I couldn't handle that, it would be my problem, not yours. We jusst disagree on some things. You haven't been rude, isulting or acted in anyway offensive. In fact, There has been nothing posted in this thread by anyone for me to get offended about. Exasperated, perhaps, but not offended.

So keep posting.

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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Magic .... capitalizing in the divine , wiccan and druid traditions.... Charms, pendants, curses, omen and prayers..... Comments and suggestions? I like the Spell sphere method from Elric!'s Unmapped east... where there is specialization but nothing is out of reach.... Also Christian miracles and charms As I have previously mentioned St. Partick's "Lorica" as a protective charm in combat and in magical contests.

By the way I am getting the Fantasy Grounds II ..... to test this out.... The figure out which system to use BRP (stormbringer) or BRP RQ or Open Quest... I would like some input there from my more learned peers hear. Also volunteers? Time frame to start would be in about two months. From there to start working on a supplement hopefully a fan free one but if it has to be licensed I need to find a charity that would benefit.

I once ran a RQ Celtic campaign. I found that RQ spirit magic worked fine for the typical wards and charms. I used Lunar Magic for Druids, making them a sort of mix of shaman and sorcerer. It seemed to work fine, and is easy enough to adapt into the new BRP magic system, as the common spell system is mostly Spirit magic, although the Elric! version with RQ spell names filed off.

I think one big question would be just how magic rich you want the campaign to be. Do you want a dark and gritty campaign where magic is rare and wondrous, or something with more magic, where every hero seems to have some item or magical power?Both have their merits.

Edited by Atgxtg

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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I once ran a RQ Celtic campaign. I found that RQ spirit magic worked fine for the typical wards and charms. I used Lunar Magic for Druids, making them a sort of mix of shaman and sorcerer. It seemed to work fine, and is easy enough to adapt into the new BRP magic system, as the common spell system is mostly Spirit magic, although the Elric! version with RQ spell names filed off.

I think one big question would be just how magic rich you want the campaign to be. Do you want a dark and gritty campaign where magic is rare and wondrous, or something with more magic, where every hero seems to have some item or magical power?Both have their merits.

That is an excellent question. One which I would like to round table. I think the concept of the lunar magic for druids is a good starting point.

As far as accessability the

In might a man, a youth in years, Of boisterous valour, Swift long-maned steeds under the thigh of a handsome youth ...Quicker to a field of blood, than to a wedding quicker to the ravens' feast

- Y Gododdin

"The soldier knows little of philosophers but in him and in his deeds life expresses itself more profoundly than any book can"

- Ernst Junger

E3b1a2 V13 V36

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Here's a link to a website on the ancient kingdoms of Britain - including maps through the periods: http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/maps/600_kingdoms.html

One of my favorites I have the maps and articles on file.

In might a man, a youth in years, Of boisterous valour, Swift long-maned steeds under the thigh of a handsome youth ...Quicker to a field of blood, than to a wedding quicker to the ravens' feast

- Y Gododdin

"The soldier knows little of philosophers but in him and in his deeds life expresses itself more profoundly than any book can"

- Ernst Junger

E3b1a2 V13 V36

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That is an excellent question. One which I would like to round table.

As far as I understand it, rare and wondrous magic seems to fit the feel of the literature better than a

setting where everyone and his brother and sister can cast spells and carry magic items.

Besides, omnipresent magic could "devalue" the magical abilities of the inhabitants of the Otherworld

as well as the stature of the legendary magic users like Taliesin, whose deeds would become much

less impressive if so many other people could have done the same.

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

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agreed

In might a man, a youth in years, Of boisterous valour, Swift long-maned steeds under the thigh of a handsome youth ...Quicker to a field of blood, than to a wedding quicker to the ravens' feast

- Y Gododdin

"The soldier knows little of philosophers but in him and in his deeds life expresses itself more profoundly than any book can"

- Ernst Junger

E3b1a2 V13 V36

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As far as I understand it, rare and wondrous magic seems to fit the feel of the literature better than a

setting where everyone and his brother and sister can cast spells and carry magic items.

