Age of Arthur BRP

[Atgxtg]

Can you elaborate more on your idea of "Hero's journey"? Also I need to pick a system to and start fleshing all this talk out in black and white. I have the OQ OGL SRD. I am leaning more towards a Stormbringer BRP with the option of Including Hit locations.

It's not my idea. Joseph Cambell wrote some books (notable The Hero with a Thousand Faces) about the idea that most hero stories are essentially the same. A hero starts off from a mundane existence and how he grows into something more than what he was when he started. One key concept is how the hero's journey, or monomyth is a cycle with certain stages with challenges that each hero faces.

In a nutshell, it is why Star Wars, and the story of King Arthur are a lot alike.

You can get a lot better explanation on this by googling Joseph Cambell, the monomyth, or The Hero With a Thousand Faces.

The concept, and underlying story structure are almost essential for traditional heroic fiction.

[Bleddyn]

I remember Joesph Campbell ..... duh I feel like a dunce now.

[soltakss]

I like the map of post-Roman Britain. I did think that Dal Riada was a little late to appear, but the kingdom starts about 500AD, so it the invasions could be happening during the Age of Arthur period. It gives another area of conflict to add to the mix. At the time, the Irish were busy invading Britannia and had established several coastal kingdoms on the western Welsh coast.

So, we've got the following conflicts:

1. Angles vs Britons (Midlands/Northern England/Southern Scotland)

2. Saxons vs Britons (Southern England)

3. Irish vs Picts (Dal Riada)

4. Irish vs Britons (Welsh Coast)

5. Britons vs Britons (Wales/Cornwall/Cumberland/Strathclyde)

6. Angles vs Angles (Midlands/Northern England/Southern Scotland)

7. Saxons vs Angles (Midlands)

8. Saxons vs Saxons (Southern England)

9. Britons vs Franks (Brittany)

Christianity is strong in Ireland, Cornwall, Wales and Northwest England.

Celtic Paganism is present in Ireland, but has become weak (Saint Patrick cast the Serpents from Ireland), in Caledonia/Pictland (the Picts were never conquered by Rome and never received Christianity), and in the Welsh and Scottish mountains (Rome never really penetrated these areas as deeply as they did in the rest of the country)

Nordic Paganism is present throughout the lands of the Angles/Saxons/Jutes as Christianity hasn't been spread to their lands.

Some Romano-British cults might still be present in some areas, certainly Romano-British deities would be worshipped by isolated communities

[rust]

..... duh I feel like a dunce now.

Welcome to the club, not so many pages back I had to ask what the Y Gododdin was, because

my brain strictly refused to provide an information it surely had stored somewhere ...

[Bleddyn]

To remember J. Campbell I had to go back 20 years...

[rust]

So, we've got the following conflicts:

...

I think you could also add a conflict between those Britons who cherished the Roman "lifestyle" and

institutions, probably mostly in the previously Roman cities, and those Britons who preferred the

traditional "old ways" and wanted to re-introduce them, probably mostly the somewhat more rural

nobility.

[Bleddyn]

I like the map of post-Roman Britain. I did think that Dal Riada was a little late to appear, but the kingdom starts about 500AD, so it the invasions could be happening during the Age of Arthur period. It gives another area of conflict to add to the mix. At the time, the Irish were busy invading Britannia and had established several coastal kingdoms on the western Welsh coast.

So, we've got the following conflicts:

1. Angles vs Britons (Midlands/Northern England/Southern Scotland)

2. Saxons vs Britons (Southern England)

3. Irish vs Picts (Dal Riada)

4. Irish vs Britons (Welsh Coast)

5. Britons vs Britons (Wales/Cornwall/Cumberland/Strathclyde)

6. Angles vs Angles (Midlands/Northern England/Southern Scotland)

7. Saxons vs Angles (Midlands)

8. Saxons vs Saxons (Southern England)

9. Britons vs Franks (Brittany)

Christianity is strong in Ireland, Cornwall, Wales and Northwest England.

Celtic Paganism is present in Ireland, but has become weak (Saint Patrick cast the Serpents from Ireland), in Caledonia/Pictland (the Picts were never conquered by Rome and never received Christianity), and in the Welsh and Scottish mountains (Rome never really penetrated these areas as deeply as they did in the rest of the country)

Nordic Paganism is present throughout the lands of the Angles/Saxons/Jutes as Christianity hasn't been spread to their lands.

Some Romano-British cults might still be present in some areas, certainly Romano-British deities would be worshipped by isolated communities

Solt ....

about Christianity and Northwest.... The conflict surrounding the Throne of Alt Clud and the first real tale of Myrddin going mad in the woods. I would say that christianity is isn't fully rooted. Myrridn is quoted supporting a pagan contender to the throne.

