Switching from Humakt to Yanafal Tarnils

[scott-martin]

1 minute ago, Joerg said:

Katrin's most recent image of Humakt shows a slashing blade with blunted point.

In that scenario not a whole lot changes except I suspect the fighting style becomes more refined. Maybe this pleases them in the great sword schools . . . those who reject it can develop the rapier.

[soltakss]

On 7/12/2022 at 2:59 PM, Godlearner said:

If a PC chooses to pick up the "other sword" and join Yanafal Tarnils cult, what changes if any will need to be made on the character sheet? Rune Pool? Worship skill? Gifts/Geases?

They might lose access to Humakti magic.

However, there is probably a Yanafal Tarnils HeroQuest that allows them to transfer Humakt Rune Pool to Yanafal Tarnils, and a Humakti one for vice versa.

In RQ2, Humakti could cross-train, increasing the Broadsword skill cheaply, by converting the Scimitar skill. I would expect Yanafal Tarnils to have the same kind of thing, maybe not with Scimitars, but with other curved bladed weapons.

So, they would keep their Broadsword skill until the Scimitar, Kopis or whatever skill they had exceeded it and then would use that skill.

They might still retain Sense Undead, especially if Yanafal Tarnils allowed them to keep the Geas.

The same might apply to other Humakti Geases.

They might replace their Humakt Passions with equivalent Yanafal Tarnils ones. However, they might also keep, or rename, the Humakti ones. So, they might keep the Love (Sword of Brightness Temple) Passion but use Loyalty (Yanafal Tarnils) instead of Loyalty (Humakt), or they might gain Disloyalty (Humakt), depending on how they left the cult.

It might be easy to replace Worship (Humakt) with Worship (Yanafal Tarnils), but GMs might prefer to start Worship (Yanafal Tarnils) at half Worship (Humakt), or start Worship (Yanafal Tarnils) at Base chance. It might be a case of cross-training the skill, in the same way as Broadsword, so it takes a bit of time to become familiar with the way that Yanafal Tarnils is worshipped.

Other spells/abilities might be retained or lost, depending on whether they were gained from a SubCult shared between Yanafal Tarnils and Humakt.

Now, to read everyone else's comments ...

 

[PhilHibbs]

I always thought that it was fairly easy for a Humakti to jump ship to YT, almost like it's a secret subcult.

[Godlearner]

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

So, they would keep their Broadsword skill until the Scimitar, Kopis or whatever skill they had exceeded it and then would use that skill.

Yes, I said that his Kopis skill is equal to his Broadsword skill. I'm making him start Scimitar form scratch.

[FlamingCatOfDeath]

21 hours ago, svensson said:

The Lunar Way attempts to replace EVERY non-Lunar deity with a Red Moon counterpart, not 'co-exist'... replace. In their world view all shall be subsumed by the Light of Sedenya or it will be conquered. The Scarlet Harlot would replace Aldrya or Kyger Litor if she could and she's got whole schools of mages doing God Learner type investigations trying to figure out how.

This is just not true. They don’t want to replace Yelm, Dendara, Dayzatar, Gorgorma, the Lowfires, Lodril, Molanni, Ourania, Polaris, and Uleria at the minimum. They only demand that the Old Gods recognize The Red Moon and her rightful place in the cosmos. (which sworn enemies of chaos of course refuse to do)

[svensson]

9 hours ago, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

This is just not true. They don’t want to replace Yelm, Dendara, Dayzatar, Gorgorma, the Lowfires, Lodril, Molanni, Ourania, Polaris, and Uleria at the minimum. They only demand that the Old Gods recognize The Red Moon and her rightful place in the cosmos. (which sworn enemies of chaos of course refuse to do)

And she demands that she be given dominion over the Middle Air... which is entirely unacceptable to Orlanthi generally.

I stipulated that my 'replace' comment is stated from an admittedly Orlanthi point of view, but given how many Old Gods the Lunar Way DOES wish to replace it's not an entirely invalid viewpoint.

[svensson]

19 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Yes, I said that his Kopis skill is equal to his Broadsword skill. I'm making him start Scimitar form scratch.

Yeah, I can see that. A kopis /falcata uses the same basic technique as the broadsword [although the balance points are decidedly different... a kopis has more in common with the later medieval falchion that way]. But a scimitar is lighter [as much as a quarter-pound /0.12 kg], curves the opposite direction, and uses a very different technique to wield.

[Godlearner]

4 hours ago, svensson said:

But a scimitar is lighter [as much as a quarter-pound /0.12 kg], curves the opposite direction, and uses a very different technique to wield.

The interesting thing is the True Scimitar spell that YT gets. I would say it works on Kopis, Scimitars, curved short swords and daggers, maybe even sickles, but not on straight weapons. 

[Lordabdul]

On 7/13/2022 at 2:18 AM, MOB said:

IMG Humakti who switch over to Yanafarl Tarnils get to keep all their gifts (as long as they don't break their geases) and can continue to replenish their rune points at Humakti temples.

[jajagappa]

On 7/13/2022 at 1:51 AM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

By this interpretation, nobody of any significance will ever change cults and sides.  Too huge a penalty. 