Depends on what literature you go with. In a lot of the welsh stuff that seems to be the primary sources for this thread, "everyone and his brother and sister" seems to have some magical power, ift spells and magic items. Even if half the powers are stupid or nearly useless. Heroic literature if often full of larger than life characters who can do superhuman feats.

Perhaps giving characters a roll to get a POW multiple in points for Powers might be appropriate. Keep the multiple low and you could come up with guys who are slightly superhuman without turning it into a supers game.

I suppose it would depend on how alien/otherworldy you want faerie to be. In the old tales the heroes are what become the fey. In the latter tales, the heroes are more mortal. For a sorcuebook, I'd suggest placing some sort of "slider" on this to cover both types of campaigns.

Besides, omnipresent magic could "devalue" the magical abilities of the inhabitants of the Otherworld

as well as the stature of the legendary magic users like Taliesin, whose deeds would become much

less impressive if so many other people could have done the same.

I think it depends on quality of the magic as well as the quantity. The D&D approach, with everyone haiving a +1 weapon, does cheapen things, but on the other hand, every hero in the litertature seems to have something of note. Usually several things.

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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Damon

Darth Vader is my Daddy! I have 1-4th ed Pendragon and last night I was looking it over just to see if I was trying to re-invent wheel. I think I am going to go forwardwith it. Pendragon just doesn't suit my taste.

Luke, no worries.

I am more than happy with pendragon as a system and would be tempted to use the mechanics over BRP for simplicity. However, BRP has plenty ro make it work too.

Likes to sneak around

115/420

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... but on the other hand, every hero in the litertature seems to have something of note. Usually several things.

I have no problem with this if the hero has to earn this something during the campaign, or if

it is balanced by something like for example a specific geas connected with a magic item, but

I would hesitate to give out lots of powers, spells and items during character creation.

There is also the problem of "power creep" for the adventures, because very powerful charac-

ters also need very powerful opponents, and the more powerful the characters become during

the campaign, the more this spirals into realms where only deities can still provide a challenge

for the heroes.

It is doubtless a matter of taste, but I prefer to begin a character's "hero's journey" at the be-

ginning, when he still is heroic because he voluntarily takes significant risks, and not nearer to

the end, when there is not much left that could endanger him.

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

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It is doubtless a matter of taste, but I prefer to begin a character's "hero's journey" at the be-

ginning, when he still is heroic because he voluntarily takes significant risks, and not nearer to

the end, when there is not much left that could endanger him.

Considering the goal of this thread. It probably would be a good idea if the rulebook incorporated the "hero's journey" as a template for the characters and campaign. I can't think of a better way to ensure a heroic campaign.

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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Don't forget mysterious god-parents who may or may not be human!

----

"I used to own Londinium, I tell you! I was the god of Light and Health and Beauty. Sacrifices were plentiful, the women were beautiful and willing, the wine and oil flowed freely at my altars. I used to BE Somebody!"

"Sure, Apollo, sure. (You drunken, old has-been!)"

"And I still would be, too, if it weren't for those meddling missionaries and their stupid dog!"

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Considering the goal of this thread. It probably would be a good idea if the rulebook incorporated the "hero's journey" as a template for the characters and campaign. I can't think of a better way to ensure a heroic campaign.

Can you elaborate more on your idea of "Hero's journey"? Also I need to pick a system to and start fleshing all this talk out in black and white. I have the OQ OGL SRD. I am leaning more towards a Stormbringer BRP with the option of Including Hit locations.

In might a man, a youth in years, Of boisterous valour, Swift long-maned steeds under the thigh of a handsome youth ...Quicker to a field of blood, than to a wedding quicker to the ravens' feast

- Y Gododdin

"The soldier knows little of philosophers but in him and in his deeds life expresses itself more profoundly than any book can"

- Ernst Junger

E3b1a2 V13 V36

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