"Welsh poems that concern the Myrddin legend present him as a madman living a wretched existence in the Caledonian Forest. There he ruminates on his former existence and the disaster that brought him low: the death of his lord Gwenddoleu, whom he served as bard. The allusions in these poems serve to sketch out the events of the Battle of Arfderydd, where Riderch Hael, King of Alt Clut (Strathclyde) slaughtered the forces of Gwenddoleu, and Myrddin went mad watching this defeat. The Annales Cambriae date this battle to AD 572, and name Gwenddoleu's adversaries as the sons of Eliffer, presumably Gwrgi and Peredur.

A version of this legend is preserved in a late fifteenth-century manuscript in a story called Lailoken and Kentigern, which probably happened in August 584, after Myrddin, also known as Lailoken, had finished writing his prophecies in July of that year. In this narrative, St. Kentigern meets in a deserted place with a naked, hairy madman who is called Lailoken, although said by some to be called Merlynum or Merlin, who declares that he has been condemned for his sins to wander in the company of beasts. He adds that he had been the cause for the deaths of all of the persons killed in the battle fought on the plain between Liddel and Carwannok. Having told his story, the madman leaps up and flees from the presence of the saint back into the wilderness. He appears several times more in the narrative until at last asking St. Kentigern for the Sacrament, prophesying that he was about to die a triple death. After some hesitation, the saint grants the madman's wish, and later that day the shepherds of King Meldred capture him, beat him with clubs, then cast him into the river Tweed where his body is pierced by a stake, thus fulfilling his prophecy."

[soltakss]

Absolutely.

Christianity is well established in the South. There is a veritable host of 6th Century Welsh, Cornish and Breton Saints, showing how pervasive Christianity had become. Irish Saints had started moving to Scotland and had made Iona their base. Saint Derfel is said to have been one of Arthur's warriors.

However, the further north you go, the less important Rome is. Merlin would have come from Wales (or maybe Ireland) and would have held to the Old Ways quite stringly. If you subscribe to the idea that he was present during the Roman Invasion and planned the combined Saxon/Angle/Pict/Irish invasions of Brittania, then he had been opposing Roman religions, including Christianity, for some time. The Picts were definitely not Christian at this time, so Merlin would have been able to practise his beliefs openly among them.

The Irish Saints spread Christianity through Dal Riada and Pictland at this time. They would meet pagain priests, including Merlin, and would challenge them, driving them away with magical displays or defeating them in logical argument. At least one Celtic Goddess (Brigid the Goddess of the Brigantes) becomes a Christian Saint, probably around this time.

Bear in mind that one of the reasons for the Roman invasion of Britain was the destruction of the Druids who had been agitating against them in Gaul. They also smashed the Druid strongholds on Angelsey. This means that being a Druid in Roman Britain wasn't the best career move, so they moved to Ireland (where there are tales of Druids being active) and Caledonia/Pictland. Their descendants would have been discouraged by the Irish Saints and would have gone to Caledonia or back to the mountains of Wales. After the Romans left, they could try to rebuild their religion, figthing against Christianity in the process.

[ClawCarver]

Blimey! I go to bed, go to work, come home and the thread's doubled in size! Kudos to Bleddyn for kicking off such a stimulating and productive discussion (not to mention stirring up a hornet's nest of strongly held and doggedly defended opinions). There's a lot of great ideas flowing.

I'm also extremely happy and relieved to be able to agree with Atgxtg on something:

Depends on what literature you go with. In a lot of the welsh stuff that seems to be the primary sources for this thread, "everyone and his brother and sister" seems to have some magical power, ift spells and magic items. Even if half the powers are stupid or nearly useless. Heroic literature if often full of larger than life characters who can do superhuman feats.

Absolutely, and I think this is one of the features that could make such a game a lot of fun to play. I'm very keen on the idea of character "gifts" or geasa, but ONLY ones that are stupid or nearly useless. I don't want to be letting my players start their adventures with magic swords as heirlooms or with powerful offensive spells. (They can try to obtain these things through actual play, and probably through contact with the Otherworld, which ties into the Joseph Campbell stuff mentioned above - which is of course the classic fantasy RPG campaign model.) What I would like is to give them random powers with some of the flavour of the old Celtic tales (preternaturally high Track or Harp skill, say, or the ability to go nine days and nights without sleeping) and see what inventive use they make of them.

The question is whether to allow the players to pick their gifts or assign them randomly. I think I'd go the latter route myself.

[rust]

The question is whether to allow the players to pick their gifts or assign them randomly. I think I'd go the latter route myself.