This is where Passions come into play.  Yanafal's loyalty (or love?) for Sedenya proved greater and stronger than his Devotion to Humakt.  

 

[Professor Chaos]

This also begs the question of Lhankor Mhy/Irippi Ontor conversions. 

God only knows whether it is still canonical but didn't LM and IO share the Jonstown library during the Lunar occupation? 

Which as the library is a temple implies they could both get all mechanical benefits from the same site.

We also have Etyries and Issaries sharing their great markets/temples. 

Surely the whole point of the Lunar way and particularly that of the Seven Mothers is that they can break the normal rules - although not altogether without consequences (e.g. the sword breaker curse but only on non-curved weapons).

As for whether any YT is allowed to worship and derive benefits from a Humakt temple the logical answer would be to fight a ritual duel and respect the outcome? 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Professor Chaos

[Godlearner]

1 hour ago, Professor Chaos said:

God only knows whether it is still canonical but didn't LM and IO share the Jonstown library during the Lunar occupation? 

I believe the temple was joinedly occupied  in New Pavis.

 

1 hour ago, Professor Chaos said:

We also have Etyries and Issaries sharing their great markets/temples. 

Etyries is Issaries' daughter. The link here is actually much stronger than in other cases.

[Shiningbrow]

4 hours ago, Godlearner said:

I believe the temple was joinedly occupied  in New Pavis.

"is", not was.

[Shiningbrow]

On 7/13/2022 at 6:58 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

geas: use only curved weapon

Just as a point of order, that would exclude spears, maces, axes and arrows....

I'd adjust it to "only use curved swords".

[Nick Brooke]

2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Just as a point of order, that would exclude spears, maces, axes and arrows....

I'd adjust it to "only use curved swords".

That doesn’t help. “Use no straight blades.”

[Rodney Dangerduck]

44 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

That doesn’t help. “Use no straight blades.”

Maybe "no straight swords"?  Cause a lance or spear has (arguably) a straight blade.

[soltakss]

14 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Maybe "no straight swords"?  Cause a lance or spear has (arguably) a straight blade.

The sort of person who asks their Priest this kind of question is noted down as a potential troublemaker.

[Shiningbrow]

2 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

That doesn’t help. “Use no straight blades.”

hmmm... much better than mine!

[Nick Brooke]

Here's what my old writeup said:

Quote

Swordbreaker

As the worshippers of a deified Humakti apostate, followers of Yanafal Tarnils who trespass in the Lands of the Dead can attract the unwelcome attention of Humakt’s spirit of reprisal, the Swordbreaker. Whenever an initiate of the Yanafal Tarnils cult is resurrected, make a POWx3 roll on 1D100: success indicates that the character has been cursed, and can no longer wield any straight-bladed sword without it shattering in his hand. Scimitars [ i.e. Rune Lords] are automatically cursed. The effects of this curse can be entirely avoided by “switching blades”: Swordbreaker no longer has power over scimitars, sickles, and similar weapons.

Which is why I didn't worry about geas wording.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

8 hours ago, soltakss said:

The sort of person who asks their Priest this kind of question is noted down as a potential troublemaker.

True!  Here's more:

1. How do Yanafali shave?  Can they use a straight blade there?
2. Are there Lunar Army Knives?  Still red of course, with a Death Rune, but the whole mechanism is curved?

[soltakss]

24 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

How do Yanafali shave?  Can they use a straight blade there?

It's a tool, not a weapon, so is fine.

25 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Are there Lunar Army Knives?  Still red of course, with a Death Rune, but the whole mechanism is curved?

Of course there are. I have a Tatar knife at home that has a delightful curve, although I wouldn't butter bread with it.

[JRE]

Not only that, but they have versions that serve for both...

[Akhôrahil]

On 7/17/2022 at 11:14 PM, Professor Chaos said:

This also begs the question of Lhankor Mhy/Irippi Ontor conversions. 

And perhaps even more closely, Issaries/Etyries, where I think it’s reasonable if you get to switch (or share) your Rune Points pool.

I also think it makes sense to be allowed to transfer Rune Points if you go from 7M Collective to individual 7M.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[Godlearner]

2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Issaries/Etyries, where I think it’s reasonable if you get to switch (or share) your Rune Points pool.

I am thinking that Etyries can be worshipped as a subcult of Issaries, or as a seperate cult.

2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

makes sense to be allowed to transfer Rune Points if you go from 7M Collective to individual 7M.

Yes, although it may be advantageous for PC not to do that to bypass the CHA limit on Rune Pools. 

[Monty Lovering]

Ok so YT and Humakt are not just different choices. They are hostile and YT is apostate to Humakt  

So that particular swap is world of pain for the H->Y. Sword breaker effects curved swords IMG as look at the compound word ‘curved sword’. RP are lost. Humakti knowing the YT is apostate will at best shun them. Quite possibly challenge them to a duel. They will however be welcomed by YT and maybe helped on the path to a heroquest to be able to use swords again  

YT->H is less bad. RP lost. Humakti will regard them in very high favour. YT will possibly treat them even worse than Humakti treat exHumakt YT apostates. 
 

I grew up a Jehovah’s Witness and know EXACTLY how people get treated by their friends and family if they are considered an apostate so this is very much a deep personal MGV.