Squaredeal Sten Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 1 hour ago, Ali the Helering said: The problem with this is that ideas of who and what the Kitori are have varied significantly over the years. How is that a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squaredeal Sten Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ali the Helering said: The problem with this is that ideas of who and what the Kitori are have varied significantly over the years. That's not a problem for me. I'll go with what's current. I was not in the conversation 20 years ago. Guide to Glorantha is 10 years old. Edited June 29, 2022 by Squaredeal Sten Date gtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali the Helering Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 The problem is that that description of the Kitori is not common to all the sources, and they all will feed into many different understandings of what the Guide actually means! Trust me, I'm a theologian. Canon ain't all it's cracked up to be. 😇 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svensson Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 Well, the Guide to Glorantha may be 10 years old, but the starting point. Everything RQG proceeds from what's there. And for what that's worth, it does a good job. It clears up a bunch of the meanderings of the RQ3, Mongoose RQ and HeroQuest stuff. Canon is useful only to a point. Your Glorantha is uniquely yours and mine is mine. The 'canon says this' point is only helpful inasmuch as it shows where someone's logic train started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 1 hour ago, Ali the Helering said: The problem is that that description of the Kitori is not common to all the sources, and they all will feed into many different understandings of what the Guide actually means! The basic/canonical definition/description of the Kitori are that they are a mixed tribe of humans and trolls. This is what I followed when preparing the Heortland book. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Is the Argan Argar Chain still canonical? How does it play out in RQG? Quote ROLAND VOLZ Running: nothing | Playing: Battletech Hero, CoC 7th Edition, Blades in the Dark | Planning: D&D 5E Home Game, Operation: Sprechenhaltestelle, HeroQuest 1E Sartarite Campaign D&D is an elf from Tolkien, a barbarian from Howard, and a mage from Vance fighting monsters from Lovecraft in a room that looks like it might have been designed by Wells and Giger. - TiaNadiezja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squaredeal Sten Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, AlHazred said: Is the Argan Argar Chain still canonical? How does it play out in RQG? Yes. p.381 of Guide to Glorantha, listed as one of the underground organizations of Safelster. if it's in there it's canon. Don't know how it plays out as I have not played in Ralios. However Argan Argar is the god whose cult are intermediaries between Uz and other races, not just the cult of Uz traders. So it should not be strange at all for AA to have trade relations with non-trolls. The human and Uz economies are actually linked. In the Glorantha i lobby for, the Uz areas don't need to be close to each other to have trade. A lot of what AA merchants carry should be unique Uz products that humans want. For detail on this, see https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/15314-argan-argar-or-troll-trade-goods/ Take the Uz away and some of the luxuries of life will disappear. Edited June 30, 2022 by Squaredeal Sten take the Uz away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 The Kitori are pretty easy to get a handle on once you realise that the term changed over time. At this time - the Third Age - the term Kitori refers to the tribe of humans and trolls that inhabit the Troll Woods. TROLL WOODS This forest in the foothills of the Storm Mountains has large stands of pines, firs, and other conifers, with a dark undergrowth of ferns. The Kitori Tribe in the Troll Woods is a peculiar one, for it includes a troll part and a human part, each equal to the other, though they do not interbreed. The tribe includes some 3,000 humans, 1,000 dark trolls, and 2,000 trollkin. Many, both trolls and human, think the Kitori take the Argan Argar ideals to excess, but outside opinions do not change the tribe’s ways. They eat insects, hunt and gather in the Troll Woods, raid the local humans, and trade with Dagori Inkarth and the Shadow Plateau. About a century ago, the Kitori dominated Volsaxiland and raided caravans going from Wilmskirk to Karse. Prince Tarkalor put an end to this in 1569 when he defeated the Kitori with the aid of the Yelmalio cult and re-established the Volsaxi confederation at Whitewall. The Kitori Tribe maintains a major temple to Argan Argar, and minor temples to Zorak Zoran, Xiola Umbar, and Gorakiki. The human part of the tribe maintains a minor temple to Orlanth Thunderous, while the trolls maintain a major temple to Kyger Litor. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingCatOfDeath Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 hours ago, Jeff said: The Kitori are pretty easy to get a handle on once you realise that the term changed over time. At this time - the Third Age - the term Kitori refers to the tribe of humans and trolls that inhabit the Troll Woods. Are they the descendants of the Only Old One Kitori? Or an unrelated group that had the name applied to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squaredeal Sten Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, FlamingCatOfDeath said: Are they the descendants of the Only Old One Kitori? Or an unrelated group that had the name applied to them? The human Kitori are descendants of Varzor Kitor and whatever other humans went with him into the Only Old One's service. Guide to Glorantha p.235: " The Only Old One offered more than just his protection and friendship; he also offered to teach people the secrets of the Darkness. Few took up his offer until Varzor Kitor accepted and learned the deepest secrets of the Darkness at the feet of the Only Old One. He then taught others and these initiates of the Darkness formed a separate people called the Kitori. The Only Old One favored the Kitori and allowed them to reside with him in the Palace of Black Glass. They served as his envoys to the peoples of Kethaela and Dragon Pass, and he gave them the privilege of collecting the Shadow Tribute. " This would have been back in the Darkness or the Silver Age, the time of the Unity Council. However note that the Only Old One lasted until Belintar killed him approx 1318ST. Belintar first put down the Kitori, who along with the Hendriki fought for the Only Old One - then later found them useful - again as tax gatherers! However this only lasted for about a hundred years. Evidently Belintar did not value the Kitori enough to protect them against prince Tarkalor of Sartar, who used his Yelmalio allies to destroy them (slavery, genocide) as he conquered an outlet to the sea for Sartar. The current day Kitori are only a remnant. " In 1460, Belintar enabled the Kitori tribe of the Troll Woods to impose an ancient tribute upon the kings of Whitewall that broke the power of the Volsaxi until the Sartarite prince Tarkalor Trollkiller defeated the Kitori in 1560 and reestablished the Volsaxing kingdom." (p.241, Guide to Glorantha). Edited June 30, 2022 by Squaredeal Sten added second quote 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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