I think I would let the players choose such a gift. A gift of that kind could make some difference

for the early life of a character before the start of the campaign, and a random determination

could therefore well collide with the player's character concept.

[ClawCarver]

I think I would let the players choose such a gift. A gift of that kind could make some difference

for the early life of a character before the start of the campaign, and a random determination

could therefore well collide with the player's character concept.

It's a fair point, well made.

The only thing I'd say is that (in some circumstances and depending on the nature of the campaign) I'm wary of players having too rigid a "character concept" before the game begins. I generally prefer to keep it fairly loosely defined to start with, and let the character take shape as the game progresses. I also just like the idea that you don't get to choose a gift, because it is just that: a gift.

Anyway, there's an easy compromise: a list/table from which character gifts can be randomly rolled, hand-picked, or assigned as the GM pleases.

[Bleddyn]

I need to get the site admin to give us a sub forum to start working this out.

[rust]

Anyway, there's an easy compromise: a list/table from which character gifts can be randomly rolled, hand-picked, or assigned as the GM pleases.

Indeed, and in the end my favourite method would probably be something like "Roll two and

choose one of them".

[Bleddyn]

Looks like we are going to get a subforum to work in. Spoke with the Admin over PM this morning. I have two other interested in working with me ..... or would like to just help round table ideas PM for the password.

Post script

The " Age of Arthur BRP workgroup" has been established for the actual work on the BRP Supplement. Discussion is welcome to continue here ... But in the group I would like to tackle the actual mechanics of fleshing out the idea in black and white. If you want in PM me for the password.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Bleddyn

[seneschal]

So you've scheduled a round table discussion about ... The Table Round?

[Bleddyn]

lol

[Bleddyn]

1. Introduction

2. Background : Synopsis of 425 AD through 790s

2.1 Area/Kingdoms

2.1.1 Romano-British Civitais Kingdoms

2.1.2 Sub-roman Kingdoms of Brittany

2.1.3 Brythonic Kingdoms

2.1.4 Irish Kingdoms

2.1.5 Pitctish Kingdom

2.1.6 Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms

2.1.7 Frankish Kingdom

2.1.8 Visigothic Kingdom of Toulouse

3. Character generation

3.1.1 Anglo-Saxon-Jute

3.1.2 Brythonic/Welsh

3.1.3 Romano-British ( Including Breton/Gallo-Roman)

3.1.4 Pictish

3.1.5 Irish ( Including Scots-Irish)

3.1.6 Visigoth

3.1.7 Frank

3.2 Backgrounds

3.2.1 Warrior

3.2.2 Freeman (Militia-Farmer)

3.2.3 Slave

3.2.4 Priest (Including Druid, Magus, Shaman)

3.2.5 Hunter

3.2.6 Scholar

3.2.7 Bard* (The multi-class rogue-warrior-magus and Jimi hendrix)

3.2.8 Rogue ( brigands, general dirt bags)

3.2.9 Mariner

3.2.10 Craftsman

3.2.11 Noble

3.2 12 Merchant

Skills 4

Magic, Charms and Sorcery 5

Its enough to start on I guess.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Bleddyn

[rust]

As for the Backgrounds, I would add the (post-) Roman "citizen", which would include the civic

officials in the Roman tradition that - as far as I know - still existed in parts of Britain at the ti-

me.

[Bleddyn]

My plan is to lump the concept of citizen in the Romano-British background skills and have it reflected in the skills. How does that sound?

As far as the citizen concepts of Hierarchy I feel it can fall under Scholar, Merchant or Noble

[rust]

My plan is to lump the concept of citizen in the Romano-British background skills and have it reflected in the skills. How does that sound?

As far as the citizen concepts of Hierarchy I feel it can fall under Scholar, Merchant or Noble

Yep, this should work if your definition of Noble includes the bureaucratic positions that are not

hereditary.

[Bleddyn]

Exactly like tribunes and tax collectors, Magistrates etc...

[Bleddyn]

Have you been able to get into the work group yet?.... other were having issues with the password I have written the Admin

Edited June 14, 2010 by Bleddyn

[rust]

Have you been able to get into the work ground yet?.... other were having issues with the password I have written the Admin

I have just tried it, and I also have problems with the password.

[Bleddyn]

Thanks for letting me know

[Bleddyn]

workgroup members check the subforum thread.

I have been tied up with the Movie RESTREPO about my unit (173rd Airborne Brigade) in OEF VIII and getting the National Geographic preview in DC coordinated with veterans groups and old comrades. I was in OEF VI the experience was very similar.

http://restrepothemovie.com

Edited June 18, 2010 by Bleddyn